Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

[Dobba]

what's 'you lot' mean? UK citizens?

Could have sworn you were one of those who were complaining the loudest about the perception that Leave voters were stupid and/or racist and instead were looking out for themselves? Seems a bit odd to then mock someone for looking out for themselves - especially when it appears they're actually willing to do something rather than just whinge.

 

[Chorley1974]

Could have sworn you were one of those who were complaining the loudest about the perception that Leave voters were stupid and/or racist and instead were looking out for themselves? Seems a bit odd to then mock someone for looking out for themselves - especially when it appears they're actually willing to do something rather than just whinge.

It was a genuine question, not mocking anyone, wanted a clarification as to what you lot means.

 

[Kentonio]

No it will be directly related, but to pretend that the EU promoted and built London as a financial powerhouse is somewhat different, no?

I don't remember saying that, I'm fairly sure you brought it up. The point you're trying to disguise with this is that pre-EU Britain was a mess, and a large part of our recovery came from our access to the single market and the increasing prosperity and cooperation of Europe.

When you say 'I can understand that if you're from a generation that never knew anything other than the EU that their is some nervousness' then like many other people have, you're trying to mislead people into thinking Britain was in a great position back then. It wasn't. Some of us still remember being the 'sick man of Europe' and have zero desire to go back to it.

 

[Pexbo]

They have immigration control (they're obviously racist lol), on what basis would you qualify?

I'll have a Computer Science degree in 3 years and they're crying out for IT experts, my old Boss/Head Chef's sister heads up the IT division for Commonwealth Bank in Sydney and he said she'd get me in no problem. Failing that, if I was desperate, I've already been offered sponsorship by a restaurant in Perth a couple of years ago so I'd pursue that route again until a permanent VISA was in place.

 

[Chorley1974]

I don't remember saying that, I'm fairly sure you brought it up. The point you're trying to disguise with this is that pre-EU Britain was a mess, and a large part of our recovery came from our access to the single market and the increasing prosperity and cooperation of Europe.

When you say 'I can understand that if you're from a generation that never knew anything other than the EU that their is some nervousness' then like many other people have, you're trying to mislead people into thinking Britain was in a great position back then. It wasn't. Some of us still remember being the 'sick man of Europe' and have zero desire to go back to it.

Lot's of british companies expired once in the EU, and lots prospered, my point was only that the unknown is scary. I'm not the wealthy elite, I'm a student of economics in my poor education. The whole we're doomed scenario I just find a bit weird, countries need to trade, and unless the EU is adamant on damaging it's member states as a point of principal against the UK then there will be a deal done. History may not even tell us as to whether the UK's massive net contribution to the UK was value for money.

 

[Chorley1974]

I'll have a Computer Science degree in 3 years and they're crying out for IT experts, my old Boss/Head Chef's sister heads up the IT division for Commonwealth Bank in Sydney and he said she'd get me in no problem. Failing that, if I was desperate, I've already been offered sponsorship by a restaurant in Perth a couple of years ago so I'd pursue that route again until a permanent VISA was in place.

Great, go for it, I can only recommend living and working in another country. Having done it myself, can only say why not if you have the opportunity. Slightly confused as to wtf brexit would have to do with it, if you have the opportunity to do it, then why not.

 

[Kentonio]

Lot's of british companies expired once in the EU, and lots prospered, my point was only that the unknown is scary. I'm not the wealthy elite, I'm a student of economics in my poor education. The whole we're doomed scenario I just find a bit weird, countries need to trade, and unless the EU is adamant on damaging it's member states as a point of principal against the UK then there will be a deal done. History may not even tell us as to whether the UK's massive net contribution to the UK was value for money.

The UK became a wealthy country in large part off the back of trade with Europe. It's a huge part of our economy, and plenty more (such as the financial services in London) rely on EU links. Dropping out of not just the EU but the single market as well is not just scary, its fecking terrifying. Four decades of cooperation and trade has just been thrown away with no concrete alternative offered. How exactly are we supposed to feel confidence? What single, solitary thing has this ridiculous government done that should provide us with even a second of faith that the future can be brighter than the present?

 

[Chorley1974]

The UK became a wealthy country in large part off the back of trade with Europe. It's a huge part of our economy, and plenty more (such as the financial services in London) rely on EU links. Dropping out of not just the EU but the single market as well is not just scary, its fecking terrifying. Four decades of cooperation and trade has just been thrown away with no concrete alternative offered. How exactly are we supposed to feel confidence? What single, solitary thing has this ridiculous government done that should provide us with even a second of faith that the future can be brighter than the present?

I can understand you feel scared, I don't understand why you blame the government though, they are rather reluctantly following through on a decision of the people. Cameron decked up big time, he didn't get the result he wanted, so you can't really say it's a government decision.
Why feel positive, being outside the CAP will make food imports cheaper, we can still have immigration, we can get our fishing grounds back, we won't pay a massive surplus into the EU, we can pursue and expand our trade outside of the EU, we will have our legislation back. I didn't vote to leave, I simply would rather see the opportunity rather than take my ball home.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

When you say the UK, who do you mean, the general public, the government? It's clear the UK needs these workers, but anyone I know who voted brexit did because of the inability to control the borders overall, and the growing EU legal/government span. Migration of labor has always happened, it's not an EU invention.

Those that voted Brexit and those that encouraged the voters to vote thus; of course they need these workers, people to work in the NHS, labourers, people to pick fruit and veg and so on, jobs Brits don't seem to want to do. The Uk have complete control over immigrants from outside the EU but they are close to 200000 alone, what has stopped them controlling them until now and asylum seekers are so few compared to many other EU countries. As pointed out many times before there are controls over EU immigrants as well and all this has been blamed on the EU because the government have not been able or willing to until now. Likelihood is nothing will change after the UK leave the EU either.

If and when the UK abandons the ECJ will there be an improvement for the better?

 

[vidic blood & sand]

The UK became a wealthy country in large part off the back of trade with Europe.

No. The big corporations became wealthy, as they were able to afford to conform to the EU's strict regulations and standards.

It's a huge part of our economy, and plenty more (such as the financial services in London) rely on EU links.

So what is stopping these links?
Have you stopped to think about the fact that it is the EU, not the European customers who we trade with?

Dropping out of not just the EU but the single market as well is not just scary, its fecking terrifying.

Leaving the EU presents challenges for the big corporations, because all of a sudden they face competition from small businesses unable to afford to meet the ridiculously strict EU regulations

Four decades of cooperation and trade has just been thrown away with no concrete alternative offered.

Like trade with the world?

How exactly are we supposed to feel confidence? What single, solitary thing has this ridiculous government done that should provide us with even a second of faith that the future can be brighter than the present?

So you believe that a bunch of bureaucrats in Brussels hold the power over our nation's prosperity, and you want to crawl back to them and kiss their arse?

Go ahead!

 

[Kentonio]

I can understand you feel scared, I don't understand why you blame the government though, they are rather reluctantly following through on a decision of the people. Cameron decked up big time, he didn't get the result he wanted, so you can't really say it's a government decision.

The government chose to interpret a single sentence 'Should the UK remain a member of the EU or leave the EU?' and translate that into 'Britain has voted to leave not only the EU but the single market and carry out the hardest possible Brexit'. This despite even the Leave campaigners repeatedly hammering home before the vote that in no way would a Brexit mean leaving the single market. They also spent 9 months making an enormous mess of things, sending mixed messages to everyone before deciding on hard Brexit, and offending and insulting the same European countries they insist they want to remain friends with.

Why feel positive, being outside the CAP will make food imports cheaper, we can still have immigration, we can get our fishing grounds back, we won't pay a massive surplus into the EU, we can pursue and expand our trade outside of the EU, we will have our legislation back. I didn't vote to leave, I simply would rather see the opportunity rather than take my ball home.

Why would food imports be cheaper, when the value of the pound has fallen dramatically? We can still have immigration, but we've just made the country far less attractive to prospective immigrants. We can get back fishing grounds, that were drastically overfarmed in the past by us, and incidentally lose our rights to vote in other EU countries grounds. We won't pay a massive surplus into the EU, and we'll lose our tariff free access to the single market as a result. We can trade outside the EU, just like we already can, but for some reason appear to have chosen not to. Germany for instance have twice as much trade with India as we do. Why is that if the EU is such a barrier to outside trade?

It just feels like the country has done something so outrageously stupid that there really isn't a bright light waiting at the end of the tunnel.

 

[Stanley Road]

The UK became a wealthy country in large part off the back of trade with Europe. It's a huge part of our economy, and plenty more (such as the financial services in London) rely on EU links. Dropping out of not just the EU but the single market as well is not just scary, its fecking terrifying. Four decades of cooperation and trade has just been thrown away with no concrete alternative offered. How exactly are we supposed to feel confidence? What single, solitary thing has this ridiculous government done that should provide us with even a second of faith that the future can be brighter than the present?

You'd think London only provided financial services for Europe, crazy

 

[Stanley Road]

Australia or New Zealand.

Why not somewhere in the prosperous EU, Greece for example?

 

[vidic blood & sand]

People who remember the time before the EU should be the most worried, we were fecked in the 70's.

Decline in manufacturing was due to our own ridiculous regulations. The kind of regulations that countries like Germany did not implement. Now that they have implemented them on behalf of the EU, the member countries of the EU are now struggling as we did.

 

[Kentonio]

No. The big corporations became wealthy, as they were able to afford to conform to the EU's strict regulations and standards.

Do you know how much people had to spend on food 50 years ago? It was 30% of their income. Today the number is 15%. There's a lot less job security today, but living standards are considerably higher than they were pre-EU.

So what is stopping these links?
Have you stopped to think about the fact that it is the EU, not the European customers who we trade with?

You mean like when the EU inevitably pull euro clearing inside the eurozone, costing London a huge number of jobs and money? I have no idea what you're talking about in the second part.

Leaving the EU presents challenges for the big corporations, because all of a sudden they face competition from small businesses unable to afford to meet the ridiculously strict EU regulations

What kind of ridiculous nonsense is this? You think Britain is suddenly going to become a haven for small business at the expense of big corporations? With a Tory government? The EU is one of the few organization around who regularly go after big corporations on issues like monopolization, and its the UK who usually looks out for corporations interests wherever possible.

As for 'ridiculously strict EU regulations', no I have no desire to drop product standards and eat away at health and safety and workers rights protections so that any business big or small can feck over the customer and their workers to increase their profitability.

Like trade with the world?

We already trade with the world for goodness sake!

So you believe that a bunch of bureaucrats in Brussels hold the power over our nation's prosperity, and you want to crawl back to them and kiss their arse?

Go ahead!

I'd trust the EU to look out for the best interests of our citizens than the ridiculous shower of shite we have in Westminster any day of the week, yes.

 

[Kentonio]

Decline in manufacturing was due to our own ridiculous regulations. The kind of regulations that countries like Germany did not implement. Now that they have implemented them on behalf of the EU, the member countries of the EU are now struggling as we did.

Which is why Germany has higher growth and a larger GDP than us?

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Do Brexiters understand that the UK already trades with the rest of the world?
No.1 destination for exports is already the USA and no.4 is China
On the import side no.2 supplier is the USA and no.3 is China

 

[Chorley1974]

Those that voted Brexit and those that encouraged the voters to vote thus; of course they need these workers, people to work in the NHS, labourers, people to pick fruit and veg and so on, jobs Brits don't seem to want to do. The Uk have complete control over immigrants from outside the EU but they are close to 200000 alone, what has stopped them controlling them until now and asylum seekers are so few compared to many other EU countries. As pointed out many times before there are controls over EU immigrants as well and all this has been blamed on the EU because the government have not been able or willing to until now. Likelihood is nothing will change after the UK leave the EU either.

If and when the UK abandons the ECJ will there be an improvement for the better?

 

[Chorley1974]

The government chose to interpret a single sentence 'Should the UK remain a member of the EU or leave the EU?' and translate that into 'Britain has voted to leave not only the EU but the single market and carry out the hardest possible Brexit'. This despite even the Leave campaigners repeatedly hammering home before the vote that in no way would a Brexit mean leaving the single market. They also spent 9 months making an enormous mess of things, sending mixed messages to everyone before deciding on hard Brexit, and offending and insulting the same European countries they insist they want to remain friends with.



Why would food imports be cheaper, when the value of the pound has fallen dramatically? We can still have immigration, but we've just made the country far less attractive to prospective immigrants. We can get back fishing grounds, that were drastically overfarmed in the past by us, and incidentally lose our rights to vote in other EU countries grounds. We won't pay a massive surplus into the EU, and we'll lose our tariff free access to the single market as a result. We can trade outside the EU, just like we already can, but for some reason appear to have chosen not to. Germany for instance have twice as much trade with India as we do. Why is that if the EU is such a barrier to outside trade?

It just feels like the country has done something so outrageously stupid that there really isn't a bright light waiting at the end of the tunnel.

CAP, do I need to spell it out in terms of paying farmers artificially high prices by paying farmers not to produce anything?

 

[Kentonio]

CAP, do I need to spell it out in terms of paying farmers artificially high prices by paying farmers not to produce anything?

Cool, so instead we'll just import cheap food from elsewhere and watch the UK agriculture industry collapse. Let's hope that there's never a food crisis elsewhere in the world (say as a result of climate change) if we're going to be completely dependent on imported food.

 

[Chorley1974]

Cool, so instead we'll just import cheap food from elsewhere and watch the UK agriculture industry collapse. Let's hope that there's never a food crisis elsewhere in the world (say as a result of climate change) if we're going to be completely dependent on imported food.

What a bizarre comment, we are already massively dependent on imported food. Interested to hear why you think paying farmers to keep fields fallow to inflate food prices is such good business.

 

[Kentonio]

What a bizarre comment, we are already massively dependent on imported food. Interested to hear why you think paying farmers to keep fields fallow to inflate food prices is such good business.

Food prices are inflated to protect agriculture. Yes we're already heavily reliant on imported food, however without farm subsidies we'd be pretty much entirely reliant on food imports. That would be an extremely dangerous thing, not to mention the livelihoods of more than half a million UK citizens who work in agriculture and the £9b or so a year it contributes to our economy.

 

[Chorley1974]

Food prices are inflated to protect agriculture. Yes we're already heavily reliant on imported food, however without farm subsidies we'd be pretty much entirely reliant on food imports. That would be an extremely dangerous thing, not to mention the livelihoods of more than half a million UK citizens who work in agriculture and the £9b or so a year it contributes to our economy.

Not sure the point here, or course we'd still subsidise, not to the extent though that we currently do.

 

[Kentonio]

Not sure the point here, or course we'd still subsidise, not to the extent though that we currently do.

So what level should we subsidize at that will not cost us tens of thousands of jobs?

 

[vidic blood & sand]

Which is why Germany has higher growth and a larger GDP than us?

Because our manufacturing was either sold off, or couldn't recover. Now the European countries with higher growth are those outside the EU.

 

[Kentonio]

Because our manufacturing was either sold off, or couldn't recover. Now the European countries with higher growth are those outside the EU.

Which ones? Also what did the EU have to do with us moving away from manufacturing?

 

[vidic blood & sand]

Do you know how much people had to spend on food 50 years ago? It was 30% of their income. Today the number is 15%. There's a lot less job security today, but living standards are considerably higher than they were pre-EU.

You reckon?

How many people were struggling with mortgages, fuel costs, and food prices 43 years ago?

You mean like when the EU inevitably pull euro clearing inside the eurozone, costing London a huge number of jobs and money? I have no idea what you're talking about in the second part.

You made my point. The EU is doing this, not the European countries. It seems that we have to belong to this club or they're gonna kneecap us, and you side with them?

What kind of ridiculous nonsense is this? You think Britain is suddenly going to become a haven for small business at the expense of big corporations? With a Tory government? The EU is one of the few organization around who regularly go after big corporations on issues like monopolization, and its the UK who usually looks out for corporations interests wherever possible.

As for 'ridiculously strict EU regulations', no I have no desire to drop product standards and eat away at health and safety and workers rights protections so that any business big or small can feck over the customer and their workers to increase their profitability.

This depends on how relevant the standards and regulations are. For example, how quiet a lawn mower must be?
The difference between a few decibels maybe irrelevant to us, but could cost a huge amount for a small business to pay for development and auditing.

We already trade with the world for goodness sake!

No. We trade with the rest of the world according to EU regulations.

I'd trust the EU to look out for the best interests of our citizens than the ridiculous shower of shite we have in Westminster any day of the week, yes.

You'd trust a union that, according to you, is now going to encourage the collapse of our economy?

 

[Dobba]

You'd trust a union that, according to you, is now going to encourage the collapse of our economy?

No, we did that.

 

[Mihajlovic]

After Brexit is completed I'm expecting a hefty payrise, cheaper food and petrol, paying less taxes and national insurance, cheaper flights to my favourite holiday destinations, scraping of university fees, cheaper gas and electric and guaranteed zero deposit zero percent mortgages so I can buy lots of properties. A dramatically improved weather would also be nice but I understand it's beyond the scope.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

You reckon?

How many people were struggling with mortgages, fuel costs, and food prices 43 years ago?

More people than do now and then we didn't have mobile phones, large screen TVs , computers or any luxuries, people have been better off as time has passed - you really have no idea.

 

[vidic blood & sand]

More people than do now and then we didn't have mobile phones, large screen TVs , computers or any luxuries, people have been better off as time has passed - you really have no idea.

No. It's you who has no idea.
Years ago, the difference between middle and working class wasn't as big as it is now. The tory government of the 80s made it very easy for council house owners to buy their homes. This gave the working class the ability to invest within their means, and gave the government a huge income. Since then these investments have risen to where the working class can barely afford to survive without the burden of huge debt that would not have been possible years ago.

Am I just talking to kids in this thread?

 

[Paul the Wolf]

No. It's you who has no idea.
Years ago, the difference between middle and working class wasn't as big as it is now. The tory government of the 80s made it very easy for council house owners to buy their homes. This gave the working class the ability to invest within their means, and gave the government a huge income. Since then these investments have risen to where the working class can barely afford to survive without the burden of huge debt that would not have been possible years ago.

Am I just talking to kids in this thread?

No I'm 61 and lived through it, you have no idea whatsoever at all , zilch. Absolutely ridiculous rubbish you are spouting.

 

[Chorley1974]

So what level should we subsidize at that will not cost us tens of thousands of jobs?

Great pushing my buttons, but you, me, and anyone else on here doesn't have a definitive answer, and nobody else will do. Of course you may do, and can enlighten us?

 

[vidic blood & sand]

No I'm 61 and lived through it, you have no idea whatsoever at all , zilch. Absolutely ridiculous rubbish you are spouting.

So you talk about advancements in technology making certain luxuries affordable today, while ignoring the fact that the more essential things that were affordable years ago are now becoming less and less affordable today?

You're talking rubbish, mate!

 

[Paul the Wolf]

So you talk about advancements in technology making certain luxuries affordable today, while ignoring the fact that the more essential things that were affordable years ago are now becoming less and less affordable today?

You're talking rubbish, mate!

Which planet do you come from?
It's pointless arguing with a know all who knows absolutely nothing, it's insulting to people who struggled just to make ends meet. People couldn't afford the essentials not the luxuries, unbelievable.

 

[vidic blood & sand]

I remember back before the referendum people here were telling us about all the terrors that would be awaiting us if we voted out, and how the country was doomed. I said that it was all rubbish.
10 Months after we voted out, it's not turned out so bad so far has it?

I know we haven't actually left the EU yet, but the markets are pretty stable, and the pound is heading to a realistic rate.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

I remember back before the referendum people here were telling us about all the terrors that would be awaiting us if we voted out, and how the country was doomed. I said that it was all rubbish.
10 Months after we voted out, it's not turned out so bad so far has it?

I know we haven't actually left the EU yet, but the markets are pretty stable, and the pound is heading to a realistic rate.

Boom

 

[vidic blood & sand]

Which planet do you come from?
It's pointless arguing with a know all who knows absolutely nothing, it's insulting to people who struggled just to make ends meet. People couldn't afford the essentials not the luxuries, unbelievable.

Newlyweds moved into council rented homes, and pensioners could afford heating bills, and were able to buy fresh meat, while today young people cannot afford to get on the property ladder, and pensioners struggle with fuel bills, and cannot afford to buy a leg of lamb for £25.

Do you actually live in the UK?

Advancements in technology make gadgets more affordable for some of us.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Newlyweds moved into council rented homes, and pensioners could afford heating bills, and were able to buy fresh meat, while today young people cannot afford to get on the property ladder, and pensioners struggle with fuel bills, and cannot afford to buy a leg of lamb for £25.

Do you actually live in the UK?

Advancements in technology make gadgets more affordable for some of us.

I did until 10 years ago and worked for a Uk company till last year.
People could not get on the property ladder then. I did in the 70s because my dad lent me the deposit. I struggled hard to pay the mortage , sometimes we didn't eat, sometimes we didn't pay the mortgage, there were no handouts and I'm from a middle class background. In my whole life I've only ever received a few quid in child benefit from the state , never been unemployed , never received any social security and paid a fortune in tax in later life as I worked my way up.

My father was a financial controller of a large company, he got his first car , first TV and central heating when I was a kid. A lot of people didn't even have that.
Washing machines, fridges were rare.

Food bill in the 70s was £10 a week, full tank of petrol a fiver, struggled to pay it.

It's all relative

 

[Chorley1974]

I remember back before the referendum people here were telling us about all the terrors that would be awaiting us if we voted out, and how the country was doomed. I said that it was all rubbish.
10 Months after we voted out, it's not turned out so bad so far has it?

I know we haven't actually left the EU yet, but the markets are pretty stable, and the pound is heading to a realistic rate.

The Doomongers on here are amazing, big mention to Paul, it's pathetic, the deal and the future haven't yet been done.