A key factor, not the only factor
I agree that the Brexit result was influenced by 'side' issues unrelated to structural issues with the construct of the EU
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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A key factor, not the only factor
I agree that the Brexit result was influenced by 'side' issues unrelated to structural issues with the construct of the EU
It's frightening to see people pop up in here and parrot what the likes of Fox and Davis are saying. Shows you how gullible people really are and why we're in this position in the first place.
We've set our red lines which dictate the type of exit we can have, if we want a different exit we just need different red lines. It's like going to a dealership saying you won't spend more than 10k and shouting at the dealer because he won't give you a McLaren P1, "come on mate anything's possible" ffs
We've set our red lines which dictate the type of exit we can have, if we want a different exit we just need different red lines. It's like going to a dealership saying you won't spend more than 10k and shouting at the dealer because he won't give you a McLaren P1, "come on mate anything's possible" ffs
The Northern Ireland and Irish border specifically
You seen to be going down a rabitt hole. I can't explain any further, so I bit going to join you
So how do you think the UK including NI can leave the EU and the CU/SM without breaking the Good Friday Agreement while also adhering to WTO regulations?
After all this is what the backstop designed around the UK governments redlines is primarily for.
If don't understand the basic principles of sovereignty and liberty, we may as well be conversing in an alien language.
Anything's possible with the right attitude, you just need to be creative and compromise.
Just once I'd like someone to come on here and be able to give a reasoned discussion and actually offer solutions to the issues at hand, but they never can. They always just talk about liberty and sovereignty and the big bad EU and avoid answering questions around how to actually solve these issues. It's quite tragic, really.
I'd like you to explain how sovereignty and liberty will solve the border issue and trade issue.
Please educate me.
Do you even know what Cameron have asked the EU?
Hasn't Trump already told May that the price of a trade deal with the US will be the lowering of our food regulations? Brexiteers wanted bendy bananas but will end up with chlorine washed, anti-biotic laden sub-quality meat.
Read some books and come back with some more rounded opinions
I'm going to follow my own advice by looking up the implications of Irish border agreements in relation to WTO rules to understand the constraints better
Divertion tacticts from Brexiters when asked to back up their claims, classic.The backstop as it now stands is a hostage to fortune that no UK government can accept and it is why ultimately the binary choice will return, i.e. Leave with no deal, or cancel Brexit altogether.
The fact that May apparently accepted it, doesn't bode well for her or her Government in the future, whatever the outcome from Brexit. It is equivalent to the 'peace in our time' piece of paper a former British Prime minister waved as he got off the plane from Munich in the 1930's
The fact that May apparently accepted it, doesn't bode well for her or her Government in the future, whatever the outcome from Brexit. It is equivalent to the 'peace in our time' piece of paper a former British Prime minister waved as he got off the plane from Munich in the 1930's
Bit of both it seems;
https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-blamed-for-nissan-manufacturing-u-turn/
Also it's now clear the government did bribe them to stay;
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...o-nissan-reveals-brexit-promise-to-carmarkers
If it's all to do with Diesel emissions - why offer them a bribe to stay post Brexit?
This seems to be an alien concept to many Brexiteers. To them, it's perfectly natural that the UK protects its own interests but the EU is selfish and aloof and arrogant for doing so.
Fairly certain there haven't been any meaningful discussions of any kind.
That is something I think that has been assumed.
Government aren't really even interested in any kind of US deal from what I can see.
I can't offer any further opinions if you don't answer my fecking questions.
Your realize that you don't lose your sovereignty in a bilateral agreement? The UK never lost any sovereignty as members of the EU since they were part of the decision making process.
Go read books on sovereignty @Bola
How exactly are continental European politics changing (seeing as the overwhelming majority of countries in it still have pro eu politicians and publics) and what exactly the rapid growth of other economies has to do with its demise?
Also not sure how you can call the EU arrogant considering how we've approached the negotiations.
And I am pretty sure that I asked you how the EU had been helpful in the leaving process.
You ought not ask a question until you have answered one.
I can see what you are getting so angry, but don't let fear rule your life
What does that even mean? How is the EU not sensible around matters of sovereignty?
Also, what further concessions should the UK have got? You got the rebate, you opted out of Schengen, of the Eurozone, of the Charter of Fundamental Human Rights, of the Area of freedom, security, and justice. The only other member with so many fecking opt-outs is Denmark. You were even guaranteed exemption from the stated goal of deepening integration!
Seriously, posts like this make it feel like Brexiteers believe the EU should forget about its own interests entirely, shit on all its member states and just bend over backwards to make sure the UK gets everything it wants. Even though the UK cannot actually articulate what it wants.
They have offered a deal better than any other country has that also helps the UK satisfy an already existing international treaty.
Helpful in which way, the EU can't take decisions for the UK? The EU offered an alternative that works, is in line with all international rules and that also match with the fact that NI voted to remain in the EU, that answer was that NI stays in the EUCU.
You mean the UK have to take the consequences of leaving which they are refusing to do.
How you manage to blame the EU for this is weird.
It's the same with May expecting the same benefits of the EU without any of the responsibilities.
There is no compromise on this issue because there is no means of compromise.
The Uk should stop acting like a spoilt child, grow up and accept its responsibilities
I'll just jump on a boat to British waters where practically anyone can help themselves to the fish. I'm sure we can move them on if we don't like it
Allowing a UK-wide customs union without the four freedoms is an INCREDIBLE concession from the EU. You have to try and look at it from the EU perspective, as opposed to the British one all the time.
The EU negotiated alongside the British government's red lines. They accepted not having a customs border in the Irish sea. They accepted the idea of a UK wide customs union. I genuinely have no idea what more they could have done, other than simply say "do whatever you want, we'll agree to it".
I think its down to how the UK's relationship with the EU in the past 40 years. The Brexiteers had got used to the EU conceding on everything. In fact Thatcher's no no no speech is a cornerstone of British political truimph over the EU. What Brexiteers can't understand is that the EU did that not because it was frightened by the UK but simply to safeguard the single market from being ripped apart. Once the UK is out, its leverage is gone and the UK is no different to a mini US or China. If the latter can't bully the EU then surely the UK won't.
I mean aside from the hundreds of hours all other heads of states have wasted discussing how to tell the British PM that Britain cannot be turned into a fairyland in which economic, social, physical, legal and moral limits don't exist simply by leaving a bloc...
The EU has been a lot more helpful then people like me welcome. At this point BOBO JRM and the rest of them should be left to their own devices until the general population has finally decided to take its vengeance out on them.
Yeah. Honestly, at the start of it all I was hoping that eventually the UK would come to its senses and cancel it all.
Now? I'm starting to feel that for the EU, that would be the worst case scenario. Not having to deal with the British exceptionalism anymore might actually be useful. Just a big shame about the economic pain of it.
Gosh, I sound like a Leaver now.
Yup. Been reading this thread for what? 2 years now? Not once has one of them come in with compelling arguements.... Unless I've missed them? But then I'm guessing they'd still be here, posting...
Yes and why not?
You get the feeling that the EU wants rid of the UK now, but is worried May might cancel Brexit altogether and the EU will then have the same old grumpy UK back, with Farage and his gang returning twice as many if the MEP election predictions are true. Britain back with all its requests for opt-outs and rebates back on the agenda, offering no help with the euro-zone problems as the UK retains sterling and worst of all fights all the way against establishing a Euro Army and vehemently opposes closer integration and of course still banging on about freedom of movement issues... why in heavens name would the EU want to hold on to us?
Well, yeah. That's pretty much exactly where I'm at, as an EU citizen in favour of integration.
feck off you patronising git.
To be so patronising while also providing nothing of substance whatsoever takes some doing.
David Trimble is getting involved now with a legal challenge again at the backstop, saying it threatens the GFA
That's three times, keep repeating it won't make it any more true.
All possible alternatives were suggested by the EU which were rejected by May and it was her that wanted the backstop because she wouldn't agree with the alternatives.
Not back to the Uk's obsession with WW2.