Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?


  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .
Buddy the world ain't a fair place. Anybody born in privilege will never willingly surrender it and anyone born outside of it will strive to get there and then fight to protect it. The same way I hold absolutely nothing against the people who migrate to better their lives, I also hold nothing against the people who want to protect the privilege they are born in. It's the way of life.

There is solid evidence that migration (at least in the UK's case) is good for the economy, but equally there's evidence that it creates pressure on the incomes of the lowest skilled people. The "lazy or unprepared" as you decided to call them, as if that's a fair description on anyone caught at the bottom. And those people have every right to request the protection from their Government because that Government is there to work for the betterment of the lives of its people. Not all the people of the world. Its mission is not world fairness.

We don't live in some sort of meritocratic utopia up in the clouds where the Angels sing and the Cherubs play. Humans neither act rationally, nor care for fairness a lot of the times. If that makes you angry, be prepared to be angry for the rest of your life.

Well, that is were you differ. You laugh at the none priviledged once, I laugh at the priviledge ones that thinks that are the big boys and then they whine when the none priviledge ones "steals their jobs" .

I have neither anything against protecting your interests, but going against the immigration the way is done, is completely wrong and it goes against the interests of the ones that whines. The immigration is used as a weapon to blame all of the problems of the economy when is the economy. The rich wants that kind of immigration and they don't have any interest in stopping it. But is the perfect target because they can't defend themselves.

If you want to tackle immigration what you do? pursue an uncontrolable source like desperate people, that you can deport but someone will come? or you should pursue the companies that hires them? companies that can't go anywhere (because they are not multinationals), you know where to find them and easy to control?

If you control the companies, they don't hire, immigrants wont come at that much numbers illegally. But no, the economy needs these people and they will never go against they own companies.

Then you say that immigration put stress in the economy, no doubt, like any big phenomena that affects the economy, puts stress in the economy, but there are pros and cons, and if you want some benefits, you need to invest and have some costs. But as you said, immigration is beneficial for any economy overall, then we can go at any particular case and some would be fecked and others been benefited big time.

The lazy or unprepared that they are caught in the bottom are fairly way better than the ones that they leave their homes because they are caught in wars or they are starving and they risk their lives, some of them 2/3 years, to cross half a continent in the worse conditions, dealing with mafias ans basically risking their life and the few money they have to try a better life. So yeah, locals can cry me a river of how unfair life is and how caught int the bottom they are. They have every right to ask for protection from the government, but they are requesting the wrong protection with immigration and basically they are requesting help to the ones that fecked them over and over and make them believe that immigration is the problem.

Last sentence is pedantic, patronizing and basically say a lot about you. And yes, I will be always angry the way things work in this world and I am more than consistent that mostly will never change. Now is up to you if you want (probably you find it great the way things work) to change it or not despite how you think things are, because if we don't fight for it, things would be even worse
 
You need either an EU approved Id or a passport to go from UK -> France... So that's not true

We've gone from one incorrect extreme to another

I repeat, you don't need a ID to cross by GROUND to any EU country. NONE.

BUt if you want to pick a FLIGHT from UK to France you need an ID, If you have to pick a FLIGHT from Spain to France you need an ID, if you want to pick a FLIGHT from Madrid to Barcelona you need an ID (same country), if pick a FLIGHT from London to Edinburgh you need an ID

What you say is true, what I am saying true too. You need an ID for Flying from UK to France (probably as well for the Eurotunnel because is for security reasons) but is for security reasons, not because you cross to another country, because inside the same country you need an ID as well. By ground you can cross any european countries without a problem except probably some key infrastructures (maybe Sweden-Denmark through the long bridge? others? but I think inside spain you needed as well to pick the high speed train (don't remember though.

Security issue, not EU borders issue
 
I repeat, you don't need a ID to cross by GROUND to any EU country. NONE.

BUt if you want to pick a FLIGHT from UK to France you need an ID, If you have to pick a FLIGHT from Spain to France you need an ID, if you want to pick a FLIGHT from Madrid to Barcelona you need an ID (same country), if pick a FLIGHT from London to Edinburgh you need an ID

What you say is true, what I am saying true too. You need an ID for Flying from UK to France (probably as well for the Eurotunnel because is for security reasons) but is for security reasons, not because you cross to another country, because inside the same country you need an ID as well. By ground you can cross any european countries without a problem except probably some key infrastructures (maybe Sweden-Denmark through the long bridge? others? but I think inside spain you needed as well to pick the high speed train (don't remember though.

Security issue, not EU borders issue
What you are saying is valid for the Schengen area, not the whole EU.
 
What you are saying is valid for the Schengen area, not the whole EU.

If it is like this, I apologize about it (though is not the point I was trying to make). But still is valid for the UK, yes, in the Schengen area (correction). ID are needed to go to France from UK, not because despite they are in Schengen, but because for security reasons when you take a flight
 
If it is like this, I apologize about it (though is not the point I was trying to make). But still is valid for the UK, yes, in the Schengen area (correction). ID are needed to go to France from UK, not because despite they are in Schengen, but because for security reasons when you take a flight

The UK aren't in Schengen.
 
The UK aren't in Schengen.

I stand seriously corrected. I really thought you did not need passport for EU/ Schengen

So you need a passport between NI and Ireland?

I need a passport if I need to go to Romania, and Bulgaria?

Geniuine questions
 
Yes

Certain countries in the European Union do not belong to the Schengen Area, and EU nationals must show their passports – or other valid national ID – when entering or exiting these countries. At the time of publication, European nationals must show their IDs when entering or exiting the United Kingdom, Ireland, Cyprus, Croatia, Bulgaria or Romania. The U.K.'s upcoming exit from the EU may further affect this, however the regulations have not been put in place yet.


Then I repeat I stand 100% correct.

In an attempt to salvage my argument, with FoM, once inside the Schengen area, the national brits can enjoy it like any other
 
I stand seriously corrected. I really thought you did not need passport for EU/ Schengen

So you need a passport between NI and Ireland?

I need a passport if I need to go to Romania, and Bulgaria?

Geniuine questions

Technically you don't need an id between France and Spain but it's highly advised because you can be checked by customs or border police, it's relatively rare but it's possible particularly near Le Perthus or Vintimiglia at the italian border. UK, Ireland, Romania, Croatia and Bulgaria aren't in Schengen, iirc British police can check people IDs in trains and they also do it in Calais, regarding Ireland they have an open border and I don't think that you need anything.
 
Technically you don't need an id between France and Spain but it's highly advised because you can be checked by customs or border police, it's relatively rare but it's possible particularly near Le Perthus or Vintimiglia at the italian border. UK, Ireland, Romania, Croatia and Bulgaria aren't in Schengen, iirc British police can check people IDs in trains and they also do it in Calais, regarding Ireland they have an open border and I don't think that you need anything.

I agree is recommended, though not necessary at all. And if the french police ask me an ID and I don't have it, I am not breaking the law
 
I don't know why the Republic of Ireland didn't join Schengen actually, as enthusiastic EU members. Must be a good reason, obviously, but it seems strange they should choose to lump in with the politically isolated UK rather than everyone else in the EU.
 
I stand seriously corrected. I really thought you did not need passport for EU/ Schengen

So you need a passport between NI and Ireland?

I need a passport if I need to go to Romania, and Bulgaria?

Geniuine questions

No, we've had a common travel area between ireland and the uk for a long time now. For all intents and purposes there is no border these days. There's towns and homes and farms that the border passes through. Theres roads that pass back and forth from one side to the other. Trying to implement a hard border should be pretty hilarious if it comes to that.
 
I have never gone to uk other than with passport, mainly cos its the only id i have. I think its mandatory to carry id in nl, not sure, anyhow i dont carry one.
 
The CTA, together with no ID checks between Cairnryan and Belfast, allow wanted criminals an escape route, or alternatively a way for people inside Schengen to access the U.K. without passing a border.
 
I repeat, you don't need a ID to cross by GROUND to any EU country. NONE.

BUt if you want to pick a FLIGHT from UK to France you need an ID, If you have to pick a FLIGHT from Spain to France you need an ID, if you want to pick a FLIGHT from Madrid to Barcelona you need an ID (same country), if pick a FLIGHT from London to Edinburgh you need an ID

What you say is true, what I am saying true too. You need an ID for Flying from UK to France (probably as well for the Eurotunnel because is for security reasons) but is for security reasons, not because you cross to another country, because inside the same country you need an ID as well. By ground you can cross any european countries without a problem except probably some key infrastructures (maybe Sweden-Denmark through the long bridge? others? but I think inside spain you needed as well to pick the high speed train (don't remember though.

Security issue, not EU borders issue

What you are saying is valid for the Schengen area, not the whole EU.

I stand seriously corrected. I really thought you did not need passport for EU/ Schengen

So you need a passport between NI and Ireland?

I need a passport if I need to go to Romania, and Bulgaria?

Geniuine questions
Glad we're differentiating between flying and driving because that is important.

As has been said though, non-schengen countries require either an EU approved ID or passport to enter. These inclide include Bulgaria and Romania and Croatia. To go from Slovakia -> Croatia, you need to show ID.

When travelling to or from a non-Schengen country you must show a valid ID or passport. Before travelling, check what documents you must have to travel outside your home country and to enter the non-Schengen country you plan to visit

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/entry-exit/eu-citizen/index_en.htm
 
No, we've had a common travel area between ireland and the uk for a long time now. For all intents and purposes there is no border these days. There's towns and homes and farms that the border passes through. Theres roads that pass back and forth from one side to the other. Trying to implement a hard border should be pretty hilarious if it comes to that.
I've heard there's near 300 points to cross the border
 
I don't know why the Republic of Ireland didn't join Schengen actually, as enthusiastic EU members. Must be a good reason, obviously, but it seems strange they should choose to lump in with the politically isolated UK rather than everyone else in the EU.

Presumably because that might be an issue with Britain, when it comes to the CTA. Just another example of the special considerations so often made for Britain within the EU.
 
I stand seriously corrected. I really thought you did not need passport for EU/ Schengen

So you need a passport between NI and Ireland?

I need a passport if I need to go to Romania, and Bulgaria?

Geniuine questions

No, we've had a common travel area between ireland and the uk for a long time now. For all intents and purposes there is no border these days. There's towns and homes and farms that the border passes through. Theres roads that pass back and forth from one side to the other. Trying to implement a hard border should be pretty hilarious if it comes to that.

I don't know why the Republic of Ireland didn't join Schengen actually, as enthusiastic EU members. Must be a good reason, obviously, but it seems strange they should choose to lump in with the politically isolated UK rather than everyone else in the EU.

The common travel area (between UK and Ireland and British islands) has existed for nearly 100 years. It predates the EU and will exist long after it.

Ireland won't join Schengen because there is little to no benefit and they'd have to leave the CTA
 
I don't know why the Republic of Ireland didn't join Schengen actually, as enthusiastic EU members. Must be a good reason, obviously, but it seems strange they should choose to lump in with the politically isolated UK rather than everyone else in the EU.
I could be wrong but isn't the main benefit of the Schengen travel via road between countries? So it wouldn't really make sense for an island to abandon the CTA, which pre-existed the Schengen by nearly 100 years, to join it. In terms of air travel, Irish airports pretty much abide to Schengen rules anyway (any EU ID accepted, only one ID check etc).
 
I don't know why the Republic of Ireland didn't join Schengen actually, as enthusiastic EU members. Must be a good reason, obviously, but it seems strange they should choose to lump in with the politically isolated UK rather than everyone else in the EU.

Well, the historically contentious land border they share with the anti-Schengen UK would be the big issue there I'd have thought.
 
I stand seriously corrected. I really thought you did not need passport for EU/ Schengen

So you need a passport between NI and Ireland?

I need a passport if I need to go to Romania, and Bulgaria?

Geniuine questions
Ireland aren't in Schengen. Ireland and the UK have their own free movement that predates Schengen.

I know that I have been to Spain and Portugal this summer and have had to go through customs and show my passport when landing at every airport including back at Birmingham.
 
I don't know why the Republic of Ireland didn't join Schengen actually, as enthusiastic EU members. Must be a good reason, obviously, but it seems strange they should choose to lump in with the politically isolated UK rather than everyone else in the EU.
They take the Good Friday Agreement seriously. With the UK choosing to remain outside Schengen they had to do the same to continue the previsions made in the GFA.
 
I stand seriously corrected. I really thought you did not need passport for EU/ Schengen

So you need a passport between NI and Ireland?

I need a passport if I need to go to Romania, and Bulgaria?

Geniuine questions
Flying yes

Driving no. Though the cops have been known to do the odd spot check

There are no border checkpoints or anything to really indicate that you’ve driven over the border
 
:lol:

Thought you might not be happy with that poll.
I am weak. :lol:
Under what circumstances do we consider a deal, a bad deal?
People keep saying no deal is better than a bad deal but what do hell is a bad deal?
I'm just sick of everything right now.
 


Worth remembering that a lot believed May when she said she was the strong and stable option in the campaign. I have hope that they'll believe her when she claims her deal is a good deal, and that a good deal is better than no deal.
 
I think people assume if no deal is made we stop paying EU contributions and everything else continues as normal. No thought to the actual consequences.
 
Also somehow if no deal happens the EU will be desperate to deal because of a drop in trade. Somehow we would have the upper hand despite having limited food, gridlocked ports, grounded planes and no medicine, paying tarrifs on everything and massively devaluing our currency. They must have been all the cards David Davis was talking about.
 
Just watching the news with my proudly Leave voting Mother-in-Law. "It's all Cameron's fault! He didn't have a plan!"

She didn't take it well when I pointed out despite the fact that there was no plan, she voted for it, and the country would probably go down the toilet as a result.
 
At least we now know what the common market is going to be renamed - the common rule book. Not what I would have chosen but there you go.
 
I think people assume if no deal is made we stop paying EU contributions and everything else continues as normal. No thought to the actual consequences.

I fully agree - I think that they see “no deal” as basically status quo and are even less willing to listen to warnings after “Project Fear” failed to materialise (because we haven’t left yet but logic is not their strong point).
 
Public opinion is influenced by the level of the debate and you have one party tearing itself apart competing over who can deliver the most damaging Brexit and meanwhile Labour think it's fine to do a UKIP and shit on immigrants and be a bit racist because "...look at the Lib Dems". It's all a bit fecking horrible.