Apart from not legally having to adopt the Euro, the UK don't meet the criteria to be able to join the Euro even if they wanted to.
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
The likes of Greece didn't either. And some that did then have broken the rules since. Then again, who cares.
For sure, the only ones who care are those using this as one of the pretences for leaving.
Better leave before we do meet the criteria
Quite.
If the UK does jump off the cliff they'll probably wish they had joined the Euro.
Dealing with the easy part first. Whilst this is true what you so conveniently fail to say is that the only reason for this is because the currency of French Polynesia is permanently fixed against the Euro.
Now this I really take umbrage with. Merely because I am actually in favour of the UK remaining in the EU. Thing is I never believed that all of the lies and untruths were being told by those advocating leave. The majority of the views expressed on this board only reinforce my view that there are just as many 'remainers' quite willing to peddle half truths and downright lies.
The expectation of the EU has always been that all countries would join the Euro and that the UK and Denmarks opt outs were only ever viewed as temporary. In the case of the UK black wednesday made our politicians rightly cautious. The collapse of economies in 2008 only reinforced our view that monetary union was at best unwise and that there ought to be a slowdown on further integration. The EU actually took and still takes the opposite view. The Greek experience for example has convinced them that without further political and economic integration the same might happen in the future. Personally I think they are right and that the EU's aim for all countries to adopt the Euro, for fiscal policy to be set centrally, for there to be a European army etc is not only sensible but almost a prerequisite if Europe is to have a real voice in years to come. Unless it happens then I am sure that long term the Union has no viable future.
If you really think its pie in the sky and will not happen then I respectfully suggest that you are just as misguided and ill informed as those in favour of leaving that you evidently despise.
Sorry, I thought it was you that mentioned it. Now it's got to us wanting to join the Euro the conversation's got a bit too bizarre for me, I'll try again tomorrow. Still, at least you didn't say begging, which seems to have come back in vogue again, even without devilish.
The greater issue is that an open border on one side will be vulnerable to what essentially amounts to goods smuggling. If tariffs are to be applied or standards diverge then having no customs checks will leave both sides exposed. Something I doubt the EU are likely to agree to.
Yeah my post was assuming there being tariff free trade post UK leaving.
Joke, ho ho ha ha, remember what it used to be like
That's a decision between France and French Polynesia not the EU, the Francs Pacifique had a fixed change against the Franc and the latter doesn't exist anymore. It could have been fixed against the Dollar or the Pound Sterling but it would have been a weird one.
It might be an ideal for the EU in a general sense but it is pie in the sky in any meaningful sense. Even if we didn't leave we woudn't adopt the Euro in any meaningful time scale. The same goes for an EU army. Personally I'm for both in a general sense.
Why are you for the Euro? Aren't the UK in a better position with the Pound Sterling?
Ideally the EU would have liked the UK to join the Euro but would not and have never been forced to do so.
The other points I don't disagree with you.
I don't despise those in favour of leaving, I would if it was going to seriously damage my life, personally and selfishly it will be a small advantage.
I just think they are incredibly foolish.
Quite. Meanwhile, genius John Redwood suggests taxing UK consumers buying European goods, in order to refund ... UK consumers. Of course this financial merry go round is cost free and 100% of the proceeds goes back to those who paid the taxes in the first place.
Seems like a novel way of saying they will subsidise businesses that lose out due to tarrifs.Quite. Meanwhile, genius John Redwood suggests taxing UK consumers buying European goods, in order to refund ... UK consumers. Of course this financial merry go round is cost free and 100% of the proceeds goes back to those who paid the taxes in the first place.
Quite. Meanwhile, genius John Redwood suggests taxing UK consumers buying European goods, in order to refund ... UK consumers. Of course this financial merry go round is cost free and 100% of the proceeds goes back to those who paid the taxes in the first place.
No-one is that stupid, I keep saying that but keep being proved wrong time and again by Brexiters.
Let's tell him it would bring in £500 trillion and he can give that back to the consumers.
Why does he need new estimates if he's giving it back, whether it's 50p or £500 trillion the government won't see it anyway but they've still got to finance the collection and distribution of it.
Also under WTO rules you have to work under most favoured nation rules without a trade agreement.
So who's he trying to con, the British people or their other trade partners.
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By charging their customers more? Seems a self defeating process.
I think that he is right. If I'm not mistaken the idea is to give the tarrifs paid by EU companies to UK based companies trading with the EU, basically subsidies.
Eh?
But the UK customers are the ones who will be paying the tariffs on anything coming in. And EU businesses buying from the UK will just shift custom to other EU countries, so we'd better save those subsidies for unemployment benefits for the UK workers instead.
The subsidies part, not the scheme. I knew that I wasn't clear at all.
Yes but , see my previous post, there is no money, the UK consumers pay the tariffs and the government supposedly pays it back again and it will cost a lot to process this money that doesn't really exist.
You really think they care for UK consumers. Bet most tories mps would have rubbed one out when the £ fell.
Oh yes John Redwood - man of the people. I think we're on the same page here?
I was talking about AshfordLad being right concerning subsidies, I just botched the all thing.
Redwood doesn't mention subsidies for businesses. Just tax cuts and benefits raises for consumers. Who pay the tariffs in the first place.
Also note his use of 'could'. About as binding as 'let's fund our NHS instead.'
Also note his use of 'could'. About as binding as 'let's fund our NHS instead.'
Yes I did realise that
, but there are no subsidies, it reminds me of the joke where if you lend me a fiver I'll repay the £5 I owe you.Saying it out loud would be counter productive now wouldn't it.
Tax everything from bacon to BMWs and hand that money over to Big pharma, banks and fintech.
In a general sense I'd like the EU become more like a single country of federated states over time.
Would you like to see Australia join a federation with Indonesia and the Philippines in the same way?
So it's shoot the messenger rather than comment on the message.
So lets comment on the another thing that was in the mainstream press about what the ECB tried to do recently to Italy when several of its banks were in trouble, it instructed those banks to seize retail customer deposits to support the Banks' capital shortfall. Italy found that politically unacceptable and instead against ECB rules supported those banks via State help.
This suggests to me big problems are brewing financially in the EU that are going to flare up at some point down the line as individual countries are trapped within EU rules that are not flexible enough for their economies. A major known one is devaluation which cannot be done.
I counted a full six stories of financial doom on their front page. Why pick the one you did, why not this one (http://investmentwatchblog.com/we-a...-credit-default-cycle-in-our-nations-history/), surely a lot more relevant to brexit then some Spanish pensions!? Or this one: http://investmentwatchblog.com/bank...flash-crash-in-early-2018-seems-quite-likely/ We could also go straight nutter and choose this one: http://investmentwatchblog.com/proof-uranium-one-was-involved-in-the-oregon-standoff/
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How is Detroit ever going to rebound if it is shackled to the same dollar as Silicon Valley? How can the Bronx ever get by next to Manhattan without devaluing it's currency? Fiscal union you say? Look at reality I say, there is very little to show of a fiscal union between Michigan, Ohio and say California.
Of course there is. When a plant is shut down in Ohio, the government can provide assistance, using money collected from the taxes of wealthy Californians and New Yorkers (as well as everyone else of course), and there is no uproar about it. Within the confines of a nation state you can have a limited policy of redistribution, even in a country like the US which is aghast at anything that smells remotely like socialism. It is the norm. The same goes in the UK, if a plant shuts in Sunderland, people in London are on the hook for it but nobody bats an eyelid, it isnt news, it isnt even seen as redistribution, it is just everyone in the country paying their tax and that money then being used however it is needed. We all know which parts of the country are net contributors or net beneficiaries of state funding but it isnt seen as unfair because everyone acknowledges that the ones who pay more are richer.
The same just isnt true in the EU. Germany is like the London or the EU, and Greece is like the Sunderland, but when Greece gets into trouble the Germans dont foot the bill, they extend a loan. Until that changes the euro's problems wont go away.
The land of milk and honey just got downgraded to bread and water.
But look on the bright side, we got that £350m back!
I hardly ever see a forecast like this from the OBR, and it's predecessors, that doesn't show a miraculous improvement in the longer term. It does make me suspicious of their honesty.
Absolutely fuming. The country's infrastructure is crap but we'll spend 3bn on a idioitic cause.
£3bn won't be remotely enough to implement that automated border they're blabbing on about.
Everyone knows that. But you have to pick a reasonable sounding number to start off with, then we can all sit back and watch the cost of it inevitably escalate once we get past the point where anyone can point out this probably isnt value for money after all.
The £3bn is not just for the Irish border, it's for everything including the lorry parks , civil servants, customs officers etc throughout the UK and especially Dover. But of course the money for that was to come from the tariffs levied (paid by the British people) or was that for the NHS or is it the money John Redwood is going to give back to the people, so confusing when one portion of money does so many things.
At least Nicky Morgan finally confirmed today that there is no pot of gold for the NHS after Brexit.