I'm being deadly serious. Anyone with a minute degree of common sense would obviously reject No Deal but to do that you have to have a mechanism to stop it and the ultimate mechanism is to allow cancelling Brexit with or without a referendum and both May and Corbyn don't want to cancel Brexit.
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I'm being deadly serious. Anyone with a minute degree of common sense would obviously reject No Deal but to do that you have to have a mechanism to stop it and the ultimate mechanism is to allow cancelling Brexit with or without a referendum and both May and Corbyn don't want to cancel Brexit.
The intention is to try to get cross party consensus using a series of indicative votes in order to more clearly identify what could and could not be acceptable.
One of the big mistakes May has made is in apparently taking the revocation of A50 off the table. The fact that we are able to unilaterally revoke A50 is one of the few cards that the UK holds in the negotiations. It might be a dick move, but there is nothing to stop us from revoking on 28th March, and then triggering A50 again on the 29th - buying another two years. Any changes to how A50 can be used (to prevent such loopholes) we can presumably just veto, as is within our power as an EU member.
There needs to be a distinction that revoking A50 doesn’t (necessarily) mean cancelling Brexit full stop. At that point, we can basically screw around the EU a bit if they refuse to play ball. Again it would be a dick move, but at this point that really should be the least of our concerns.
There needs to be a distinction that revoking A50 doesn’t (necessarily) mean cancelling Brexit full stop. At that point, we can basically screw around the EU a bit if they refuse to play ball. Again it would be a dick move, but at this point that really should be the least of our concerns.
From a very quick search, GDP has fallen and there's been big job losses. So the scale of the prediction might have been wrong, but the direction of it was not at all.
Poll: Remain now has largest lead witnessed since EU referendum
The YouGov survey of more than 1,000 voters found 56% would now vote to stay in the EU, against 44% who want to leave.
It gives Remain a lead of 12% over Leave.
Exactly the same proportion of voters said they wanted a second EU referendum - three points higher than recorded in a similar poll before Christmas. Backing for a so-called People’s Vote among Labour supporters stood at 78%.
The Remain lead was extended further when respondents were asked to compare it to May’s Withdrawal Agreement or the option of leaving the EU without a deal.
Against the prime minister’s deal, Remain led by 65% to 35%, while against no-deal was 59%-41% in favour of staying in the EU.
Labour MP Chuka Umunna, a leading supporter of the People’s Vote campaign, said the government now needs to change course.
He said: “There is now a clear and expanding majority for staying in the EU and an even bigger one when voters have the chance to look at the real options for leaving.”
Umunna said that the poll had exposed the compromises of “Norway-plus” or customs union membership as “niche positions supported by less than one in 10 voters”.
In a three-way choice, voters split 52% for Remain, 39% for no-deal and 9% for Norway-plus, and 54% for Remain, 38% for no-deal and 8% for a customs union deal.
“The poll also underlines why the leadership of my party needs to listen to Labour’s own supporters, more than three-quarters of whom are demanding a People’s Vote,” said Umunna.
“To ignore those calls now would be an historic mistake for which Labour would not be forgiven.”
The YouGov survey of more than 1,000 voters found 56% would now vote to stay in the EU, against 44% who want to leave.
It gives Remain a lead of 12% over Leave.
Exactly the same proportion of voters said they wanted a second EU referendum - three points higher than recorded in a similar poll before Christmas. Backing for a so-called People’s Vote among Labour supporters stood at 78%.
The Remain lead was extended further when respondents were asked to compare it to May’s Withdrawal Agreement or the option of leaving the EU without a deal.
Against the prime minister’s deal, Remain led by 65% to 35%, while against no-deal was 59%-41% in favour of staying in the EU.
Labour MP Chuka Umunna, a leading supporter of the People’s Vote campaign, said the government now needs to change course.
He said: “There is now a clear and expanding majority for staying in the EU and an even bigger one when voters have the chance to look at the real options for leaving.”
Umunna said that the poll had exposed the compromises of “Norway-plus” or customs union membership as “niche positions supported by less than one in 10 voters”.
In a three-way choice, voters split 52% for Remain, 39% for no-deal and 9% for Norway-plus, and 54% for Remain, 38% for no-deal and 8% for a customs union deal.
“The poll also underlines why the leadership of my party needs to listen to Labour’s own supporters, more than three-quarters of whom are demanding a People’s Vote,” said Umunna.
“To ignore those calls now would be an historic mistake for which Labour would not be forgiven.”
in a real dick move we could even veto the budget and and basically throw a tantrum to try and get our own way - probably not a good move if your trying to negotiate a future trade deal though
That's the best you're going to get out of Corbyn at the moment.
labour leadership challange from somebody if corbyn wont back a second referendum?
I think there would be enough MP's who would back a challange - and with 78% in the party wanting a second ref it might be pretty close
I wish Corbyn would show even a fraction of the enthusiasm for a referendum as he did for Hugo Chávez on that BBC documentary last night.
No they can't revoke unless they can prove that the process is at an end.
Agreed. But similarly discarding the only card we have is the sort of “negotiating” that has led us to where we are now.
Like to think it is leaning that way .
Are you sure about this? I am not that well versed in the minutiae of it all, but my understanding was that we can simply and unilaterally revoke A50, no questions asked.
Absolutely savage stuff from Ken Clarke here 
They do realize they only have a few months to go?
Because he doesn't want Remain to be an option - he only wants a GE and to exit the EU. So transparent.
I thought the government could unilaterally revoke it but need the EU to agree to extending it?
That was my understanding.
That's what the Attorney General said yesterday. Not 100% sure but if it were possible friendly relations with the EU would be at an end.
Edit: you can unilaterally revoke it but I was talking about starting another 2 year period the very next day.
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And we are already halfway through this month. They may try to delay it.
You say that as though the UK is a world leader on racism. I would say that the UK is not that bad judging from the make-up of our population, our laws and the demand for people from other nations to come and live here. I am not saying it is perfect but if you put it up against Russia or some former Eastern block countries then I think the UK fairs quite well. Even the so-called liberal Swedes are being tested with the influx of foreign nationals. Racism is ingrained in every western nation and pretty much all of the the non-western world too in some form. And in those places, it is often openly demonstrated in the most brutal manner.
He as to be careful for what he wishes for.
Sick to the backteeth of it all.
In all my years involved in local politics and the trade unions, i've never seen such incompetents, not just in government but in opposition too.
Not only do they lack personality and knowledge, they lack the basic life skills needed to live in real world. There should of been cross party talks from the day Cameron called the referendum and carried on throughout the process, working together for the sake of the British public. Instead, they're too busy building their own personal fiefdoms, giving not 1 damn about the man in the street.
All of this because Cameron was so insecure due to the rise of UKIP and right wing tory racists. The country is fecked, my advice is get out while you can. It can only be solved by the government growing some balls and cancelling article 50 or a 2nd referendum which i doubt very much will happen and the country instead will drop off the edge of a cliff with no deal.
In all my years involved in local politics and the trade unions, i've never seen such incompetents, not just in government but in opposition too.
Not only do they lack personality and knowledge, they lack the basic life skills needed to live in real world. There should of been cross party talks from the day Cameron called the referendum and carried on throughout the process, working together for the sake of the British public. Instead, they're too busy building their own personal fiefdoms, giving not 1 damn about the man in the street.
All of this because Cameron was so insecure due to the rise of UKIP and right wing tory racists. The country is fecked, my advice is get out while you can. It can only be solved by the government growing some balls and cancelling article 50 or a 2nd referendum which i doubt very much will happen and the country instead will drop off the edge of a cliff with no deal.
Agreed.
A poisoned chalice if he won which is doubtful.
It's a bit entitled or downright arrogant to expect the UK can revoke A50 and activate it again the next day, wasting everyobody's time for another 2 years.
Should have thought twice before pulling the trigger. Ignorance is not an excuse at this level.
Should have thought twice before pulling the trigger. Ignorance is not an excuse at this level.
I agree, but if it is a choice between looking like a bit of a dick, or no-deal Brexit, then I know what I would choose.
For Chris Grayling it in't an excuse, it's his modus operandi.
And what makes you think the EU would accept ANY offer after that move? It would be a no-deal either way.
How has the Plan B vote been pushed to the 29th? Are they not ignoring Grieves motion doing that and why are we fecking delaying shit again
That is my thought. Either it is a deal that we can live with or we stay in. Fecking ERG bang on about £39b, well that would pale into insignificance against the cost of no deal. I'd willingly pay £39b just to avoid it.
I think everyone in and around Westminster will be judged very harshly by history for this. Whether you’re Remain or Leave, no one can be satisfied with either party and how they’ve acted. I suspect that the only thing stopping both of them taking a battering at the next general election is the FPTP system.
But even if that were possible it means they UK stay in the EU fully which won't please the Brexiteers, the same deal will be there , the EU still won't renegotiate and when the 2 years are up, back to square one. Neverending uncertainty.
- He said there were three key elements to Labour’s Brexit policy.Describing the Labour plan that the party will be tabling in the form of amendments, he said:
Those three elements provide the essential building blocks of a sensible deal with the clear potential to win majority support in parliament.
Corbyn's delusional unicorns
Let us keep in mind why everyone is dancing around issues that are imoossimpo and contradictory.
The political class don't want to talk about immigration.
The political class don't want to talk about immigration.
they should put down one amendment - basically benns amendment that they pulled before the vote which is to rule out no deal... might actually get that one passed
I am still unable to get my head around these amendments about no deal.
You can see what's going to happen. Labour are going to propose these - the rest of parliament already realise it's not possible - half of the Tories with the DUP are going to press for no deal - half of them are going to go for some part of Norway or Canada with the SNP or try and stop it altogether.
How is parliament ever going to come to a consensus and then also satisfy the people and even more importantly have a legitimate proposal that the EU will even contemplate.
And there's 71 days left .
He's not at the races with regard to Brexit or anything to do with it. Left to him he couldn't care less how it all finished. It is immaterial to his objectives. Hard, soft, stay-in. It doesn't matter. Economy crashing? Could not care a jot. Corbyn is against capitalism and any construct of it. His whole philosophy in an ideal world would be to tear it down root and branch then start again with his world view. There is nothing in this current situation (or any crisis that this country might otherwise face) that detracts Corbyns mind from that. His plans are not affected by the state the country is in when he takes over so why should he be bothered trying to change outcomes.
"The will of the people", feck off will you!
The will of half the (misinformed) people. Get it right rather than keep spouting the same old crap all the time.
Great quote for Ken Clarke btw.
The will of half the (misinformed) people. Get it right rather than keep spouting the same old crap all the time.
Great quote for Ken Clarke btw.
Why is anybody wondering why Corbyn isn’t backing a second referendum?
Maybe it’s because UKIP were squeezing the Labour vote making significant inroads into their core support in some of their heartlands?
Umm. Ironically the same reason Cameron set the whole ball rolling in the first place.
Both were squeezed by UKIP and both have had to appease that element of their support.
To recind now changing position and offering another referendum means a resurgent UKIP is eminently possible in the aftermath in the event of a stay result, so it’s a moot point whether it solves the whole problem or merely kicks the can down the road.
Maybe it’s because UKIP were squeezing the Labour vote making significant inroads into their core support in some of their heartlands?
Umm. Ironically the same reason Cameron set the whole ball rolling in the first place.
Both were squeezed by UKIP and both have had to appease that element of their support.
To recind now changing position and offering another referendum means a resurgent UKIP is eminently possible in the aftermath in the event of a stay result, so it’s a moot point whether it solves the whole problem or merely kicks the can down the road.