That's the thing though, the EU should communicate publicly about the two available options because it becomes obvious that DUP and the UK are aiming for a hard border but don't want to take the responsibility. At the moment we are blurring the topic by talking about red lines. We should put the answers on the table and let DUP and May take their responsibility in front of everyone.
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
That's the thing though, the EU should communicate publicly about the two available options because it becomes obvious that DUP and the UK are aiming for a hard border but don't want to take the responsibility. At the moment we are blurring the topic by talking about red lines. We should put the answers on the table and let DUP and May take their responsibility in front of everyone.
But a sea is a border ...
I get what your saying, but its kind of silly isn't it? I suppose its besides the point with Northern Ireland, little things like that are hugely significant.
I presume if Stormont is reinstated they could renegotiate as they see fit?
More like "i will shoot myself in the head and you will have to clean up afterwards"...
The longer the list the better.
Negative campaigning won't work for this, you will just calls of project fear.
Beginning to think that all those who have claimed that "the E.U always leaves it to the last minute" are actually just trying to gap the time until they can say "It's too late now".
Oh it's incredibly silly, no doubt there, but the whole thing is incredibly silly. It's just one more silly way of thinking that's led us to this absolute shambles. Ultimately though that is the way a big part of NI think (I mean, just look at the DUP). They would rather there be a hard border with Ireland than to have a "border" with the UK.
I think either choice, hard border with Ireland, or hard border with the UK, would potentially bring NI back to the times of the troubles anyway, so neither are a realistic option.
I am still optimistic that there will be some form of negotiated agreement.
I say that on the basis that:
1. The government/parliament will not allow us to leave with no deal.
2. The government/parliament will not withdraw Article 50 stopping Brexit.
To me those should be the only so called red lines and however significant the Withdrawal Bill is, the more important thing will be the Future Trading Arrangement with the EU.
I do believe though that to get to the negotiated agreement it may well be necessary to delay the actual leaving date unless both sides are able to make real progress.
I mostly agree with what you're saying but the reality is there are already border checks on the movement of livestock and agricultural equipment among other things between Britain and Northern Ireland, not to mention different laws on Gay marriage and abortion. NI is already different than Britain but it would still be part of the UK even if it remained in the CU/SM.
Having a border in the Irish sea has to be the better option than a border in Ireland and breaking the Good Friday Agreement by stationing police/military personnel at the border crossings.
Leave won the last referendum without listing any benefits, moreover everyone's still waiting three years later for the list.
Tell the leavers they'll get a free holiday in Blackpool if they vote Remain, they believed the same crap the last time.
Like I said, "logical to these NI citizens" is not the same as being logical
everything you've said there is correct but do you think they'll care about any of that? Any hypothetical border or any kind between them and the mainland to keep them closer tied to Europe instead will cause uproar.yup - no deal is the legal default and if that is your preferred outcome then stringing out the process as long as possible is your best (in fact probably only real tactic as its unlikely they could get a majority for no deal)
I think they will fail tomorrow but i suspect the thinking is along the lines of if we can pass the amendment to force May back to negotiate then this will buy us something like 4 weeks where we say negotiations are ongoing.
When the EU refuse to negotiate and there is 1 month left we blame them and prepare for no deal.
we also blame May saying a brexiteer would have made the EU negotiate and get ready for the inevitable leadership election when May has dragged us out with no deal and is basically even more of a toxic brand than she is now.
then its time to get a brexiteer in charge and time to start cutting taxes and welfare - its almost admirable that whilst I dont agree with any of those policies at least those that do are consistent in trying to achieve it.
If Coopers amendment does not pass Benn and Corbyn should just resign as the had the no deal amendment in the bag on the meaningful vote but pulled it to play party politics for a tactic (force a GE) that was clearly going to fail
not true... they said there would be £350m per week for the NHS - a guaranteed free trade deal with the EU as it was the easiest deal in history and USA etc beating a path to our door to sign more trade deals.
They promised lots of benefits
The free holiday in Blackpool is more realistic than those. The small print is that they have to make their own way there , it's in a beach hut and only lasts five minutes.
Delusion does not come close.
What's this about? Sounds like a nightmare. Must apply by app that only works on Android phones!
Like I said, "logical to these NI citizens" is not the same as being logical
I'm from NI myself mate so i know what you mean, you're right of course. Logic rarely comes into it over here.
I have suspected for a while now that the DUP see this whole Brexit/backstop thing as nothing more than a means to try to get the GFA ripped up. They were after all the only party to campaign against it.
If May had not got into bed with them then they could have been safely ignored during this whole process.
Regarding “People’s Vote”
Weren’t the original points that: a) we respect the referendum result but b) we should get a vote on what kind of Brexit we end up with.
Has that now become cancel Brexit or repeat the original referendum?
Weren’t the original points that: a) we respect the referendum result but b) we should get a vote on what kind of Brexit we end up with.
Has that now become cancel Brexit or repeat the original referendum?
The problem with this though is that it revolves around MP's actually being willing to give us that a vote on that, before then passing it as a result. Which they're unwilling to do.
It also doesn't really work because it presumes we make a singular voice on what sort of Brexit we want - that's not necessarily something we can do, because it involves the EU agreeing with said wishes. And any adjustments which come after any hypothetical vote on what Brexit we want (and there inevitably would be some) would then invalidate the referendum itself.
And even that isn't really possible now, because the EU appear to be finished negotiating, or at least that's the position they're taking for now. As a result it's either May's deal, a deal which benefits the EU even more, or a no deal Brexit. The latter clearly isn't viable and politicians have a responsibility to make sure it doesn't happen. If we can't reach a deal beyond that then the more responsible option is to call off the whole process, at least in the short-term.
So the PM who negotiated the backstop urges MPs to back a pointless amendment to ditch the backstop.
The UK is broken.
Supermarkets have sent a letter warning of food shortages...
Ten UK food stores warn MPs of the 'disruption' and 'shock' of a no-deal Brexit https://jrnl.ie/4463407
Ten UK food stores warn MPs of the 'disruption' and 'shock' of a no-deal Brexit https://jrnl.ie/4463407
It's hard to believe. She is basically telling the world that her word and signature is worth literally nothing.
Yep. A PM is backing an amendment that calls for her to negotiate something she literally and repeatedly said was impossible to negotiate. Clearly things are going well.
The Art of No Deal.
Obviously project fear, 10 supermarkets can't all possibly think the same.
You remember just before Xmas 2017 , over a year ago - she said she had agreed certain parts of the agreement. When she came back after Xmas last January she denied everything when they were supposed to put it into legal text.
She is totally untrustworthy.
Her only intent is to last as long as possible as PM and she will say and do anything to prolong it.
I presume she does realise that the EU are aware of what she is doing.
That's not the irony. This is the irony
'The EU view ROI as a small country which the EU grand designers of the project will toss aside, damage and abandon once they had been used'"
Considering the apalling way the British had treated Ireland for most of its history I wonder how anyone would write that with a straight face.
I actually forgot about that. I would love to know what India or Australia are thinking about it, they were named as some of the countries that could talk about an FTA in the months following Brexit.
People that have investments in the United Kingdom might be better off selling it and invest elsewhere in the Eurozone as the English parliament are leading the UK into a disastrous economic situation. The entire parliament and the MPs are playing games and have shown absolutely no political ability to steer the UK through this safely. This has hard Brexit written all over it due to incompetence on the entire political spectrum and history will condemn them all for it if it ends up with a Hard Brexit based upon mostly lies, deceit and ignorant nationalism. When this country needed political acumen and intelligent leadership it has been nowhere to be found and that is ultimately the fault of the Tories and Theresa May.
Crazy we aren't going to be allowed a second referendum given the absolute feckwittery on show.
Well all the Commonwealth countries were supposed to be falling over each other desperate to have deals with the UK.
The Tories still think it's the 19th century but the world is watching very closely at their behaviour. They're going to be in for a nasty surprise.
Not only are they leaving an important trading bloc but are proving they cannot be trusted and also will not have any trade deals in hand.
I wonder who will have the upper hand in any negotiations. Bit of a turn around from the Empire.
The Irish border is never going to get sorted without a backstop OR customs union - there are no other options (apart from stopping BREXIT I guess). It was the same two years ago and it's the same now. I've honestly no clue what planet the PM is on.
Are we still working on the assumption that the EU needs the UK more than we need them? Is that still a thing?
Are we still working on the assumption that the EU needs the UK more than we need them? Is that still a thing?
John Baron, who tabled another of the amendments, has said
I urge fellow Conservatives to support [the Brady amendment]. This stands the best chance of uniting the party, getting the DUP on board, and sending a clear message to the EU that the backstop is the key problem – without a majority tomorrow, the EU could conclude the backstop is not important.
These people have left planet Earth - of course the EU is completely unaware of what's going on.
I urge fellow Conservatives to support [the Brady amendment]. This stands the best chance of uniting the party, getting the DUP on board, and sending a clear message to the EU that the backstop is the key problem – without a majority tomorrow, the EU could conclude the backstop is not important.
These people have left planet Earth - of course the EU is completely unaware of what's going on.