Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Quite some feat to come up with a border solution that requires more borders and a backstop solution that requires more backstops, all in the space of a week.
Edit: This is the document - just had chance to read all of it.
https://assets.publishing.service.g...hnical_note_temporary_customs_arrangement.pdf
The UK government are insane.
Go back and try again, and again, and again and again.....
Edit: This is the document - just had chance to read all of it.
https://assets.publishing.service.g...hnical_note_temporary_customs_arrangement.pdf
The UK government are insane.
Go back and try again, and again, and again and again.....
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Or you get the Brexit you don't want from someone that doesn't want it either, your choice, note that some people voted for this party and are getting just what they deserve.
Well at least things have moved on a bit today, Davis has won the battle to move quickly from a customs arrangement that hasn't been decided or agreed yet to a different customs arrangement that hasn't bee decided or agreed yet. Yaay, progress.
I'm not sure if they are insane, it reads like something written by someone that has no idea about what they are doing. The point (1) and (11) are shocking when you read them one after the other.
This isn't strictly true though is it? I've been checking back as I wasn't taking notice of UK politics at the time. The European Referendum Act 2015 for a non-binding referendum was passed by 544-53 votes - somehow don't think all those votes were Tories.
Was talking about General Election
They certainly don't know what they're doing and are definitely insane. Yes 1 and 11 are shocking, 17 18 and 19 are quite hilarious too. In fact there are too many strange ones. It's shocking that a major country is being run by people like this.
I know but if that act had been stopped it wouldn't have happened.
You already replied to that yesterday saying basically the same thing. I thought Brexiters didn’t believe in second chances to express an opinion?
Just to make it clear and see if we read the same thing. (1) says that the UK will leave the EUCU and the SM, (11) says that the UK proposes to share its custom territory with the EU by joining the EUCU or create a new custom Union that includes the UK. (17), (18) and (19) say that the UK wants to be part of the SM but also want to be able to strike their own deals and diverge from EU rules.
And the best of all, (23) the UK are perfectly happy with ECJ's positions.
Yes, agreed. None of it makes sense. They are still in cake and eat it mode and expect the EU to change the rules to suit the UK.
Almost 2 years from the referendum and the best the government can come up with is this drivel. Shameful.
Sadly I think things have regressed today with the publication of this paper.
This really isn’t helping my ‘we’re definitely fecked’ feelings.
My god, apparently backstop is a term taken from baseball. Just when I thought things couldn't get any more shameful than they are.
Holy shit ! 
They wanted brexit, imagined that despite the vote it would be fudged by a government acting against their interests and imagine that that is what is happening.
After the damage has been done.
Oddly enough one would have thought that the Brexiters would be happy at the way things are going because a cliff-edge Brexit next March seems more likely by the day.
Or did they really believe they could have their cake and eat it.
Or did they really believe they could have their cake and eat it.
So 6% still think it's going well
A mighty 10% in fact.
At least the govt is dealing well with northern rail. In or out of the eu you can always rely on the tories.
If she doesn't sack him...
"Leaked"
I know. Boris thinks he's smart. Every man and his dog knows he's behind this.
I think it's became apparent over the last 2 years that none of them have a clue what they're doing.
Holy shit !
You look at this poll here and even it tells you that tory voters are essentially UKIP crop in disguise.
https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2018/0608/969041-johnson-brexit-warning/
I have to say, as an Irishman I 100% agree with Boris here. This issue could be solved by creating customs depots where truck drivera carrying goods across the border have to report to for customs checks. So easy.
Im a little upset by how easily the Irish government is being used as a machanism to make the Brexit negtiations difficult for the UK too, considering abojt 40% of our trade is with Britain. Just seems counterproductive to Irish interests but in Europes interest.
At the end of all this the Irish will have ther tax regimes and budgets dictated to by Europe, so theres literally no political win for Ireland here. Another example of the ineptitude of Irish politians.
I have to say, as an Irishman I 100% agree with Boris here. This issue could be solved by creating customs depots where truck drivera carrying goods across the border have to report to for customs checks. So easy.
Im a little upset by how easily the Irish government is being used as a machanism to make the Brexit negtiations difficult for the UK too, considering abojt 40% of our trade is with Britain. Just seems counterproductive to Irish interests but in Europes interest.
At the end of all this the Irish will have ther tax regimes and budgets dictated to by Europe, so theres literally no political win for Ireland here. Another example of the ineptitude of Irish politians.
We are going right over this cliff edge people. The UK government is never going to come up with a coherent plan for what it wants, the divisions - between the politicians and the public - are too deep. Nothing they come up with will be satisfactory, everything will be shot down as either being unworkable or suicidal by remainers, or "not what we voted for" by Brexiters. There is no solution that ticks all the boxes, and nobody is willing to make the decision that is going to piss half the country off, with all the political consequences that come with that. So rather than make a decision that will have horrible consequences one way or the other (economic one way, political the other) but will at least steer us in a particular direction, we are just going to close our eyes and go over the cliff blind and see what happens.
I think the UK are doing quite a good job making it difficult on their own, to be honest.
Having said that only about a month ago I had the exact opposite feeling, that it was all brinksmanship and that all sides were making a show of disagreement, because they had to be seen to be fighting for their particular interests, and conceding too quickly, on either side, would give the impression too much had been conceded. I thought in the end something sensible would be agreed, concessions would be made by both sides, and we would end up with something that both sides could live with. This would still be an inferior arrangement to what we have, but not devastatingly bad - it would probably be staying in the CU, so getting a win on freedom of movement but giving up free trade deals and accepting regulatory fealty.
I guess it shows how volatile sentiment can be when you have no idea what the hell is going on behind closed doors.
I still do think the above is quite possible, and probably the best of a bad set of outcomes at this point. If you had told me this is what we were voting for I would have laughed in your face - but maybe enough people really were voting about the border issue that it would actually be politically satisfactory. Either way, every other outcome is worse IMO. Including cancelling the whole process, which I think would be catastrophic for democratic legitimacy in this country.
I guess it shows how volatile sentiment can be when you have no idea what the hell is going on behind closed doors.
I still do think the above is quite possible, and probably the best of a bad set of outcomes at this point. If you had told me this is what we were voting for I would have laughed in your face - but maybe enough people really were voting about the border issue that it would actually be politically satisfactory. Either way, every other outcome is worse IMO. Including cancelling the whole process, which I think would be catastrophic for democratic legitimacy in this country.
The thing that I don't understand here is, what concessions the 27 countries are supposed to make, I purposely don't say EU because it's too convenient to forget what we are actually talking about?
Youre right, concession is the wrong word from the EU perspective. What we will end up with will be something that the EU would have agreed to from the outset. It is the UK that needs to be seen to be fighting for more than it could have meekly accepted on day 1.
Its possible it will make some small concession or other, give the UK some slightly bespoke arrangement, not exactly the same as what was available "off she shelf", to allow the UK government to save a bit of face. Though of course this would be in exchange for something else, so the EU can also save face for having conceded whatever it was. But that will just be political smoke and mirrors and reasonably inconsequential.
You are right though, the compromise will come on the UK side. I mean, by definition we have to make the most compromises, seeing as whatever we do half the country wont like it, and more likely than, if we do anything coherent at all it will be something that pleases nobody, but is nobody's worst case scenario.
This strategy works great if your counterpart knows you're employing it...
. The worrying thing about this is that Boris apparently thinks his/May's current approach is sane.The concession the UK wants (full access while not crossing May's red lines) is impossible. I can't see any other concession that would satisfy the UK's needs, the red lines will need to disappear.
So hard border where every vehicle going across the border is checked for goods then? Only at major roads or every small country road that crosses across the border? I cross into the north, and back on my way to work everyday, should I be then stopped at customs 4 times daily in your scenario?
Boris is 100% wrong, either he doesn't understand the problem or is deliberately ignoring it.
The problems are not only the border checks which would be impossible. There are many other points which have been discussed numerous times.
The EU will not be changing the laws just to suit the UK and the WTO will also not be changing their rules to suit the UK.
The Irish trade will suffer but they still have agreements with the 26 other EU members and the countries the EU have agreements with.
If the UK leave off a cliff edge they will have agreements with zero countries, zero.