Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

[Rightnr]

My point was that you can use the polls by looking at trends. For example, the closer we got to Brexit day, the narrower the polls became.

If polls are pointing to discontent now, that is also a valid conclusion. You cannot predict accurately but you can make high-level observations based on recorded data.

That is how I look at polls at least.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Another idea, England and Wales leave the UK

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/dec/12/england-wales-eu-brexit-article-50

 

[AshfordLad]

While this is an idiotic idea in context of Brexit, sooner or later the English do need to get a choice of dissolving the Union. The scots just cant be allowed to keep taking the piss with this good cop bad cop routine or voting no in referendum and then sending in snp to negotiate for more.

 

[Xeno]

English votes for English laws is at once both a fairly common-sense, uncontroversial political notion and a rallying cry for every right-wing, xenophobic bigot.

 

[Stanley Road]

Another idea, England and Wales leave the UK

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/dec/12/england-wales-eu-brexit-article-50

What currency would everyone use?

 

[Paul the Wolf]

What currency would everyone use?

Groats

 

[Stanley Road]

Scrotes?

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Scrotes?

There's a lot of them about

 

[jackofalltrades]

Time to start negotiating with the WTO. Only around 160 countries so it'll be done in no time. Spain and Argentina will delighted.

 

[Bury Red]

What currency would everyone use?

I'm assuming we would continue with the ever diminishing pound whilst Scotland and NI would have a couple of years to transition to the Euro which I doubt would be a problem for wither of them and may even be a big boost to cross border business for NI.

 

[devilish]

Another idea, England and Wales leave the UK

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/dec/12/england-wales-eu-brexit-article-50

London should join them too. Imagine how England would fare without its food basket. Oh well there's always Liverpool

 

[Stanley Road]

I'm assuming we would continue with the ever diminishing pound whilst Scotland and NI would have a couple of years to transition to the Euro which I doubt would be a problem for wither of them and may even be a big boost to cross border business for NI.

You make it sound so simple, don't forget its the eu they would be dealing with which we all know take an age to do anything.

 

[Bury Red]

You make it sound so simple, don't forget its the eu they would be dealing with which we all know take an age to do anything.

But 2 years negotiations should be fine to secure the future of the UK which is why you favoured Brexit in the first place?

A currency switch shouldn't be a major issue especially as all the banks and most of the businesses have to be capable of dealing in Euros already. I don't see it happening, but the suggestion in the Guardian is fairly straightforward with the UK remaining in the EU (and in my suggestion accepting the Euro as sole currency) whilst England and Wales leave the United Kingdom and therefore the EU without the need to activate Article 50 but remain a part of Great Britain and have an open agenda for negotiating new trade deals straight away.

 

[devilish]

But 2 years negotiations should be fine to secure the future of the UK which is why you favoured Brexit in the first place?

A currency switch shouldn't be a major issue especially as all the banks and most of the businesses have to be capable of dealing in Euros already. I don't see it happening, but the suggestion in the Guardian is fairly straightforward with the UK remaining in the EU (and in my suggestion accepting the Euro as sole currency) whilst England and Wales leave the United Kingdom and therefore the EU without the need to activate Article 50 but remain a part of Great Britain and have an open agenda for negotiating new trade deals straight away.

Will the EU accept with having the English and the Welsh being treated as citizens of the EU without them offering the same to all 28 members of the EU?

 

[Paul the Wolf]

London should join them too. Imagine how England would fare without its food basket. Oh well there's always Liverpool

Or the oil and the finance if London left too

 

[devilish]

Or the oil and the finance if London left too

Hard borders will be necessary to keep non EU immigrants from 'stealing jobs'.

 

[Bury Red]

Will the EU accept with having the English and the Welsh being treated as citizens of the EU without them offering the same to all 28 members of the EU?

This isn't the Associate citizenship option floated by EU moderates last week, it's the Guardian's suggestion that the UK stays in the EU but that England and Wales leave the UK and EU and erect a border with Scotland. That way there would be no need to activate Article 50 as the UK (Scotland and NI) would continue uninterrupted and to ease the issue of currency within GB would probably opt to switch to the Euro.

It's theoretical as no EU country has split in such a way but should not legally require the triggering of Article 50.

 

[Bury Red]

Hard borders will be necessary to keep non EU immigrants from 'stealing jobs'.

We've already got the border queues in place, we just call it the M25 at present

 

[devilish]

This isn't the Associate citizenship option floated by EU moderates last week, it's the Guardian's suggestion that the UK stays in the EU but that England and Wales leave the UK and EU and erect a border with Scotland. That way there would be no need to activate Article 50 as the UK (Scotland and NI) would continue uninterrupted and to ease the issue of currency within GB would probably opt to switch to the Euro.

It's theoretical as no EU country has split in such a way but should not legally require the triggering of Article 50.

However the EU will suggest that the UK that was an EU member before Brexit is not the same UK that would be after that change, therefore they need to leave the EU and reapply. Spain will be quite fussy on that considering its issue with Catalonia.

 

[Bury Red]

However the EU will suggest that the UK that was an EU member before Brexit is not the same UK that would be after that change, therefore they need to leave the EU and reapply. Spain will be quite fussy on that considering its issue with Catalonia.

How does that affect anything? Devolving the UK has nothing to do with the Catalan situation, Scotland and NI already have their own devolved parliaments and rule of law and technically even their own currencies although they are pegged to sterling and interchangeable.

This is not like Scotland or NI forming a break away from an unwilling UK but a continuation of the devolution that is already well underway and a means of avoiding Scotland and NI leaving the EU then needing to reapply. Their payment terms and number of parliamentary seats would need to be adjusted but other than that there should not be any realistic objection from any European country.

 

[devilish]

How does that affect anything? Devolving the UK has nothing to do with the Catalan situation, Scotland and NI already have their own devolved parliaments and rule of law and technically even their own currencies although they are pegged to sterling and interchangeable.

This is not like Scotland or NI forming a break away from an unwilling UK but a continuation of the devolution that is already well underway and a means of avoiding Scotland and NI leaving the EU then needing to reapply. Their payment terms and number of parliamentary seats would need to be adjusted but other than that there should not be any realistic objection from any European country.

It does.

The UK have gained alot of opt outs in the past years and will the new UK will be far weaker then the old UK. Also through dual citizenship + mutual trade deal Wales/England will enjoy most of the benefits of being part of the EU without actually being part of the EU. That's the sort of cherry picking most EU countries doesn't want.

 

[barros]

EU is a failure and would be a disaster when crashes at least UK would be already out. The idea was good the intentions not so good, I believe in an economic bloc but not political, were aren't like US and will not work, too many languages and cultures and too many interests, the bigger countries always getting the front seat. The reason we have the electoral system in US is to protect the smaller states and we can see in EU would be no protection at all, if France and Germany decide to elect someone then they would win all the time. When the economy is bad the US federal government injects money in those states from money coming from richer states and what the EU did with Greece and Portugal showed to the Europeans the EU was made for the smaller states to buy goods from the bigger/richer states with loans from the same bigger/richer states to the point they are completely broken.

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

European citizens living in UK should remain under jurisdiction of EU law after Brexit, radical new plan proposes

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...itizens-living-uk-should-remain-jurisdiction/



If this is how the EU intends to negotiate it is going to be a very short opening discussion. But of course it is the UK Gov who are unreasonable.

 

[Bury Red]

It does.

The UK have gained alot of opt outs in the past years and will the new UK will be far weaker then the old UK. Also through dual citizenship + mutual trade deal Wales/England will enjoy most of the benefits of being part of the EU without actually being part of the EU. That's the sort of cherry picking most EU countries doesn't want.

None of which has anything to do with the Catalan situation.

Borders with Scotland would have to go up and only Scottish and Northern Irish Citizens would remain within the EU. I'm sure you'll have some in the UK and Wales applying for dual nationality on the basis that their great aunt's budgies third cousin was Scottish or even more ludicrous qualifications like being eligible to play for the Northern Irish football team but how will that be any different to the likes of @Paul the Wolf finalizing his French citizenship application ahead of Brexit or slimy Farage slithering into a German embassy.

Scotland and NI (and most likely Gibraltar and the Channel Islands) will need to renegotiate their terms with the EU based on smaller populations, GDP etc and won't get all the deals the UK had previously negotiated but this isn't cherry picking by England (we're out) nor by Scotland, they're simply saving themselves the grief of leaving along with England and then splitting and having to go to the back of the queue for readmittance and all the financial implications that would have.

 

[sullydnl]

Would also bypass any issues with the NI border.

 

[Abizzz]

EU is a failure and would be a disaster when crashes at least UK would be already out. The idea was good the intentions not so good, I believe in an economic bloc but not political, were aren't like US and will not work, too many languages and cultures and too many interests, the bigger countries always getting the front seat. The reason we have the electoral system in US is to protect the smaller states and we can see in EU would be no protection at all, if France and Germany decide to elect someone then they would win all the time. When the economy is bad the US federal government injects money in those states from money coming from richer states and what the EU did with Greece and Portugal showed to the Europeans the EU was made for the smaller states to buy goods from the bigger/richer states with loans from the same bigger/richer states to the point they are completely broken.

That is just not true in a EU with 28 (27) countries. If it were true Draghi wouldn't be ECB president.
Having been to Michigan (my moms from Detroit), Ohio, Pennsylvania etc. the second point is a joke. Athens and Thessaloniki are in a lot better state than Detroit, Flint or Cleveland (From pretty much every perspective). I don't see any Alaskan oil money rescuing Detroit workers. When the City of Detroit had to file for bankruptcy a lot of it's pensioners had to take huge cuts or were duped out of the money they were due entirely. Greek pensioners are having to deal with a lot, but they're not left with nothing.

 

[Stanley Road]

None of which has anything to do with the Catalan situation.

I think he may be implying that spain will veto everything they can with regard to the uk as they don't want Catalonians to see a better world out there, Gibraltar being another target for spain.

 

[Bury Red]

I think he may be implying that spain will veto everything they can with regard to the uk as they don't want Catalonians to see a better world out there, Gibraltar being another target for spain.

I still don't see the relevance, Catalonia want independence from Spain and would be out of the EU automatically if they won it which I doubt Spain will ever allow them to. In no way comparable to an amicable dissolution of the UK to allow those who want to leave the EU out without adversely affecting the parts that wish to remain. A weaker Gibraltar backed by Holyrood instead of Westminster would be a far less contentious neighbour for Spain.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

EU is a failure and would be a disaster when crashes at least UK would be already out. The idea was good the intentions not so good, I believe in an economic bloc but not political, were aren't like US and will not work, too many languages and cultures and too many interests, the bigger countries always getting the front seat. The reason we have the electoral system in US is to protect the smaller states and we can see in EU would be no protection at all, if France and Germany decide to elect someone then they would win all the time. When the economy is bad the US federal government injects money in those states from money coming from richer states and what the EU did with Greece and Portugal showed to the Europeans the EU was made for the smaller states to buy goods from the bigger/richer states with loans from the same bigger/richer states to the point they are completely broken.

Doesn't the number of votes, seats in the US depend on the population of the said states - ie the same as the EU?

 

[711]

EU is a failure and would be a disaster when crashes at least UK would be already out. The idea was good the intentions not so good, I believe in an economic bloc but not political, were aren't like US and will not work, too many languages and cultures and too many interests, the bigger countries always getting the front seat. The reason we have the electoral system in US is to protect the smaller states and we can see in EU would be no protection at all, if France and Germany decide to elect someone then they would win all the time. When the economy is bad the US federal government injects money in those states from money coming from richer states and what the EU did with Greece and Portugal showed to the Europeans the EU was made for the smaller states to buy goods from the bigger/richer states with loans from the same bigger/richer states to the point they are completely broken.

This is where Brexiters get it wrong. It's why the theory that 'the EU will give us what we want because Germany wants to sell cars' is also wrong, as East and South Europe would veto such a thing.

 

[Ramshock]

Would also bypass any issues with the NI border.

I know a lot will hate to hear this but Brexit could be the beginning of the end of the border between NI and ROI

 

[Paul the Wolf]

None of which has anything to do with the Catalan situation.

Borders with Scotland would have to go up and only Scottish and Northern Irish Citizens would remain within the EU. I'm sure you'll have some in the UK and Wales applying for dual nationality on the basis that their great aunt's budgies third cousin was Scottish or even more ludicrous qualifications like being eligible to play for the Northern Irish football team but how will that be any different to the likes of @Paul the Wolf finalizing his French citizenship application ahead of Brexit or slimy Farage slithering into a German embassy.

Scotland and NI (and most likely Gibraltar and the Channel Islands) will need to renegotiate their terms with the EU based on smaller populations, GDP etc and won't get all the deals the UK had previously negotiated but this isn't cherry picking by England (we're out) nor by Scotland, they're simply saving themselves the grief of leaving along with England and then splitting and having to go to the back of the queue for readmittance and all the financial implications that would have.

Even if the UK were remaining in the EU I was seriously thinking of becoming a French national because I never intended to go back to live in the UK - now not only because of the vote but the way the country is becoming even more insular and xenophobic I have no pride in saying I'm British, bloody embarrassed actually.

 

[Bury Red]

Even if the UK were remaining in the EU I was seriously thinking of becoming a French national because I never intended to go back to live in the UK - now not only because of the vote but the way the country is becoming even more insular and xenophobic I have no pride in saying I'm British, bloody embarrassed actually.

I used to pretend to be French when we went skiing on my year out in Grenoble as it was too bloody embarrassing admitting to being English due to the behaviour of the pissed up hooray Henrys and Henriettas who thought that lift queues were something that only those foreign types did. It is sad to realise that we're now looking at such a large portion of our fellow countrymen who are so thoroughly repugnant.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

I used to pretend to be French when we went skiing on my year out in Grenoble as it was too bloody embarrassing admitting to being English due to the behaviour of the pissed up hooray Henrys and Henriettas who thought that lift queues were something that only those foreign types did. It is sad to realise that we're now looking at such a large portion of our fellow countrymen who are so thoroughly repugnant.

I bet they weren't talking to each other in French as they patiently waited in the queue, as now anyone who happens to find themselves in the UK must only speak English.

 

[Crossie]

EU citizenship deal for British nationals has no chance, say experts
Britons getting special rights in Europe – as supported by EU’s Brexit negotiator Guy Verhofstadt – seen as very unlikely
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...r-british-nationals-has-no-chance-say-experts

Pretty much expected.

 

[711]

I know a lot will hate to hear this but Brexit could be the beginning of the end of the border between NI and ROI

It could, but it's an absolute nightmare, and the politicians are just saying don't worry whilst hoping the problem will go away.

No border at all means no control over immigration to England, contrary to what England voted for.
Border controls with Eire will infuriate the nationalists.
Border controls at the mainland ports and airports will infuriate the Unionists.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Imagine the queues at Dover

 

[devilish]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ded-to-avert-banking-job-losses-peers-to-warn

Tens of thousands of banking jobs could be lost to continental Europe starting from next year if ministers do not agree a transitional deal with the EU, a Lords report on financial services after Brexit is expected to warn.

 

[sullydnl]

It could, but it's an absolute nightmare, and the politicians are just saying don't worry whilst hoping the problem will go away.

No border at all means no control over immigration to England, contrary to what England voted for.
Border controls with Eire will infuriate the nationalists.
Border controls at the mainland ports and airports will infuriate the Unionists.

While also enriching paramilitary smugglers. An unhappy combination.

 

[Ramshock]

It could, but it's an absolute nightmare, and the politicians are just saying don't worry whilst hoping the problem will go away.

No border at all means no control over immigration to England, contrary to what England voted for.
Border controls with Eire will infuriate the nationalists.
Border controls at the mainland ports and airports will infuriate the Unionists.

I think there are more economic problems that will be more immediate.