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Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

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My theory is almost all of Theresa Maysa actions over the past two years are completely explainable if you approach it from the angle that she believes the EU can't, for whatever reason, actually read the UK news.

I assume she thinks everyone else is as hoplelessly insular as we are...
 
JPRouve said:
It's hard to believe. She is basically telling the world that her word and signature is worth literally nothing.
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I don't want to defend May but that's not really fair or logical. Any agreement was pending to parliaments approval which she hasn't got. Your statement suggests a commitment was made beyond that.

She doesn't and shouldn't have supreme authority over parliament.
 
Smores said:
I don't want to defend May but that's not really fair or logical. Any agreement was pending to parliaments approval which she hasn't got. Your statement suggests a commitment was made beyond that.

She doesn't and shouldn't have supreme authority over parliament.
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The EU negotiations were conducted by Michel Barnier and his team and he continuously updated the EU27 on the details of the negotiations. Which is why the 27 other countries are fully aware of the agreement and will ratify it.

You're saying that May had no authority to conduct the negotiations in the first place.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
The EU negotiations were conducted by Michel Barnier and his team and he continuously updated the EU27 on the details of the negotiations. Which is why the 27 other countries are fully aware of the agreement and will ratify it.

You're saying that May had no authority to conduct the negotiations in the first place.
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Correct she didn't because she tried to bypass parliament and never got an indicative view of what would pass.

I don't think the EU were unaware of that at any point though.
 
Smores said:
I don't want to defend May but that's not really fair or logical. Any agreement was pending to parliaments approval which she hasn't got. Your statement suggests a commitment was made beyond that.

She doesn't and shouldn't have supreme authority over parliament.
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That's nonsensical, she negotiated a deal on behalf of the UK as the chief of the executive, she is now actively reneging it. There are three issues, first you are insinuating that she didn't have authority to negotiate, then that she didn't represent the UK and that parliament willfully let her negotiate during two years knowing that she couldn't.
 
Smores said:
Correct she didn't because she tried to bypass parliament and never got an indicative view of what would pass.

I don't think the EU were unaware of that at any point though.
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In fairness if it wasn't for Gina miller parliament wouldn't have even got a meaningful vote on the issue... May would just have cracked on and signed the deal herself
 
Smores said:
Correct she didn't because she tried to bypass parliament and never got an indicative view of what would pass.

I don't think the EU were unaware of that at any point though.
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Yes but that is entirely her fault and parliament's fault. She can't spend two years negotiating and then turn around and say oh actually parliament don't want that.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
Yes but that is entirely her fault and parliament's fault. She can't spend two years negotiating and then turn around and say oh actually parliament don't want that.
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Well yeah it is but she hasn't gone back on her word she's just led a poor negotiation which we all knew already.

Barnier could have been in the same situation if a member had refused to sign last minute but as you say he involved the approvers in the process to mitigate that
 
sun_tzu said:
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...back-away-from-anti-backstop-brexit-amendment

If the erg hold that line the Brady amendment is sunk

And the only other amendment that seems to have a chance of passing I'd the cooper Boyles one and that's looking close

I think we end tomorrow with no ammendments passing proving once and for all there is a majority against every option but no majority for any
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Even if an alternative deal were possible, I can't see there being a majority in parliament for any of them.
 
devilish said:
That's not the irony. This is the irony

'The EU view ROI as a small country which the EU grand designers of the project will toss aside, damage and abandon once they had been used'"

Considering the apalling way the British had treated Ireland for most of its history I wonder how anyone would write that with a straight face.
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The DUP and Sammy Wilson in particular have no shame. They write and say batshit stuff all the time.
 
Smores said:
Well yeah it is but she hasn't gone back on her word she's just led a poor negotiation which we all knew already.

Barnier could have been in the same situation if a member had refused to sign last minute but as you say he involved the approvers in the process to mitigate that
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She has gone back on her word because the backstop was her negotiation and now she's urging MPs to vote against it. She's undertaken the negotiations all wrongly and that is why the EU have conducted the negotiations in the proper way to avoid this.

Having said that, imagine having the negotiation done between the EU and the whole of parliament. During the two years that she has been negotiating with the EU, the UK parliament has been ripping itself apart arguing amongst itself and within parties and they still have not got a consensus and they never will.
 
sun_tzu said:
In fairness if it wasn't for Gina miller parliament wouldn't have even got a meaningful vote on the issue... May would just have cracked on and signed the deal herself
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Nah, Miller's old news (and I suspect there's a reason that the media can't let her go...)

The meaningful vote was a result of opposition to May and her course of action and a reflection of her weakness throughout this process. It was introduced into law as an amendment to the 2018 withdrawal act.

Miller's achievement (such that it was) may have been to set something of a precedent that Parliament should be involved in the process, but her tangible accomplishments were an act so short I can quote it in full without pissing anybody off with the length of it:

European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Act 2017

2017 CHAPTER 9

An Act to confer power on the Prime Minister to notify, under Article 50(2) of the Treaty on European Union, the United Kingdom’s intention to withdraw from the EU. [16th March 2017]

BE IT ENACTED by the Queen’s most Excellent Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Lords Spiritual and Temporal, and Commons, in this present Parliament assembled, and by the authority of the same, as follows:—


(1) (2)

Power to notify withdrawal from the EU

The Prime Minister may notify, under Article 50(2) of the Treaty on European Union, the United Kingdom’s intention to withdraw from the EU.

This section has effect despite any provision made by or under the European Communities Act 1972 or any other enactment.

Short title

This Act may be cited as the European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Act 2017.
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Had May not fallen victim to her own hubris three months later it's possible she would have succeeded in her attempts to railroad parliament even with the Miller case.
 
Man those last few pages were more depressing than usual. Might take a break from this thread for a bit...
 
Massive Spanner said:
It may seem logical but it's not going to be logical to a lot of NI citizens. Half of NI identify themselves as British. Just because there was a majority to stay in the EU does not mean those people would prefer to not have a border with a country they don't see themselves as part of over a country they do see themselves as part of.
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Barring a small group of very bitter people; no one would want to see the hard borders go up here again. We’ve already lived through that and people like the freedom of coming and going over the border. Many people might have family on one side of the border or the other. Also if a border goes up I have no doubt that the ‘new ira’ will come out from under their rocks and start all the shit up again.

Frankly I’m pissed that the government types, various MPs and the press are trying to pass the buck to Ireland. It’s the uks mess, they signed up for the GFA and they need to honour it.

It’s turning into the biggest political clusterfeck of all time
 
Don't give a shit anymore. We should just crash out and let everything burn.
 
Do I need to start prepping now for a no deal?

Thinking it’s prudent to get some essentials given I have Young children?
 
rpitchfo said:
Do I need to start prepping now for a no deal?

Thinking it’s prudent to get some essentials given I have Young children?
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Couldn’t do any harm getting ahead of the curve and if it doesn’t happen then there’s no harm done anyway
 
Saw a comment with a lot of likes under an article on FB about the difficulties of importing fruit under a no deal brexit.

It was reminiscing with fondness the days of seasonal fruit and vegetables, and claiming they are looking forward to it coming back. Strictly worse position but in these people's heads it's better because of nostalgia.

They aren't inherently bad people but Christ are they ridiculous.

This is the country that the police had to tell people to stop calling them when KFC ran out of chicken. How do you think people are going to actually react when they lose all the convenience we're used to in the supermarkets?
 
Drainy said:
how do you think people are going to actually react when they lose all the convenience we're used to in the supermarkets?
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Demand we nuke brussels then another European city every hour until they can get their Belgian chocolates, french wine, German beer and Italian olive oil without paying import taxes... And that we hurry up with global warming so they can grow their own oranges?
 
golden_blunder said:
Barring a small group of very bitter people; no one would want to see the hard borders go up here again. We’ve already lived through that and people like the freedom of coming and going over the border. Many people might have family on one side of the border or the other. Also if a border goes up I have no doubt that the ‘new ira’ will come out from under their rocks and start all the shit up again.

Frankly I’m pissed that the government types, various MPs and the press are trying to pass the buck to Ireland. It’s the uks mess, they signed up for the GFA and they need to honour it.

It’s turning into the biggest political clusterfeck of all time
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Spot on.
Not one person I know wants a border, never mind half of the population.
 
What is the alternative to the backstop? Another backstop? I mean the sole purpose of the backstop was to protect Northern Ireland. What this shows is that protecting NI and the GFA means sweet f all to English (and DUP) politicians.

The 'precious union' is looking weaker day by day. UK could cease to exist in my lifetime which I thought impossible.
 
unchanged_lineup said:
Supermarkets have sent a letter warning of food shortages...

Ten UK food stores warn MPs of the 'disruption' and 'shock' of a no-deal Brexit https://jrnl.ie/4463407
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Brexit supporting members of the public answer:

"It'll do us good to go without, make us appreciate what we had".

Perhaps we can all have a go at Cholera and Diptheria too!
 
Forget food

Supplies of medicine should be deemed more important than shipments of food if there is a no-deal Brexit, the health secretary has told MPs.

Matt Hancock made clear his view when answering questions at the health and social care select committee. “The thing is that medicines will be prioritised in the event of a no-deal Brexit,” the health and social care secretary said when asked by the former Labour health minister Ben Bradshaw which would be given precedence.

Bradshaw responded: “Over food? Over vital food?”

Hancock replied: “Of course medicines will be prioritised. And we have been through detailed, line-by-line analysis of the 12,000 licensed medicines in the UK. In fact we had our latest meeting on it this morning, the three of us were there, in order to ensure there is a plan for the continuity for all medicines in the event of a no-deal Brexit.”

Britain gets far more of its pharmaceuticals from or via the EU than it does food, said Hancock. About half of all the drugs that the NHS uses are imported from or “have some touchpoint with the EU”, he added.
 
Drainy said:
Saw a comment with a lot of likes under an article on FB about the difficulties of importing fruit under a no deal brexit.

It was reminiscing with fondness the days of seasonal fruit and vegetables, and claiming they are looking forward to it coming back. Strictly worse position but in these people's heads it's better because of nostalgia.

They aren't inherently bad people but Christ are they ridiculous.

This is the country that the police had to tell people to stop calling them when KFC ran out of chicken. How do you think people are going to actually react when they lose all the convenience we're used to in the supermarkets?
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They'll still find a way to blame it on Jonny Foreigner, the EU, benefit cheats, Muslims, Diane Abbot, or Bigfoot. Anything except Brexit.
 
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