Can withdraw but an extension would need agreement with EU member states I think
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
One month left until Brexit. (As it currently stands)
Yeah thats right but withdrawing art50 and cancelling Brexit doesn't need agreement as i understand it.
Yeah sorry, I was trying to say, but badly that only an extension requires agreement
Don't get me wrong, I am pleased and genuinely welcome the change in his outlook. However I feel it's a little bit late and will do nothing for him in the General Election he would prefer to have instead.
It's not too hard to imagine most Brexiters would want both EU and non-EU immigration to be reduced, but they've only ever been given a vote directly affecting one of those categories. As for Joe Bloggs on the street, any statistic like the above that show increased immigration from anywhere would only strengthen the likelihood of them voting Leave in a second referendum I'm afraid, as that would be the only option available to them if immigration were their chief concern, however irrelevant to much of that immigration the vote might be.
This was what the Brexiters wanted when they voted against immigrants from the EU, wasn't it?
I agree with you - but if you remember at the beginning it wasn't that they didn't object to immigrants, supposedly, just that it should be spread more around the citizens of nations throughout the world and no favouritism to EU citizens, so theoretically they got what they wanted.
Yes, there was the odd politician did say that, as they all by nature cast around for arguments to validate their 'side', as do zealots of both Leave and Remain.
It wasn't the view of the average voter though, so it's a point that will go over their heads I'm afraid, most of them just wanted less immigration, end of.
I know folk who wanted fewer immigrants from India and Pakistan, so they voted Leave. You know, India and Pakistan, those European countries.Yes, there was the odd politician did say that, as they all by nature cast around for arguments to validate their 'side', as do zealots of both Leave and Remain.
It wasn't the view of the average voter though, so it's a point that will go over their heads I'm afraid, most of them just wanted less immigration, end of.
The stats seem to indicate that we've 'metaphorically' traded Poles for Pakistanis.
What will the bigots campaign for now?
What could he have done ? I hear this all the time about well Corbyn should of done more etc but like what ?
After the referendum result everyone in the party part from the far left and the membership tried to get rid of Corbyn. So a whole year was wasted trying to regain the party and its structures and still even with the far left of labour controlling most of the party, yesterdayMPs from the centre left and right were literally lying on tv about the party. There is no winning over these people for Corbyn and in all honestly there shouldn't be, these MP's are only doing what is best for their type of politics. The argument sadly hasn't change since 2015, who control the party members or MPs. Until one side leaves, Labour will be a party of contradictions.
Has anyone else made a convincing argument about another second referendum that has somehow won over the country ? The Peoples Vote has achieved nothing, The TIG showed yesterday with their vote they are interested in one thing and one thing only stopping a potential labour government, The Lib Dems are still being the Lib Dems. Its turns out I was wrong earlier in thinking Reman was miles a head in the polls but the latest one has Remain 4 points a head.
And finally there simply isn't the number in parliament to get a second referendum. The Tories need to be seen and be the party of hard brexit to keep their voter base glued together, there are too Labour MP's in leave parts of the country for them to vote for another referendum.
Still have said all of this I agree with you that labour supporting another referendum now is useless but Corbyn had to follow the party conference as it would have rightly pissed a lot of labour voters off.
That 10 point leads turns out sadly to be now about 4People will come round
https://britainelects.com/polling/europe/
Indeed, but as I said earlier, there has never been a referendum on non-EU immigration, so the average anti-immigration voter has voted Leave as it's all that's been open to them. It's illogical of course, but votes are determined as much by emotion as logic I'm afraid. If I'm reading Wolfie's thoughts right, a Leave vote might actually increase the likelihood of bringing in Asian and African nurses (for example) at the expense of bringing in European ones, probably not at all what the folk you know wanted!
Well one of the Pro-Leave arguments was that they were less racist because the UK would bring in more people from non-EU countries whilst EU migrants would be more likely to be white, so they can't claim to be completely unknown to the idea.
It is also one of the reasons why some minorities voted Leave as well.
As said earlier, some politicians did say that, but I don't believe the average Leave voter thought that way for a minute. Average voter isn't as interested in point-scoring as the politically active, they simply wanted less immigration and voted for something they thought, rightly or wrongly, would achieve that.
Yes it is one of the reasons, as you say. I wouldn't paint all members of minorities with the same brush though.
Yes, but I think that was only up to the original deadline of 29th March this year? If the EU agree to Art50 being extended, even by a small amount, then all 27 countries have to agree, both to the extra period and to any proposals defined thereafter (even a withdrawal) which may follow.
I am not absolutely sure if this is correct, but the media reporting on the ECJ ruling seem to imply this, i.e. that arbitrary withdrawal is only valid up to the 29th March. So if May is to pull the plug on Brexit on her own, it will have to be before the 29th March.
I'm not convinced Remain would win in another referendum but I also don't see how the original referendum can stand when there are clear irregularities and criminal prosecutions with regards to the Leave campaign, further compounded by the Leave campaign essentially selling lies. If it were a clean win, fair enough. I think another referendum needs to be held with ranked voting, allowing for a choice between no deal (as disastrous as that sounds), remain and May's deal. That seems to be the most logical way forward for me.
Point taken.
Thanks for the link, pretty consistent message from those polls...
Agree with you here.
Wasn't Remain around 10 -16 before the last referendum started. My worry is at best 10 point lead can be lost pretty quickly especially because the rights argument this type is even easier than last - The "liberal elite" are trying to stop democracy.
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This was what the Brexiters wanted when they voted against immigrants from the EU, wasn't it?
Perfect example of some peoples idiocy isn't it.
The leave campaign sold some gullible souls the idea that immigration was all the fault of the UK being in the EU - how can we stop them when we have free movement of people...so to reduce immigration we have to leave the EU don't we....
Meanwhile the remain campaign tried to convince people that immigration was positive for the economy.
But, as a result of the government's austerity policy, public services have been cut back to unsustainable levels to balance the books (another failed policy) the cause was incorrectly blamed on immigration. AKA the EU was the problem.
Now the truth is becoming evident that myth is exposed. Wondering who will be blamed now.
No it's just to the extension, the date is arbitrary. A country can't be forced to leave and have the right to withdraw that was the ruling.
Interested in sources that say otherwise
Nail on the head.
Some leavers of an ignorant disposition and limited intellect really did fail to understand that freedom of movement was just EU citizens and wouldn't reduce the type of immigration they actually hate.
I imagine they thought we were being held back from controlling our borders somehow.
I am not 100% confident Remain would win but I don’t think you’d see a big divergence from the polls second time round. Positions are now fairly entrenched, more Remainers would make the effort to vote after the shock of 2016 and Cummings can’t perform the same trick twice by producing 2m voters who are off the radar.
Minister resigns over Brexit delay vote
Drip drip drip.
Drip drip drip.
Could someone please confirm is this is correct.
They voted last night for some motion where
1. If Mays deal is thrown out then there will be another vote regarding No Deal
2. If no deal is thrown out then they want a 3rd vote regarding asking for an extension
If this is true then in which Film have I landed the mind boggles, the EU should simply say on 29th of March your out no more discussions and the UK will have to deal with the fallout be it good or bad.
They voted last night for some motion where
1. If Mays deal is thrown out then there will be another vote regarding No Deal
2. If no deal is thrown out then they want a 3rd vote regarding asking for an extension
If this is true then in which Film have I landed the mind boggles, the EU should simply say on 29th of March your out no more discussions and the UK will have to deal with the fallout be it good or bad.
Now the latest immigration figures have been published, we are over 600,000 miles away from the governments target and growing.
I am of the strong belief that the Leave campaign told large numbers of people what they wanted to hear while the Remain campaign told them exactly the opposite and that had a significant effect on the outcome.
The problem is a lot of Remainers had been talking tough on immigration for years with no plans to actually address said issues. Cameron wanted to cut it down by hundreds of thousands each year but didn't do so. Even before him the Blair/Brown governments often talked tough on immigration, even though - again - they had no plans to properly reduce immigration. In the end demonising migrants was normalised, and the same people who held anti-immigrant sentiments grew pissed due to the fact no one was actually doing anything to address something that was out of control according to those very same politicians who had stirred up anti-migrant sentiment in the first place.
Spot on. I also believe that some of the government 'used' the high immigration figures to try to mask the adverse effects of their austerity policy especially on public services.
They did this with the EU in general. Spent years using it as a scapegoat...before then being baffled as to why some people then thought the EU was kinda shit. Incompetent morons.
Absolutely agree with this. It's one of those classic political hoodwinks. Using people's discontent with their lot, largely down to years of Austerity, and directing it at Jonny Foreigner and the EU.
Incompetent morons is a perfect description.
I am a very proud English man who loves this country.
I have always been immensely proud to say that I am English. But I am appalled and disgusted at the disgraceful way that our elected politicians have made us a complete laughing stock. Something 99% of the population don't deserve.
Correct.
Despite all this, I am optimistic that the millions of intelligent and hard working Brits will make Brexit work whatever the outcome.
If Ole can turn Manchester United round I am hopeful we can do the same for our country.
The EU will definitely say no because they've already set out the terms for an extension either a general election, second referendum on Brexit or changing of terms from the British government to the Labour brexit proposal. What's likely to happen is the EU says no because May won't remove her red lines then parliament will either take control of Brexit and Hilary Benn takes control of the negotiation and basically delivers the Labour version or parliament votes for a second referendum.
Christopher No Hope with another gem!
Don't bet on May not ballsing up the extension if she is instructed to get one by parliament!
The Labour version? You're having a laugh.
And will parliament actually agree a referendum or even the wording.
the tory remainers don't want a second referendum which could tear the party and lose them a lot of base support
If by some bizarre cosmic joke anyone was stupid enough to try Christoper Hope's idiotic suggestion don't we still owe all or most of the 39 billion?
His tweet reminds me of this
His tweet reminds me of this