Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?


  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .
Well yeah, there happy to take the hit to free themselves from the EU, influence in geopolitics is an abstract concept to the man on the street. I bet most of the country know nothing about the G7, for example.
It's only abstract until it manifests itself in the food on your supermarket shelves and the conditions of you're local community. They won't be able to blame the E.U for concessions they'll need to make to trade freely with the other large economies of this world, who's influence needs to be matched to meet them on a level playing field.
At a political level Brexiteer's want to be completely free from all lawmaking influence that the EU over us, specifically pertaining to FoM and things like employment law. They want to turn us into a low tax and low regulation economy. I think the potential deterioration of working conditions because of this would be a much bigger concern than any loss of standing among the global elite powers.
While I respect that there' a large number of brexiteers that would like a low tax low regulation economy one can hardly say it's the definitive majority of them. Whenever the topic of employment law comes up they seem quick to assure that UK law will match / exceed E.U protections, often enough they claim that it was the Brits who brought about the E.U law in the first place. (I'll just accept that all brexiteers, and thereby the majority of Brits, want an end to FOM, the amount of brexiteers who don't want that seems tiny).

Given that all brexiteers are only 51 % of the voting public they don't make up anything like the majority needed to throw out everyone else's protections.

And being a low tax country only really works in a larger network. There's no point for a company to have it's headquarters in a low tax country that can't trade with anyone.
 
It's only abstract until manifests itself in the food on your supermarket shelves and the conditions of you're local community. They won't be able to blame the E.U for concessions they'll need to make to trade freely with the other large economies of this world, who's influence needs to be matched to meet them on a level playing field.

While I respect that there' a large number of brexiteers that would like a low tax low regulation economy one can hardly say it's the definitive majority of them. Whenever the topic of employment law comes up they seem quick to assure that UK law will match / exceed E.U protections, often enough they claim that it was the Brits who brought about the E.U law in the first place. (I'll just accept that all brexiteers, and thereby the majority of Brits, want an end to FOM, the amount of brexiteers who don't want that seems tiny).

Given that all brexiteers are only 51 % of the voting public they don't make up anything like the majority needed to throw out everyone else's protections.

And being a low tax country only really works in a larger network. There's no point for a company to have it's headquarters in a low tax country that can't trade with anyone.

That’s why I feel that privately Corbyn is dreaming of the Tories leading us through a Hard Brexit so they destroy their credibility as a ruling party and he can step in and found his modern socialist state free from the tentacles of the EU. He probably never dreamt that this could actually ever happen.
 
It's only abstract until it manifests itself in the food on your supermarket shelves and the conditions of you're local community. They won't be able to blame the E.U for concessions they'll need to make to trade freely with the other large economies of this world, who's influence needs to be matched to meet them on a level playing field.

While I respect that there' a large number of brexiteers that would like a low tax low regulation economy one can hardly say it's the definitive majority of them. Whenever the topic of employment law comes up they seem quick to assure that UK law will match / exceed E.U protections, often enough they claim that it was the Brits who brought about the E.U law in the first place. (I'll just accept that all brexiteers, and thereby the majority of Brits, want an end to FOM, the amount of brexiteers who don't want that seems tiny).

Given that all brexiteers are only 51 % of the voting public they don't make up anything like the majority needed to throw out everyone else's protections.

And being a low tax country only really works in a larger network. There's no point for a company to have it's headquarters in a low tax country that can't trade with anyone.
51%.... Not at all

More people didn't vote than voted leave

It breaks down something like
34% didn't vote
33% brexit
32% remain

(Cba to look it up)

Not accounting for people changing opinion since... Demographic changes and exactly what the people who did vote brexit actually meant by that.... plus of course those that are not registered or not eligible to vote

https://ukipnfkn.files.wordpress.com/2016/10/screenshot-2016-10-29-08-45-50.png?w=459&h=495&crop=1

But will of the people etc
 
51%.... Not at all

More people didn't vote than voted leave

It breaks down something like
34% didn't vote
33% brexit
32% remain

(Cba to look it up)

Not accounting for people changing opinion since... Demographic changes and exactly what the people who did vote brexit actually meant by that.... plus of course those that are not registered or not eligible to vote

https://ukipnfkn.files.wordpress.com/2016/10/screenshot-2016-10-29-08-45-50.png?w=459&h=495&crop=1

But will of the people etc

He said "only 51 % of the voting public".

Those that don't vote don't count in a democracy.
 
There is only logical option now. Brits, welcome back to the EU!

You never actually left, but still.
 
So the strategy is to pass something the EU say is impossible in the hope they'll climb down due to nothing else being able to pass?
 
Well, even the Sun gets it that the plan is flawed.
 
A point I've not heard before at any rate on radio 4, Leavers frequently claim that WTO rules are absolutely fine, whilst simultaneously claiming an independent UK could make better trade deals than they can now. If WTO rules are so fine why should we need new deals so badly? One or the other statement must be wrong.
 
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A point I've not heard before at any rate on radio 4, Remainers frequently claim that WTO rules are absolutely fine, whilst simultaneously claiming an independent UK could make better trade deals than they can now. If WTO rules are so fine why should we need new deals so badly? One or the other statement must be wrong.

You mean Leavers, give you a clue, no other country trades on WTO rules alone. I haven't heard one single Brexiter who seems to have the vaguest knowledge of international trade.
 
A point I've not heard before at any rate on radio 4, Remainers frequently claim that WTO rules are absolutely fine, whilst simultaneously claiming an independent UK could make better trade deals than they can now. If WTO rules are so fine why should we need new deals so badly? One or the other statement must be wrong.
See this example of that particular contradiction being highlighted (quite entertainingly)
 
Head in hands. Don't click but you get the gist.

To be honest it makes some sense
If the EU do any negotiation it's only going to be on the basis that agreeing something guarantees it passes In the commons so if she could go with a working majority for an amendment to the backstop it might (no guarantee) open up further negotiations

The problem is I am not sure there is a majority for it even with the erg and dup as she had something like 20 remain conservatives vote against her proposal last time as well and I can't see how this gets them on board... Far more likley they vote against this but for the amendment blocking no deal

If that does happen (and I think it will) then there is no way the EU negotiates the backstop if there is no clear majority for the commons even if they do
 
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He's one to talk :lol:

A lot of the EU leaders with their 'holier than thou' stance make me sick.
They are hiding behind Brexit which they are using to mask all their domestic problems.

Macron is a typical media leader. Looks good but fxxk all substance.
 
A lot of the EU leaders with their 'holier than thou' stance make me sick.
They are hiding behind Brexit which they are using to mask all their domestic problems.

Macron is a typical media leader. Looks good but fxxk all substance.

A little bit like you are trying to blame the EU for your domestic problems?

It's your problem, you caused it, deal with it. Why should the EU bend over?
 
To be honest it makes some sense
If the EU do any negotiation it's only going to be on the basis that agreeing something guarantees it passes In the commons so if she could go with a working majority for an amendment to the backstop it might (no guarantee) open up further negotiations

The problem is I am not sure there is a majority for it even with the erg and dup as she had something like 20 remain conservatives vote against her proposal last time as well and I can't see how this gets them on board... Far more likley they vote against this but for the amendment blocking no deal

If that does happen (and I think it will) then there is no way the EU negotiates the backstop if there is no clear majority for the commons even if they do


It makes no sense at all, the backstop will not be removed or modified.
And no deal cannot be blocked unless there is a deal, which is this one.

By now EU can't wait for the day the UK go away .
 
A lot of the EU leaders with their 'holier than thou' stance make me sick.
They are hiding behind Brexit which they are using to mask all their domestic problems.

Macron is a typical media leader. Looks good but fxxk all substance.

That's interesting because the problem is with his image not the substance.
 
You took the words out of my mouth.

And I should add that he isn't liked by French media, it wasn't the case when he was a minister and it's not the case today. French media are mainly divided between LR supporters and PS supporters while Macron is considered like the outsider.
 
It makes no sense at all, the backstop will not be removed or modified.
And no deal cannot be blocked unless there is a deal, which is this one.

By now EU can't wait for the day the UK go away .


Yes that's probably correct, the genie is out of the bottle and even if the UK Parliament was after all now to vote to remain it could present numerous problems for the EU, going forward, even if a new 'peoples' vote in the UK changed the outcome and appeared to give legitimacy to the vote taken in Parliament. The UK would still be a reluctant member, not joining the euro zone, still demanding opt outs; perhaps even more so around FOM, or under a Corbyn government wanting to give state aid to British industry, etc. To keep the piece in the UK, (i.e. with upset leavers) Parliament would be demanding even further rebates on areas of expenditure in EU budget i.e. that moved the EU towards a United States of Europe, the establishment of a free standing EU Army, etc., and perhaps worst of all, the great risk of the UK returning a certain Mr Farage to the ranks of the MEP's.

Indeed, viewed in this context, in many ways it would be madness for the EU to extend Art 50.[/QUOTE]
 
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That's interesting because the problem is with his image not the substance.

Well if he has substance as you say then why did his policies give rise to the recent protests with Iron Man Macron back down so quickly.
 
Well if he has substance as you say then why did his policies give rise to the recent protests with Iron Man Macron back down so quickly.

His policies have very little to do with it, the Gilets Jaune can't even explain what they want and they only represent a minority.
 
His policies have very little to do with it, the Gilets Jaune can't even explain what they want and they only represent a minority.

So. Nothing to do with fuel prices then.
Many thousands of people turn out for at least 9 weeks for no reason....
 
So. Nothing to do with fuel prices then.
Many thousands of people turn out for at least 9 weeks for no reason....

I mean this really kindly, but from the outside of this exchange it appears that you don't really know much about this debate and are talking to two posters who do.

Why be confrontational about it when you could treat it as a discussion and find out why they have formed different conclusions to you? Just because it's the internet doesn't mean all discourse has to be an argument.
 
So. Nothing to do with fuel prices then.
Many thousands of people turn out for at least 9 weeks for no reason....

No, since that policy doesn't come from him, it's in place since 2014. At best you could blame him from not getting rid of it but no one wanted to do that or asked for it.
 
I mean this really kindly, but from the outside of this exchange it appears that you don't really know much about this debate and are talking to two posters who do.

Why be confrontational about it when you could treat it as a discussion and find out why they have formed different conclusions to you? Just because it's the internet doesn't mean all discourse has to be an argument.

Firstly I appreciate your conciliatory response.
It was not my intention to be confrontational. I normally try to understand an issue before choosing to comment and this I have done.

I have read a summary of the reasons behind the recent French protests and without listing them I focused on the primary reason.

If I have misunderstood the situation then I bow to your knowledge.
 
So. Nothing to do with fuel prices then.
Many thousands of people turn out for at least 9 weeks for no reason....

It started because of the fuel prices but within a week or two the price of fuel went down a lot so they had to find another excuse. Prices are still lower now than they were in 2012.

Bottom line is Macron is trying to reform the french system which is resistant to change. The protestors are being urged on by the extremists and opponents of Macron.

Tax being deducted at source which was introduced during the 1940s in the UK and was introduced in France in January 2019 and I've seen the Gilets Jaunes are awaiting their pay packets next week to see if they've been ripped off.
I believe there are 47 different retirement schemes...

There's plenty of substance but trying to get the reforms through is another matter.
 
A lot of the EU leaders with their 'holier than thou' stance make me sick.
They are hiding behind Brexit which they are using to mask all their domestic problems.

Macron is a typical media leader. Looks good but fxxk all substance.

Who, when, and where?
 
Firstly I appreciate your conciliatory response.
It was not my intention to be confrontational. I normally try to understand an issue before choosing to comment and this I have done.

I have read a summary of the reasons behind the recent French protests and without listing them I focused on the primary reason.

If I have misunderstood the situation then I bow to your knowledge.

You probably didn't misunderstood. Lots of reporters in France and abroad reports half of the information, the fuel malarkey is an example. In France for years diesel had lower taxes than petrol in 2014 the government and the Greens decided to promote green energy and created the "Carbon tax", one of the plan was to put petrol and diesel taxation at the same level by 2020-2021. That policy was kept and confirmed by Hulot the new french Ecology minister in 2017, during all that time no one really complained about it until last December.

Also Brexit is barely in the news around here and it's not used by politicians at the exception of Le Pen/Phillipot who for some reason stopped.
 
A lot of the EU leaders with their 'holier than thou' stance make me sick.
They are hiding behind Brexit which they are using to mask all their domestic problems.

Macron is a typical media leader. Looks good but fxxk all substance.
Who, when, and where?
David Cameron was a good example so was his mate George Osborne.

Oh I thought you meant heads of state of other countries, but you meant leaders in the UK who are pro EU?

Because given the clusterfeck that is brexit I think the other 27 have been remarkably restrained up to now.
 
Oh I thought you meant heads of state of other countries, but you meant leaders in the UK who are pro EU?

Because given the clusterfeck that is brexit I think the other 27 have been remarkably restrained up to now.
Restrained in what context?
 
A lot of the EU leaders with their 'holier than thou' stance make me sick.
They are hiding behind Brexit which they are using to mask all their domestic problems.

Macron is a typical media leader. Looks good but fxxk all substance.

Eugh