Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

[Paul the Wolf]

What I found hilarious was on QT when the Brexiters were all cheering at the prospect of No deal. Then the Brexiter said the usual crap about German cars and Merkel would be on the phone begging for a deal.
But if you want No Deal why would he want Merkel to beg for a Deal and they all cheered again.
Brexiters biggest problem : They don't think things through.

 

[JPRouve]

He takes up positions to encourage people to come at him though. Its his whole act.

Yes but he wants to be seen as provocative not as an actual moron or a racist or things like that. He positions himself as a devil's advocate.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Yes but he wants to be seen as provocative not as an actual moron or a racist or things like that. He positions himself as a devil's advocate.

He's a step beyond a devil's advocate. He pontificates and is totally obnoxious.

 

[JPRouve]

He's a step beyond a devil's advocate. He pontificates and is totally obnoxious.

You are weakening his case here and justifying why people think that he is lying about voting remain.

 

[Sweet Square]

Voters less likely to back Labour with stop Brexit policy,leaked poll suggest

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...t-policy-poll-suggests?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

 

[sun_tzu]

Voters less likely to back Labour with stop Brexit policy,leaked poll suggest

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...t-policy-poll-suggests?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

I mean luckily Corbyn is all about empowering the membership and not driven by polls... A new kind of politcs etc

 

[711]

Voters less likely to back Labour with stop Brexit policy,leaked poll suggest

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...t-policy-poll-suggests?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Did you read it? 11% of Labour voters said it would make them 'less likely' to vote Labour, but 9% of Conservative voters would switch to Labour, and also 40% of Liberal and Green voters said they would be more likely to vote Labour.

I think Labour policies should be about doing the right thing, not worrying, and misinterpreting, opinion polls.

 

[Sweet Square]

Did you read it? 11% of Labour voters said it would make them 'less likely' to vote Labour, but 9% of Conservative voters would switch to Labour, and also 40% of Liberal and Green voters said they would be more likely to vote Labour.

The 40% of Liberals & Greens(Which seems very low compared to how much their leaders bang on about a second vote)would'nt help Labour get into power and certainly is'nt worth a huge change in policy.

I think Labour policies should be about doing the right thing, not worrying, and misinterpreting, opinion polls.

Totally agree. So I'm sure you will join me in saying that Labour should suport the the destruction of the capitalist class and giving all power to the workers, I mean it is the right to do.

 

[Ubik]

Did you read it? 11% of Labour voters said it would make them 'less likely' to vote Labour, but 9% of Conservative voters would switch to Labour, and also 40% of Liberal and Green voters said they would be more likely to vote Labour.

I think Labour policies should be about doing the right thing, not worrying, and misinterpreting, opinion polls.

Devil's in the details with that kind of thing, hard to tell anything without looking at the crosstabs and whatnot, and even then it'll be sketchy to draw many firm conclusions.

But it looks like the question put in the poll was also an extreme "stop Brexit" line rather than the "let's have a referendum to see what the public think now" most are calling for. Which is the fault of the pro-EU group that commissioned it of course, but still kinda funny to see Owen Jones types present this as evidence of their thesis that Labour would be fecked electorally by switching policy.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

You are weakening his case here and justifying why people think that he is lying about voting remain.

Not really but it’s an unimportant thing to be debating.

 

[Maticmaker]

I like your optimism and I hope you are right.

Its not optimism, its a belief in the disgraced political class in the is country, saving their own skins. The Will of the people (right or wrong) has never held sway in this country, partly because its never been properly tested, but also because we have no written constitution, we are first of all subjects of the Queen, secondly citizens of the UK! It's HM's Government, its HM's request on our passports that ensure we travel freely, etc. One of the reasons we 'don't fit in' with the other EU countries is the fundamental difference in definitions of a Constitution.

Of course I could be wrong and HM Government runs down the clock on the No Deal, but then the politicians would have to earn their corn, which is inconceivable at this juncture!

 

[711]

The 40% of Liberals & Greens(Which seems very low compared to how much their leaders bang on about a second vote)would'nt help Labour get into power and certainly is'nt worth a huge change in policy.


Totally agree. So I'm sure you will join me in saying that Labour should suport the the destruction of the capitalist class and giving all power to the workers, I mean it is the right to do.

Labour, policy and Brexit are three words you will never find in the same sentence unfortunately.

As for the destruction of the capitalist class, yes, that's why Corbyn and McDonnell are Brexiters, are you saying you're a Brexiter too? I don't mind at all, I'd just like to see a bit more honesty about it all.

 

[711]

Devil's in the details with that kind of thing, hard to tell anything without looking at the crosstabs and whatnot, and even then it'll be sketchy to draw many firm conclusions.

But it looks like the question put in the poll was also an extreme "stop Brexit" line rather than the "let's have a referendum to see what the public think now" most are calling for. Which is the fault of the pro-EU group that commissioned it of course, but still kinda funny to see Owen Jones types present this as evidence of their thesis that Labour would be fecked electorally by switching policy.

Yeah, and I'll admit I don't have the time or knowledge to fully analyse it, but there's enough to make it pretty clear the actual poll doesn't match Sweet's headline.

 

[Cheesy]

Did you read it? 11% of Labour voters said it would make them 'less likely' to vote Labour, but 9% of Conservative voters would switch to Labour, and also 40% of Liberal and Green voters said they would be more likely to vote Labour.

I think Labour policies should be about doing the right thing, not worrying, and misinterpreting, opinion polls.

See usually I'd understand Labour voters/supporters defending the party doing the more politically motivated thing ahead of what's right because that's generally how politics works, and parties who don't take that approach are liable to get fecked over. But it's again remarkable that after two years of Corbyn supporters actively ignoring polls which had him trailing because they liked his policies, they're now constantly citing polls and treating them as gospel whenever they suggest Corbyn's current EU stance is more beneficial for himself even if not for the country. Even though until recently their support of him was entirely based on reversing that approach by trying to improve his popularity instead of settling for someone they didn't like. As I've said plenty of times, if their argument is against being more pro-EU is that "this is unpopular," then New Labour's arguments that they couldn't oppose austerity too strongly or that they had to appear tough on immigration can be excused in the same way. Even though Corbyn supporters weren't ever willing to excuse that sort of approach.

 

[Sweet Square]

As for the destruction of the capitalist class, yes, that's why Corbyn and McDonnell are Brexiters, are you saying you're a Brexiter too? I don't mind at all, I'd just like to see a bit more honesty about it all.

Nah I'm not really, I would mostly likely vote remain in another refendum but I just meh on the whole thing.

See usually I'd understand Labour voters/supporters defending the party doing the more politically motivated thing ahead of what's right because that's generally how politics works, and parties who don't take that approach are liable to get fecked over. But it's again remarkable that after two years of Corbyn supporters actively ignoring polls which had him trailing because they liked his policies, they're now constantly citing polls and treating them as gospel whenever they suggest Corbyn's current EU stance is more beneficial for himself even if not for the country. Even though until recently their support of him was entirely based on reversing that approach by trying to improve his popularity instead of settling for someone they didn't like. As I've said plenty of times, if their argument is against being more pro-EU is that "this is unpopular," then New Labour's arguments that they couldn't oppose austerity too strongly or that they had to appear tough on immigration can be excused in the same way. Even though Corbyn supporters weren't ever willing to excuse that sort of approach.

Firstly no one ignored the polls, in fact most where completely shitting it at the thought they had just destroyed the one actual left alternative. Secondly one of the reasons why people stuck with Corbyn was because the policy's such as train nationalstation, taking privatisation out the Nhs etc were popular amoung the population, hence why labour did so well at the last election. And finally comparing a standard election lose and a result one the biggest refendum in British history is well slightly bizarre.

 

[Cheesy]

Firstly no one ignored the polls, in fact most where completely shitting it at the thought they had just destroyed the one actual left alternative. Secondly one of the reasons why people stuck with Corbyn was because the policy's such as train nationalstation, taking privatisation out the Nhs etc were popular amoung the population, hence why labour did so well at the last election. And finally comparing a standard election lose and a result one the biggest refendum in British history is well slightly bizarre.

You weren't necessarily ignoring them but you were perfectly willing to argue in Corbyn's favour all the same in spite of the fact that polling indicated he wasn't good enough. You actually had a point here though - by getting him into a position in 2017 where he was actually able to argue his points effectively, he improved and managed to dent the Tories majority. Not a win, and so not exactly brilliant, but an improvement all the same.

The same principle should surely apply to the parties approach to the EU though. The referendum itself was massive but it was won by a narrow margin, fueled by disinformation, ignored the contentious Irish border issue which literally has the potential to threaten lives if it goes sour, and didn't give the Tories anything near the mandate to push for the hard Brexit they've been advocating for since 2016. Up until recently Labour were supportive of that approach out of the sentiment that they couldn't go against it because of polling. Even though Corbyn's initial approach was quite literally to advocate for what was best instead of following the numbers.

Now the party seems to be mildly supportive of staying in the customs union and will go for that approach but it's still fairly muddled in that they'll make vague feints to the idea of a People's Vote even though they don't seem keen on backing one. And whenever the parties position is criticised in regards to the EU polling numbers are often the first thing pulled out. As is regularly evidenced in this thread, where the Lib Dems are regularly ridiculed for their shit polling numbers (that being a reason not to vote for them) even though for the majority of Corbyn's reign he's had...shit polling numbers!

There's surely got to be some consistency in there somewhere. The party are happy to follow the polling when it suits them but will happily advocate for other positions they like when it doesn't. And if your argument for supporting Brexit is due to it being one of the biggest referendums in electoral history, then argue on that point. Don't then pretend it's about polling.

 

[sun_tzu]

Corbyn really is getting to the point where he's going to have to do something

Failing to secure the ge (as expected)... Looking a bit childish with his preconditions for talks and trying to stop labour MP's engaging in them

Starmer pushing for labour to back a second referendum
https://news.sky.com/story/starmer-shifts-labour-towards-second-eu-referendum-11611558

Even pob outperforming him


I think Corbyn needs his own plan b ready to present tomorrow

 

[Token Sheet]

It will affect people on both sides. And your beloved Portimonense.

Our home record thus far against top 4 this season is pretty impressive. Beat Sporting and Benfica and drew with Braga. Just Porto left.

"We are Algarve, we are Portimao, we are Portimonense!!!"

 

[SCP]

Our home record thus far against top 4 this season is pretty impressive. Beat Sporting and Benfica and drew with Braga. Just Porto left.

"We are Algarve, we are Portimao, we are Portimonense!!!"

I was really expecting the mythical song from Portimonense.

Yes Folha is doing a good job, their brazilian owners have good connections no problem for them to stay.

Regarding the rest I noticed my fellow posters already told you more or less what to do. There is always a Embassy to help. Still will be a problem for both sides, even our Government is already spinning it won't be all great for us as expected.

 

[Token Sheet]

I was really expecting the mythical song from Portimonense.

Yes Folha is doing a good job, their brazilian owners have good connections no problem for them to stay.

Regarding the rest I noticed my fellow posters already told you more or less what to do. There is always a Embassy to help. Still will be a problem for both sides, even our Government is already spinning it won't be all great for us as expected.

I know, it's the uncertainty of it all even at this late stage that's so frustrating.

I'm back over in a couple of weeks and will probably waste a day at the local council office registering my citizenship which I don't think I'll be eligible for.

 

[unchanged_lineup]

My team play Sale the day after Brexit

 

[devilish]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46917999

No trade deal has yet been signed

I wonder what these guys had been doing throughout the past 2 years

 

[Abizzz]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46917999

No trade deal has yet been signed

I wonder what these guys had been doing throughout the past 2 years

"It's largely dependent on other whether countries believe that there will be no deal and are willing to put the work in to the preparations."

He's openly questioning whether other governments believe his government's bluff. I'm no expert at poker, but...

 

[Cheesy]

Out of all the stupid Tories I think Fox might take the cake. The time he was caught out lying when he was saying something contradictory to a tweet literally being displayed behind him was probably his peak although he'll no doubt manage to top it at some point.

 

[sun_tzu]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46917999

No trade deal has yet been signed

I wonder what these guys had been doing throughout the past 2 years

I don't think they can actually legally sign trade deal at the moment can they? You know with us being in the EU / customs arrangement?

 

[711]

I don't think they can actually legally sign trade deal at the moment can they? You know with us being in the EU / customs arrangement?

When A50 was delivered the EU said the UK couldn't even negotiate a new trade deal, let alone sign one. Sounded bollocks to me at the time, but given the levels of incompetence in handling the whole thing it probably doesn't matter anyway.

 

[devilish]

I don't think they can actually legally sign trade deal at the moment can they? You know with us being in the EU / customs arrangement?

True. However I think that doesn't apply to deals signed to replicate the existent arrangements with third countries

 

[Paul the Wolf]

True. However I think that doesn't apply to deals signed to replicate the existent arrangements.

You can't replicate the existing terms because the trade deals the EU have with these other countries give them access to all EU countries, a UK trade deal only gives them access to the UK.

Why should countries negotiate or sign when the UK could still be an EU country on 30th March. Nonsensical Fox drivel.

Liam Fox, the international trade secretary, has said that other countries are to blame for the fact that the UK does not have alternative trade deals ready by 29 March to replace the existing 40 EU ones that will lapse if the UK leaves without a deal. Asked about this revelation in today’s Financial Times (see 10.57am), he said:

[The agreements are] not just dependent on the UK. Our side is ready. It is largely dependent on whether other countries believe that there will be no deal, and are willing to put the work into the preparations.

Britain has failed to finalise most trade deals needed to replace the EU’s 40 existing agreements with leading global economies and will not be close to doing so when Brexit occurs on March 29, according to an internal Whitehall memorandum.

The memo, compiled by civil servants as part of contingency planning for the UK crashing out of the EU without a formal Brussels divorce agreement, warned that most of the deals would lapse without a transition period that keeps Britain under the EU umbrella once Brexit occurs.

“Almost none of them are ready to go now and none will be ready to go by March,” said one government official who has seen the internal analysis of the Department of International Trade’s progress.



Being the only member of the Department of International Trade probably doesn't help old Foxy realise that you need to have an agreement with the other country in order to have trade deals. Takes more than one person to tango.

Brexit the tragi-comedy.

 

[Wibble]

At least there seems to now be at least a chance of a second referendum although it would need us to request, and the EU to agree to, an exit delay.

My fear is that the Tories and Labor might not want to appear as if they pushed for a second referendum. Fiddling while Rome burns apparently being more palatable to them.

 

[Wibble]

Nothing ever changes apart from the targets. As @GloryHunter07 said when I was young it was the Irish and also the Commonwealth immigrants were the targets. If the European immigrants left it'll probably revert back to them.

And dogs

 

[Steven Seagull]

People can post what they want but they need to back it up. I welcome arguments from Leavers as to why Brexit is a good thing. After 2.5 years, I have still yet to hear one.

No it isn't, an indictment of people who don't have arguments to defend their opinions and pretend they're playing devil's advocate instead.

People don’t want to be governed by people in another country. I think that’s a very decent reason

And I voted remain!!

 

[TheGame]

May out with her standard lines again today, god she is just a robot, we must deliver brexit blah blah blah

 

[Mb194dc]

I think Corbyn has played a blinder.

He knows May's strategy is now to run down the clock playing chicken with no deal in the hope of getting the backstop removed. So she can't agree to take no deal off the table.

I think the EU will come and say they won't be changing it under any circumstances and mean it.

Corbyn can still table more no confidence motions. May has such a small majority, ultimately Tory remainers like Boles and Grieve will peel off and government will lose. Most Tory MPs do not want no deal.

Likely Brexit will be cancelled and Corbyn will win a crushing victory in the resulting GE.

 

[Giant Midget]

I think Corbyn has played a blinder.

He knows May's strategy is now to run down the clock playing chicken with no deal in the hope of getting the backstop removed. So she can't agree to take no deal off the table.

I think the EU will come and say they won't be changing it under any circumstances and mean it.

Corbyn can still table more no confidence motions. May has such a small majority, ultimately Tory remainers like Boles and Grieve will peel off and government will lose. Most Tory MPs do not want no deal.

Likely Brexit will be cancelled and Corbyn will win a crushing victory in the resulting GE.

Okay, Jezza. Stop wanking and do something.

 

[Rajma]

I think Corbyn has played a blinder.

He knows May's strategy is now to run down the clock playing chicken with no deal in the hope of getting the backstop removed. So she can't agree to take no deal off the table.

I think the EU will come and say they won't be changing it under any circumstances and mean it.

Corbyn can still table more no confidence motions. May has such a small majority, ultimately Tory remainers like Boles and Grieve will peel off and government will lose. Most Tory MPs do not want no deal.

Likely Brexit will be cancelled and Corbyn will win a crushing victory in the resulting GE.

and then what? Brexit will disappear? How’s he going to sort the issue out without backing 2nd ref?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

People don’t want to be governed by people in another country. I think that’s a very decent reason

And I voted remain!!

These same people also want to continue governing people in other countries (Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland). Explain that one to me.

 

[Mb194dc]

and then what? Brexit will disappear? How’s he going to sort the issue out without backing 2nd ref?

Very easy to say Brexit negotiations failed because of Theresa May agreeing a deal that was totally unacceptable to leavers and remainers, leaving us with the only choice of withdrawing article 50 or facing no deal economic destruction.

That is also the truth.

Obviously the EU question would have to be revisited in the future, I would say no politician would touch it for at least 10 years though except Farage after this shambles. There will probably be a new conservative party founded by Farage, not easy to get off the ground quickly though. Also does he really have the energy to do it all over again?

I believe the vast majority of the UK population will understand that the withdrawal agreement and no deal are both terrible options. Parliament could not choose either, and that even if we're remaining for now it isn't over forever.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

People don’t want to be governed by people in another country. I think that’s a very decent reason

And I voted remain!!

You don't have to keep saying this.

At the moment UK parliament is deciding whether it's staying in the EU, going into transition, shooting itself in the foot. It's a sovereign decision, you know the sovereignty Brexiters so desperately want but of course don't want if it doesn't go their way. Just like the judges being the"Enemies of the People".

Nobody in the EU is deciding the UK's fate.

 

[Steven Seagull]

These same people also want to continue governing people in other countries (Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland). Explain that one to me.

I can’t because we have an island full of idiots who can’t think. I wasn’t around when the kingdom was formed but I was more than happy to see the Scottish referendum.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

I think Corbyn has played a blinder.

He knows May's strategy is now to run down the clock playing chicken with no deal in the hope of getting the backstop removed. So she can't agree to take no deal off the table.

I think the EU will come and say they won't be changing it under any circumstances and mean it.

Corbyn can still table more no confidence motions. May has such a small majority, ultimately Tory remainers like Boles and Grieve will peel off and government will lose. Most Tory MPs do not want no deal.

Likely Brexit will be cancelled and Corbyn will win a crushing victory in the resulting GE.

The EU has been saying the same thing since the beginning but no-one in the UK is listening including Corbyn who still thinks, two and half years later,can have his cake and eat it. Corbyn has alienated himself not only from the Tories but the other parties as well so playing a blinder I would say is the opposite of what he has done. Even JRM said he will continue to back the government, anything to keep Corbyn out of power.