Silva
Full Member
That's the plan.
That's the plan.
That's the plan.
To be fair to Corbyn if he opposes Brexit he'll only have the overwhelming majority of his MPs, his voters, his party members and the largest unions in the country behind him.
What we should do is pretend that somehow it's a difficult decision on the basis that a small minority of voters who live largely in safe Labour constituencies in the north might object and attack anyone who challenges that view.
It'll be more or less the Norway+ model that's made possible in the stage 1 and 2 agreements.What'll his approach on Brexit be when that happens, though? Considering he's basically not really got one at the moment.
It'll be more or less the Norway+ model that's made possible in the stage 1 and 2 agreements.
It'll be more or less the Norway+ model that's made possible in the stage 1 and 2 agreements.
Norway+ isn't a hard brexit you pillock. It's an open border, freedom of labour & goods exit.Hard Brexit same as the Tories ...ish
Roughly the same number of Labour voters backed Remain (65%) as Tory voters backed Leave (61%). Yet we're not in a position where the Tory party is backing remain for fear of alienating the minority of their vote. Odd that, isn't it?
More recent polling has shown 80% of Labour members want a second referendum.
It'll be more or less the Norway+ model that's made possible in the stage 1 and 2 agreements.
Yeah, but he'll have 5 years until the next election for voters to get over it.So a soft Brexit. If the estimations of the people who support his current position are correct, he'll get a heavy amount of flak for that in that he'll be alienating Labour Brexiteers by not committing to an end for freedom of movement etc.
Norway+ isn't a hard brexit you pillock. It's an open border, freedom of labour & goods exit.
It commits to no hard border in Ireland and no regulatory diverge of NI to the rest of the country. Aka, no regulatory difference between the UK/Republic of Ireland (the EU).Specifically what is it about the stage 1 and 2 agreements that you think make the Norway deal possible?
I've seen you cite this before but never explained why.
That's why there's a + thereI think you better check that old chum , Norway has a border. You didn't mention Services or Capital- indivisible
It commits to no hard border in Ireland and no regulatory diverge of NI to the rest of the country. Aka, no regulatory difference between the UK/Republic of Ireland (the EU).
Yeah, but he'll have 5 years until the next election for voters to get over it.
There's no such provisions in the agreement, that is a UK cabinet issue and will be rejected by the EU when they propose maxfac. At which point the UK will have to choose between Norway+ and no deal. And the UK can't choose no deal.It commits to no hard border on the proviso the UK govt come up with a workable and viable solution to it. Nothing to suggest anyone has that. This is what makes Corbyn's Brexit just as pie in the sky as May's. Both rely on the magical "somehow", whereby we "somehow" resolve the Northern Ireland issue and hey presto we'll have an agreement.
That's why there's a + there
That'll be a good thing for Labour. They'll soak up SNP and LD votes like the last coalition did.Unless party polling falls to the point where there's a vote of no confidence against him and his government gets ousted. Something that'll be even more likely if he doesn't have a majority and has to work alongside the Lib Dems or SNP.
Voter fear over immigration has been fostered by the DM and the like for decades, and isn't going to disappear after Brexit. If Corbyn's intention is to essentially lie to people at the moment and placate and promise to address those fears over immigration, before doing nothing at all when he's actually elected, then he'll probably piss of a lot of people.
That'll be a good thing for Labour. They'll soak up SNP and LD votes like the last coalition did.
There's no such provisions in the agreement, that is a UK cabinet issue and will be rejected by the EU when they propose maxfac. At which point the UK will have to choose between Norway+ and no deal. And the UK can't choose no deal.
By certain demographics. Others went to the Tories, the same will happen in another coalition, but with different demographics.the Lib Dems were seen as having betrayed their voters
That's the stage 2 wording, recall meaning it committed to those things in stage 1.But it doesn't commit to no hard border in Ireland at all. Phase 1 agreement simply says:
"The United Kingdom also recalls its commitment to the avoidance of a hard border, including any physical infrastructure or related checks and controls."
"The United Kingdom remains committed to protecting North-South cooperation and to its guarantee of avoiding a hard border."
Everyone wants to avoid a hard border, but there is not an agreement on how to do so. You appear to be under the impression a lack of agreement on what can solve the border issue will be the default position of no hard border, which doesn't make sense. If no agreement on the Irish border will result in their not being a hard border then what exactly is the point of discussions on the subject if the breakdown of talks would instantly resolve it?
By certain demographics. Others went to the Tories, the same will happen in another coalition, but with different demographics.
That's the stage 2 wording, recall meaning it committed to those things in stage 1.
49. The United Kingdom remains committed to protecting North-South cooperation and to its guarantee of avoiding a hard border. Any future arrangements must be compatible with these overarching requirements. The United Kingdom's intention is to achieve these objectives through the overall EU-UK relationship. Should this not be possible, the United Kingdom will propose specific solutions to address the unique circumstances of the island of Ireland. In the absence of agreed solutions, the United Kingdom will maintain full alignment with those rules of the Internal Market and the Customs Union which, now or in the future, support North-South cooperation, the allisland economy and the protection of the 1998 Agreement.But this still doesn't make sense. All phase one says on the border issue is, effectively, 'be nice if..'.
Besides it still doesn't explain why you think no deal on everything, including the Irish border issue, will result in the default position of there being no hard border in Ireland. This is illogical.
Is freedom of labour the same as freedom of movement btw? What about services?Norway+ ... It's an open border, freedom of labour & goods exit.
Freedom of movement likely wouldn't end no matter the Brexit, we're not going to shoot ourselves in the foot twice by making people get tourist visas, freedom of labour means EU nationals have the right to work here without a workers visa but has little to do with travel arrangements as we're not in Schengen. Services wouldn't be required to uphold the Good Friday agreement, which is the reason we have to go with Norway+ in the first place (you don't check services at borders), so idk what happens there, there's no indication which way that goes.Is freedom of labour the same as freedom of movement btw? What about services?
Norway isn't the customs union
Yes, the freedoms will apply. That's why the far right of the conservative party is throwing a fit and wants a no deal exit.It's in the Single Market and the 4 freedoms apply . You mean Jeremy's hoping to negotiate his own deals.
read it againBy the way the NI border extract you quoted only applies to NI.
Yes, the freedoms will apply. That's why the far right of the conservative party is throwing a fit and wants a no deal exit.
read it again
I'm starting to wish Liz Kendall won the leadership.
He's a sweetheart, but it's like sending a kitten to a dog fight.
The 2017 election proved that wrong. If it wasn't for a surprise tory surge in Scotland he'd be PM.These are your comments about Corbyn from the first page of this thread and you were right!