Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .
Maticmaker said:
Only whilst the UK remains part of the EU, when the UK becomes a 'third country' that will change, will it not?
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No, unless you find a way to move the island somewhere else in the universe. On Earth there isn't a lot of countries that have no agreements with EU member states whether it is through the EU or individually.
 
JPRouve said:
No, unless you find a way to move the island somewhere else in the universe. On Earth there isn't a lot of countries that have no agreements with EU member states whether it is through the EU or individually.
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Sorry, I don't really understand this statement? Even if it were physically possible why would the UK want to move anywhere else? The UK will always be part of Europe, but after Brexit not of the political European Union, isn't that what Leavers voted for?
 
Paul the Wolf said:
For both sides to negotiate a new relationship and to adjust . It will hit the EU to an extent but they're not going to fall off a cliff, the EU only gets cut off from the UK, the UK gets cut off from everyone.
All the EU members will still have fluid borders with the other EU nations, the Uk would have no fluid borders at all.
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I thought that was part of what the leavers wanted?
 
Maticmaker said:
I thought that was part of what the leavers wanted?
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They want controlled borders which they already have, other than with Ireland.
They want the right to make EU citizens who are a burden on UK society leave the country, which they already have.

They need fluid borders to stop the integrated trade it has with the EU grinding to a halt.
Tariffs and all this discussion about FTA is relevant but more important because of its geographical position is fluid trade with the EU.
Doubt very much many leavers understand the significance.
 
Maticmaker said:
Sorry, I don't really understand this statement? Even if it were physically possible why would the UK want to move anywhere else? The UK will always be part of Europe, but after Brexit not of the political European Union, isn't that what Leavers voted for?
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The political union has nothing to do with the existence of political interactions. The UK will trade with the EU, people and goods will cross the borders which means that political decisions will have to be taken about how these things are organized conjointly. It's true with the US or China and it will be true for the UK.
 
Maticmaker said:
That is correct, but since the EU made it clear from day one that they would not negotiate (or at one point even talk about) a future trade deal, until we had left the EU, then it seemed ridiculous for the UK Government to agree a withdrawal (or as it became known a divorce deal) agreement; instead the two years allowed in art 50 should have been used to prepare internally for a no deal on the 29th March. Otherwise, as Mrs May has now found out, we have become a hostage to fortune, promising to settle with the EU before we have anything concrete in return.
The binary choices are still there, we either Leave, without a deal, or Remain, and cancel Brexit. None of the other so called 'choices' satisfy either leavers or remainers' and will poison UK politics for decades, primarily because they will be seen to be 'a fix' cobbled together to save, not the country, but the embarrassment of our political classes and which anyhow doesn't work!
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So let me get this right you think the UK governments stance from day one should have been to not even try to negotiate any sort of withdrawal agreement?

They should have just let the 2 years run down and crash out with no deal, make no effort to agree to border arrangements in Ireland and jeopardize the Good Friday Agreement?
 
Paul the Wolf said:
They want controlled borders which they already have, other than with Ireland.
They want the right to make EU citizens who are a burden on UK society leave the country, which they already have.

They need fluid borders to stop the integrated trade it has with the EU grinding to a halt.
Tariffs and all this discussion about FTA is relevant but more important because of its geographical position is fluid trade with the EU.
Doubt very much many leavers understand the significance.
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Completely agree. Although, for many, even if they did understand they still wouldn't care.
 
If Nissan is your only means of work, as was ship building, as was mining, then its not hard to see why the north eastern people are angry. Total neglect.
 
stevoc said:
So let me get this right you think the UK governments stance from day one should have been to not even try to negotiate any sort of withdrawal agreement?

They should have just let the 2 years run down and crash out with no deal, make no effort to agree to border arrangements in Ireland and jeopardize the Good Friday Agreement?
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The problem is most people (be they ignorant right wing mouth breather, or cowardly left wing snowflake) think the withdrawl agreement is the permanent agreement with the EU, and not the interim framework we will be dealing with the EU under while we negotiate or decide our long term relationship with them.

The biggest problem, is that both sides of the argument are just as ignorant and stupid as the other, as they deal in absolutes and fear, both sides think we will be severing all ties with the EU, with one side thinking we will stride mightly into the future with the Union Jack flying on every corner, bent bananas and no more eastern Europeans, the other side thinks we will collapse into a mad max style apocalypse were everyone who cant prove they were born within spitting distance of the bow bells back 6 generations will be lined up and shot, no food on the shelves and their children dying in their arms because there is no medicine.

Neither side seem to grasp that countries dont work like that, they ignore every other country that has left a long term political union (like most of Europe, India, parts of Africa, the United States) and instead think that the UK will be some special exception in what actually happens.
 
Ducklegs said:
The problem is most people (be they ignorant right wing mouth breather, or cowardly left wing snowflake) think the withdrawl agreement is the permanent agreement with the EU, and not the interim framework we will be dealing with the EU under while we negotiate or decide our long term relationship with them.

The biggest problem, is that both sides of the argument are just as ignorant and stupid as the other, as they deal in absolutes and fear, both sides think we will be severing all ties with the EU, with one side thinking we will stride mightly into the future with the Union Jack flying on every corner, bent bananas and no more eastern Europeans, the other side thinks we will collapse into a mad max style apocalypse were everyone who cant prove they were born within spitting distance of the bow bells back 6 generations will be lined up and shot, no food on the shelves and their children dying in their arms because there is no medicine.

Neither side seem to grasp that countries dont work like that, they ignore every other country that has left a long term political union (like most of Europe, India, parts of Africa, the United States) and instead think that the UK will be some special exception in what actually happens.
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So essentially everyone is an idiot apart from you?
 
Paul the Wolf said:
Dial 999 - call the police
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Was having a chat with a couple of folks about no deal brexit... How prepared the business is etc...
Somebody pointed out about the blitz spirit and how we will be just fine whatever happened
Somebody else pointed out that the police had to go on the national news asking people not to dial 999 when KFC ran out of chicken for a few days.

If nandos or maccy-d's goes down I'm with the Kaiser chiefs... There's gonna be riots
 
Stanley Road said:
If Nissan is your only means of work, as was ship building, as was mining, then its not hard to see why the north eastern people are angry. Total neglect.
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They’ve created the environment now for Nissan to go, after the government lied to the people about guarantees.

The government closed the mines etc but for years have managed to blame everyone else, including the big bad EU. The buck should stop with the Tories, every time they’ve been in power they’ve screwed someone over
 
balaks said:
So essentially everyone is an idiot apart from you?
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And millions of others who arent crying about the sky falling in or parading around like its VE day yes.

I mean I am genuinely sorry if i come over as flippant, but having survived around 8 (probably more) apocalypses predicted by various experts and governements, I am not attributing too much weight to this one.
 
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Ducklegs said:
Neither side seem to grasp that countries dont work like that, they ignore every other country that has left a long term political union (like most of Europe, India, parts of Africa, the United States) and instead think that the UK will be some special exception in what actually happens.
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Do you know what happened in a lot of those countries who left "political unions" (i.e. gaining freedom from colonialism)

Civil wars.
 
Ducklegs said:
The problem is most people (be they ignorant right wing mouth breather, or cowardly left wing snowflake) think the withdrawl agreement is the permanent agreement with the EU, and not the interim framework we will be dealing with the EU under while we negotiate or decide our long term relationship with them.

The biggest problem, is that both sides of the argument are just as ignorant and stupid as the other, as they deal in absolutes and fear, both sides think we will be severing all ties with the EU, with one side thinking we will stride mightly into the future with the Union Jack flying on every corner, bent bananas and no more eastern Europeans, the other side thinks we will collapse into a mad max style apocalypse were everyone who cant prove they were born within spitting distance of the bow bells back 6 generations will be lined up and shot, no food on the shelves and their children dying in their arms because there is no medicine.

Neither side seem to grasp that countries dont work like that, they ignore every other country that has left a long term political union (like most of Europe, India, parts of Africa, the United States) and instead think that the UK will be some special exception in what actually happens.
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Few things here.

Why are so many things portrayed as both sides being equally wrong/ equally stupid etc? I don't agree with that at all.

I'm interested to know which countries have left a long term political union and which countries and political unions you're referring to there? Especially when you reference countries like India (partition, mass deaths, ethnic cleaning and mass migrations of people), USA (war against the British), parts of Africa (most of our countries only managed to usurp colonisation through mass uprisings/ civil war and then the majority of the continent fell into one party dictatorships, with the former colonial power often still controlling things from a distance) and Europe (what were the political unions in Europe? You mean pan European Empires?). If you're referencing some other events, I'd be genuinely interested to hear them.

Also out of interest, what are these various apocalypses the government and experts predicted and didn't come to fruition? You also must surely appreciate that at least part of the reason they didn't happen is through large scale contingency planning?
 

I can't remember my history well but weren't we the biggest recipients of the Marshall Plan?
 
The worst thing about brexit is how we have accepted the complete disregard for the truth from our politicians.
 
Adisa said:
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Didn't the UK receive more than any country from the Marshall plan? And Britain 'helped to liberate' half of Europe for the same reason that Britain 'helped to liberate' Europe from Napoleon. It was unacceptable geopolitically for the Brits for one country to become a hegemon on European soil.

'We will remember'. You absolute prick.

I would be genuinely fuming if I was a European hearing some of the utter vitriol coming out of our politicians' mouths. Do we have equivalent from European politicians about us?
 
Adisa said:
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:D

There's Trumps everywhere now. Putin's done a great job.

Right out of Trumps playbook:
It was reported in early November 2017 that Kawczynski had been reprimanded in front of witnesses by Eleanor Laing, the Conservative MP and deputy speaker, for asking a young researcher employed by Laing to go on a date with a rich businessman contact of his who was "older than her father".[38] The incident in January 2013, according to Channel 4 News in November 2017, was preceded by an intermediary making the same approach several times. Laura Hughes, writing for The Daily Telegraph, reported that Kawczynski has been referred to the Conservative's new disciplinary committee. He has admitted to the incident, but rejects the accusation of inappropriate conduct
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MP tries to hoe out staffer and see's nothing inappropriate in it :lol:
 
Ducklegs said:
The problem is most people (be they ignorant right wing mouth breather, or cowardly left wing snowflake) think the withdrawl agreement is the permanent agreement with the EU, and not the interim framework we will be dealing with the EU under while we negotiate or decide our long term relationship with them.

The biggest problem, is that both sides of the argument are just as ignorant and stupid as the other, as they deal in absolutes and fear, both sides think we will be severing all ties with the EU, with one side thinking we will stride mightly into the future with the Union Jack flying on every corner, bent bananas and no more eastern Europeans, the other side thinks we will collapse into a mad max style apocalypse were everyone who cant prove they were born within spitting distance of the bow bells back 6 generations will be lined up and shot, no food on the shelves and their children dying in their arms because there is no medicine.

Neither side seem to grasp that countries dont work like that, they ignore every other country that has left a long term political union (like most of Europe, India, parts of Africa, the United States) and instead think that the UK will be some special exception in what actually happens.
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The flaw in your argument is that there is very little, if any, downside to staying in the EU whereas leaving will be an utter clusterfeck.
 
It's been one of the most depressing things about Brexit, the fact that we're now so cynical that people just accept that politicians are going to lie and be completely disingenuous as if that's part of what we expect of them. Brexiters talk about the 2016 referendum as some great display of democracy which must be adhered to or it threatens our democracy forever, when in reality the winning side just repeatedly lied and made false promises as well as breaking electoral laws yet somehow that's OK because they got more votes. Ignoring that the rest of his tweet is just disgraceful, even by the standards of a hard Brexit Tory MP.
 
Adisa said:

I can't remember my history well but weren't we the biggest recipients of the Marshall Plan?
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I think people might also remember that this scumbag ran off to an EU country to try and get them to block the will of our parlaiment.

And he's the one who previously made bullshit claims about lemons imports and resoundly got mocked for it.

Hopefully his constituents remember all this when they next come to vote.
 
Ducklegs said:
And millions of others who arent crying about the sky falling in or parading around like its VE day yes.

I mean I am genuinely sorry if i come over as flippant, but having survived around 8 (probably more) apocalypses predicted by various experts and governements, I am not attributing too much weight to this one.
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You really should be. Leaving will be, and already is, a disaster. If we leave without a deal doubly so.

Your lack of comprehension isn't really a good argument for not worrying I'm afraid.
 
africanspur said:
Few things here.

Why are so many things portrayed as both sides being equally wrong/ equally stupid etc? I don't agree with that at all.

I'm interested to know which countries have left a long term political union and which countries and political unions you're referring to there? Especially when you reference countries like India (partition, mass deaths, ethnic cleaning and mass migrations of people), USA (war against the British), parts of Africa (most of our countries only managed to usurp colonisation through mass uprisings/ civil war and then the majority of the continent fell into one party dictatorships, with the former colonial power often still controlling things from a distance) and Europe (what were the political unions in Europe? You mean pan European Empires?). If you're referencing some other events, I'd be genuinely interested to hear them.

Also out of interest, what are these various apocalypses the government and experts predicted and didn't come to fruition? You also must surely appreciate that at least part of the reason they didn't happen is through large scale contingency planning?
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Exactly this. I'm looking forward to the reply to this too.
 
africanspur said:
Few things here.

Why are so many things portrayed as both sides being equally wrong/ equally stupid etc? I don't agree with that at all.

I'm interested to know which countries have left a long term political union and which countries and political unions you're referring to there? Especially when you reference countries like India (partition, mass deaths, ethnic cleaning and mass migrations of people), USA (war against the British), parts of Africa (most of our countries only managed to usurp colonisation through mass uprisings/ civil war and then the majority of the continent fell into one party dictatorships, with the former colonial power often still controlling things from a distance) and Europe (what were the political unions in Europe? You mean pan European Empires?). If you're referencing some other events, I'd be genuinely interested to hear them.

Also out of interest, what are these various apocalypses the government and experts predicted and didn't come to fruition? You also must surely appreciate that at least part of the reason they didn't happen is through large scale contingency planning?
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Contingency plans and working towards avoiding a disaster is not the point at hand, the point at hand is people are saying disaster is inevitable regardless of what planning and work is done to mitigate it.

Do you see?

My examples were probably not the best, as none of those countries at the time were a G7 powerhouse from the civilised west, but if you have never heard of the Czech republic, Slovakia, Lativa, Montengro, Serbia, Georgia, Armenia, Moldova, Belarus, Ukraine, Boznia and Hertzegovina etc etc etc all either gaining independence from a larger political union or from a former occupation then......

Yeah.

The situation in the UK is a lot, lot different, its not breaking from a overbearing ruling political system, its not part of an empire, its not occupied, its separating from a consensual economic and partial political partnership which is a lot less dramatic.
 
Ducklegs said:
Contingency plans and working towards avoiding a disaster is not the point at hand, the point at hand is people are saying disaster is inevitable regardless of what planning and work is done to mitigate it.

Do you see?

My examples were probably not the best, as none of those countries at the time were a G7 powerhouse from the civilised west, but if you have never heard of the Czech republic, Slovakia, Lativa, Montengro, Serbia, Georgia, Armenia, Moldova, Belarus, Ukraine, Boznia and Hertzegovina etc etc etc all either gaining independence from a larger political union or from a former occupation then......

Yeah.

The situation in the UK is a lot, lot different, its not breaking from a overbearing ruling political system, its not part of an empire, its not occupied, its separating from a consensual economic and partial political partnership which is a lot less dramatic.
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Some serious amount of bloodshed in those countries mentioned, some right up to the present day, and quite a lot of civil conflict post-independence.
 
Adisa said:

I can't remember my history well but weren't we the biggest recipients of the Marshall Plan?
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This is the same guy who asked Poland to veto any attempt to get an extension

Is he trying too hard because of his surname? Presumably he’s off polish descent

Also I believe he’s up to his eyes in gold speculation, the price will spike in the event of a hard brexit
 
unchanged_lineup said:
Some serious amount of bloodshed in those countries mentioned, some right up to the present day.
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And the one in the middle that you didn't pick is interesting. Belarus is one of the worst example possible.
 
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