From the diplomatic editor of Newsnight via a former Australian trade negotiator
Just as expected.
Just as expected.
Last edited:
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
- Thread starter Silva
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
What an appalling state of affairs.
And to think it’s the remain MPs that fear threat to their livelihoods in the street
The full thread from Mark Urban is a good summary of the current situation:
Extension followed by confidence motion followed by ge... Followed by pm farrage
Can't see Farage being PM but a cabinet role in a Tory/Brexit Party coalition, Tories would have the majority of the seats with Brexit and possibly DUP giving them a majority in Parliament, Boris or whoever Tories elect as their next leader will be PM. I don't how likely that all is though.
Exactly it seems such nonsense, but why would otherwise respected journalists give it any credibility whatsoever?
I suspect there will be even more 'hares set running' as the EU conference approaches, about how Boris might evade, or circumvent, or fall on his sword over the Benn Act, and not only do these stories grab the attention in the UK headlines, but they have the no doubt got certain member states governments looking across the table at each other and wondering if they are still on board. The art of distraction is one of Boris's most accomplished skills, because, a bit like Trump, even when you know he's evading the truth and pointing somewhere else, you can't help but steal a glance in that direction, and sometimes in 'close quarter combat' such as that which will occur very soon, such minor distractions at just the right moment can be telling and quickly swing the emphasis!
This is getting better than Game of Thrones!
The Tories have been trying divide and conquer since day one and so far it’s got them precisely nowhere. We’ll see though.
I think this is why they want Boris to secure the extension first
They know Corbyn couldn't command a majority of MP's
Will be interesting if Boris was just to resign instead of writing the letter... Might be his best way of securing no deal as without labour backing a ken Clarke type candidate it's going to be impossible to get somebody to command a majority
Ignoring the fact they have to get conservatives / now independent ex conservatives on side as well
Pot, meet Kettle.
The only way to get a majority of opposition MP's is a unity candidate who can bring the ex conservatives through the lobbies
It has to be somebody like clarke...or possibly Beckett / bercow
It's 1000% not jezbollah
But they don't have the numbers to win a majority as you like to say so it's a no go.
12.8 million people voted for Corbyn as PM in the last election. The Tories got 13.6 so if they can't govern it falls to the party who got fewer than million less. We know the Lib dems will ignore democracy when it suits though
Pot calling kettle black from Jo Swinson. Quite clear they're all not willing to do anything to stop no deal.
Falls to him to have the next shot, yeah. And if he fails, and no deal is still a threat, someone else should get a shot.
I hope they give Corbyn first crack at forming a majority... And I hope the libs will give a free vote because when it still fails he will see he either has to back a unity candidate or force a hard brexit on the while country
I will find it hilarious when he even has labour MPs voting against him and comes up about a hundred short and has even less support than Johnson
Might be what his idiot fanboys need to see to realise he isn't the second coming... He's a very inept politician
Last edited:
That's fine but first they have to justify why they're not going with the person the public wanted after May.
Because i made my campaign about anti-corbyn and it'll win us general election votes is not an adequate reason from the Lib Dems.
Does the personal opinion of 20 odd MPs overrule the electorate? That's a big move and deserves some huge scrutiny.
Erm yes
Because Boris has sacked 20 odd mps he will loose a confidence motion... (Even though they won the election)
If somebody can pursuade those 20 odd mps to back them as well as all the opposition parties then they can form a working majority... It's clearly not jezbollah but by all means let him fall flat on his face and try... I just hope he has the humility to then back a gnu and a compromise candidate (eg Clarke) rather than force a hard brexit on the country
Both sides prefer to see how the Benn Act plays out rather than give each other an inch.
No I agree, Lib Dems should vote for him in any confidence motion otherwise they don't deserve taking seriously. But the reality is that the ex-cons are very unlikely to vote for him, so there would be a need for a compromise candidate down the line.
Though to be honest, they may all just be thinking that a confidence vote is unlikely and therefore there's little point in veering off their own talking points in the meantime.
Unlikely or unneeded
A 'unity' government no matter who leads it is a massively stupid idea(People vs Parliament shtick). The only use it has is to show that the Lib Dems hate the idea of a left wing Labour government more than leaving the EU.
They could give Johnson his election under the fixed term parliament act once an extension is secured so a confidence not Vote might not be needed plus it would prevent Corbyn having to try and show he can command a majority
It will come down to the political calculations of if it's better to damage Johnson with a confidence motion or not ... Gut feel for me is that the tribal nature of it all will see some want to inflict that particular wound on Boris
Yeah he might get a few of the ex-cons who i think said they would support him but i don't think he'd get a majority.
Swinson has scored an own goal because she can't vote against Corbyn and then complain when Labour don't support her preferred candidate. If she'd have said we'll support any candidate to stop brexit the path to an alternative would be far easier for Labour.
The only chance Corbyn has is if the Tories abstain. If they do and it's only Lib Dems stopping a GNU they'll take a lot of flak.
Swinson will offer a free vote for libs I think though I can't imagine ex conservatives and chuka or Berger backing corbyn ... With Corbyn getting first crack if once Corbyn falls short that labour reciprocate and offer a free vote on a unity candidate.
Unless they get the extension secured then they might feel it's easier to grant Boris the election under the fixed term act
Last edited:
Well they divided themselves. Boris booted out 20 of his MPs
I now understand why people cant bring themselves to vote lib dem on mass. Swinton is a major fool.
What’s the story behind Swinsons husbands company getting “HUGE EU PAYOUT?”
Anything real or just one of those mad rumours?
Anything real or just one of those mad rumours?
The fact is we will probably need a temp PM to avoid no deal, but that temp PM doesn't need to be a party leader in order to send a letter and call an election, so really there are only 2 possible reasons to insist on Corbyn rather than a HoC elder who is either standing down or has no ambition to be PM.
1. To be able to outflank the Lib Dems on being anti no deal at the next election by saying Corbyn was the one who secured an extention. This may help them retain/attract back some remain voters from the Greens and Lib Dems.
2. Knowing the Lib Dems will also know point 1 insisting on Corbyn forces the Lib Dems to oppose Corbyn as temp PM, so giving Labour a way to attack their remain credentials at the next election, achieving the same outcome.
Which ever way you look at it, Labour and Corbyn are using the threat of no deal in exactly the same way the Tories and Johnson are, for electoral gain.
1. To be able to outflank the Lib Dems on being anti no deal at the next election by saying Corbyn was the one who secured an extention. This may help them retain/attract back some remain voters from the Greens and Lib Dems.
2. Knowing the Lib Dems will also know point 1 insisting on Corbyn forces the Lib Dems to oppose Corbyn as temp PM, so giving Labour a way to attack their remain credentials at the next election, achieving the same outcome.
Which ever way you look at it, Labour and Corbyn are using the threat of no deal in exactly the same way the Tories and Johnson are, for electoral gain.
Mr Hames is the acting executive director of Transparency IntUK. According to its accounts on its own website, in 2018 Mr Hames’ company received £3,463,555 from the European Commission. Does Mrs Swinson have a vested interest in remaining in the EU?
If she does then I assume she has similar vested interest in all of these other funders of transparency international (from their website)
Government agencies
- Department for International Development (DFID), United Kingdom
- Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade (DFAT), Australia
- Federal Foreign Office (AA), Germany
- Federal Ministry for Economic Cooperation and Development (BMZ), Germany
- Federal Ministry for the Environment, Nature Conservation and Nuclear Safety (BMU), Germany
- Foreign Affairs, Foreign Trade and Development Cooperation, Belgium
- German Agency for International Development (GIZ)
- Global Affairs Canada
- Irish Aid
- Ministry for Europe and Foreign Affairs, France
- Ministry for Foreign Affairs of Finland
- Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Denmark Danida)
- Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Estonia
- Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Norway
- Ministry of Foreign Affairs, The Netherlands
- Swedish International Development Cooperation Agency (Sida)
- Swiss Agency for Development and Cooperation (SDC)
- US Department of State
- European Bank for Reconstruction and Development (EBRD)
- European Commission (EC)
- International Fund for Agricultural Development (IFAD)
- United Nations Development Programme (UNDP)
- United Nations Office for Project Services (UNOPS)
- United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC)
- United Nations Women
- Adessium Foundation
- Sigrid Rausing Trust (SRT)
- BHP Foundation
- Open Society Foundations (OSF)
- William and Flora Hewlett Foundation
- Omidyar Network
- Fidelity Charitable
- European Climate Foundation (ECF)
- Tides
- Ford Foundation
- World Wide Web Foundation
- ENEL SpA
- Equinor ASA
- EY GS LLP
- FTI Consulting
- Google LLC
- Microsoft Corporation
- Norsk Hydro ASA
- Pernod Ricard
- Sanlam Life Insurance Limited
- Siemens AG (Siemens Integrity Initiative)
- Snam S.p.A.
- Stora Enso OYJ
- Telenor ASA
- Christian Michelsen Institute (CMI)
- Civil Forum for Asset Recovery e.V. (CiFAR)
- Corporacion Transparencia por Colombia
- Financial Transparency Coalition (FTC)
- Friends of Transparency International (FOTI)
- International Association of Women Judges (IAWJ)
- International Institute for Democracy and Electoral Assistance (International IDEA)
- Journalism Development Network (JDN)
- Netzwerk für Osteuropa-Berichterstattung e.V. (n-ost)
- Proética - Capítulo peruano de Transparency International
- Rencontre pour la paix et les droits de l'homme (RPDH)
- Transparency International France
- Transparency International Hungary
- Transparency International UK
- University of Birmingham
And let's be honest the EU are going to fund transarancy international if the UK is in the EU or not .. just like dfid will and the us state department will
I dont know or care, she just sounds like a proper cnut to me.
UK politics is a joke as it is in the US and Australia.
Why? If you actually read/listen to what she and the Lib Dems have said then you'll know she is saying Corbyn can't command a majority even with the Lib Dems (a growing number of whom are ex Labour forced out by him and his supporters).
as for some evidence of this, here is a summary of current numbers in the HoC
As for Labours position, there is no reason to insist on Corbyn except to gain an electoral advantage over the Lib Dems, and Swinson has suggested alternatives from both the Tories and Labour who would be able to get a majority (note - not herself or even a Lib Dem, but backbench MPs from her main rival parties, a pragmatic reasonable suggestion)
It's obvious who the obstable to an agreement is, just as it's obvious why, Labour can't win an election without getting back at least some remain voters from the Lib Dems and the Greens so need to either outflank them by being the ones to stop no deal or damage their credentials by trying to portray them as more intersted in party politics than stopping no deal.
Why? If you actually read/listen to what she and the Lib Dems have said then you'll know she is saying Corbyn can't command a majority even with the Lib Dems (a growing number of whom are ex Labour forced out by him and his supporters).
as for some evidence of this, here is a summary of current numbers in the HoC
As for Labours position, there is no reason to insist on Corbyn except to gain an electoral advantage over the Lib Dems, and Swinson has suggested alternatives from both the Tories and Labour who would be able to get a majority (note - not herself or even a Lib Dem, but backbench MPs from her main rival parties, a pragmatic reasonable suggestion)
It's obvious who the obstable to an agreement is, just as it's obvious why, Labour can't win an election without getting back at least some remain voters from the Lib Dems and the Greens so need to either outflank them by being the ones to stop no deal or damage their credentials by trying to portray them as more intersted in party politics than stopping no deal.
I'm not sure he even gets all the labour votes to be honest
But for sure he falls flat on his face if he tries to become pm... I don't think he has the balls for that and if an extension of forced through the Benn act they will give Boris an election under the fixed term parliament act
I think most would fall into line, except maybe Hoey.
Even MPs from leave constituencies like Nandy have spoken out against no deal so I don't see why they wouldn't.
i think the libs probably offer to back him in the first round of votes (or at least not vote aganst him - berger etc might be persuadable to abstain) and the quid pro qou will be if (when) corbyn fails labour reciprocate with a compromise GNU candidate - beckett perhaps could be an acceptable compromise
Why? If you actually read/listen to what she and the Lib Dems have said then you'll know she is saying Corbyn can't command a majority even with the Lib Dems (a growing number of whom are ex Labour forced out by him and his supporters).
as for some evidence of this, here is a summary of current numbers in the HoC
As for Labours position, there is no reason to insist on Corbyn except to gain an electoral advantage over the Lib Dems, and Swinson has suggested alternatives from both the Tories and Labour who would be able to get a majority (note - not herself or even a Lib Dem, but backbench MPs from her main rival parties, a pragmatic reasonable suggestion)
It's obvious who the obstable to an agreement is, just as it's obvious why, Labour can't win an election without getting back at least some remain voters from the Lib Dems and the Greens so need to either outflank them by being the ones to stop no deal or damage their credentials by trying to portray them as more intersted in party politics than stopping no deal.
As much as the LD say they want a 2nd ref, it seems to me that it's in their interest to have a GE first. If brexit gets sorted first, I'm pretty sure they will lose a lot of their current support.
Kind of makes sense of why Swinton is reluctant to back Corbyn and go down the route of GNU and 2nd ref. I suspect that seats are more important than brexit for her.
This is likely true, but it's equally true to say there is no reason why Corbyn won't back a more neutral and obviously temporary leader other than his own self-promotion. If you blame one you have to blame the other.