Celebrity Allegations, #MeToo etc

FultonRed said:
I have seen all over Twitter this morning that some of the cast and crew of One Tree Hill have come forward and accused the show-runner and creator Mark Schwahn of sexual harassment. Some of the stories and accusations from the link below are troubling:

http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/one-tree-hill-3-1202614198/
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Hollywood must be a hell of a place when a program creator can be abusive to the entire female cast of a show for years and get away with it.

Although I do wish these declarations being issued by actresses after such long silences didn't all sound like The Feminist Manifesto. Simple statements unlarded by so much fashionable Hollywood cant would be more effective.
 
Will Absolute said:
Hollywood must be a hell of a place when a program creator can be abusive to the entire female cast of a show for years and get away with it.

Although I do wish these declarations being issued by actresses after such long silences didn't all sound like The Feminist Manifesto. Simple statements unlarded by so much fashionable Hollywood cant would be more effective.
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Agreed, the list of accusations coming out really has shown Hollywood for how vulgar a place it really is, some of the stories really are awful. As for Mark Schwahn, if all the accusations are true it really is unbelievable he has been able to behave the way he has and get away with it for so long. Incredible really.

Ødegaard said:
feck. My favorite series! :'(
feck him.
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I know I loved that programme when I was younger, to be honest I still do. Feck him is right :(
 
Will Absolute said:
Hollywood must be a hell of a place when a program creator can be abusive to the entire female cast of a show for years and get away with it.

Although I do wish these declarations being issued by actresses after such long silences didn't all sound like The Feminist Manifesto. Simple statements unlarded by so much fashionable Hollywood cant would be more effective.
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They are actors/actresses... Probably in their nature to not issue simple blunt statements.
 
FultonRed said:
Agreed, the list of accusations coming out really has shown Hollywood for how vulgar a place it really is, some of the stories really are awful. As for Mark Schwahn, if all the accusations are true it really is unbelievable he has been able to behave the way he has and get away with it for so long. Incredible really.



I know I loved that programme when I was younger, to be honest I still do. Feck him is right :(
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I watch through the series every year and got it for my birthday gift this year so I wouldn't have to worry about not finding it online anymore. I just hope I'll be able to look at the art and not think of (one of) the artist in this case. But it will be hard considering that I now know that about him & he portrays himself as this beacon of laid-back-kindness on his appearances in the show, and in addition to that the stuff with Hilary Burton were news to me also (was another actor I think that had groped her that I recently read about, supposedly it happened when she was underage as well if my memory is right).
Bah. Was the #1 dramaseries for me. Loved the characters, their evolution, how they took up serious stuff in a (in my view) proper way.
Felt like it spoke to me when I was a teenager & still these years it feels like quality work and entertainment.

Again, truly. feck him. :(
 
Disappointed with Bill Burrs thoughts on Louis. They both share the same agent so he thinks its a witch hunt and there needs to be proof so feck everybody he'll still invite the manager over for dinner.
Despite everybody being accused admitting to their part in this.
Louis manager even admitted to pressuring the victims but wouldn't have done it if he knew they were upset.
I expected more from Bill, especially when he admits he knows some of the victims.
Its that climate that lets this behaviour slide.
For MMA fans, Callen and Schaub are friends with Piven and their reasoning for his innocence was the alleged victim being too ugly to sexually assult.
It wasn't even a joke. Thats the type of support structre these people have around them
 
I think the lesson here is not too admire celebrities too much. Admire the work of people you don’t personally know and admire the people you know personally. It will save you a lot of disappointments in the long run.
 
Rams said:
I think the lesson here is not too admire celebrities too much. Admire the work of people you don’t personally know and admire the people you know personally. It will save you a lot of disappointments in the long run.
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Agreed. They're often the people who most desire to be admired as well, particularly actors and comedians - everything is just for show. They're a deranged people.
 
Rams said:
I think the lesson here is not too admire celebrities too much. Admire the work of people you don’t personally know and admire the people you know personally. It will save you a lot of disappointments in the long run.
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Very true. In the case of Mark Schwahn I never admired him, as I never looked up producers etc and have always figured the people behind characters likely aren't remotely close to them when they aren't in front of the camera. So usually I don't have issues with seeing art and ignoring the artist.

But I thought I was able to do the same with lostprophets, but haven't listened to them ever since I got to know about the awful non-human being that was their lead-vocal, and oth was so close to me in my childhood that I'm feeling the same struggle now. Hell, in my current run of the show I'm just in the 6th season (I think, my girl tends to switch cds for me) and know I'll see Mark soon as a appearance.


I do find it a bit... Weird, as a fan, to know he included a sexual-predator director figure in his show. (the guy who was originally set to direct Julian, his father & Alex's movie who was a proper asshole on top of being a predator). Makes me wonder if that could have been related to some self reflection or if I'm looking too much at it...
 
cyberman said:
Disappointed with Bill Burrs thoughts on Louis. They both share the same agent so he thinks its a witch hunt and there needs to be proof so feck everybody he'll still invite the manager over for dinner.
Despite everybody being accused admitting to their part in this.
Louis manager even admitted to pressuring the victims but wouldn't have done it if he knew they were upset.
I expected more from Bill, especially when he admits he knows some of the victims.
Its that climate that lets this behaviour slide.
For MMA fans, Callen and Schaub are friends with Piven and their reasoning for his innocence was the alleged victim being too ugly to sexually assult.
It wasn't even a joke. Thats the type of support structre these people have around them
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I haven't heard Bill's thoughts on Louis. But based on what you've said it's not surprising at all, it's in line with his thought process regarding sexual assault allegations and, more in general, the tendency to dispense with any form of nuance and just zoom to 100. I don't think the bolded has anything to do with his views, he just doesn't give a feck.
 
Bill Burr is absolutely hilarious a lot of the time but I'd never pay any attention to his views on a serious subject.
 
It's bound to be different when you know the people involved. Anyone expecting him to throw people with whom he's had decade long friendships under the bus because of something like this is expecting too much.
 
vi1lain said:
As a woman who was in a similar situation, and still froze in shock, fear and intimidation - it’s the most natural and immediate response.
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I'm so sorry to hear this has happened to you. A friend of mine recently told me she was sexually assaulted a couple of years ago. Felt terrible for her. She's been affected deeply by it. I felt really angry about it. It would be nice to see people like Cosby and Weinstein get the justice they deserve. They need to be imprisoned surely. The law must take its course.
 
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Not sure I agree with the whole thing, but its tough to argue with this.

(For me the difference is I expect more of an elected position than of a star or boss).
 
berbatrick said:
Not sure I agree with the whole thing, but its tough to argue with this.

(For me the difference is I expect more of an elected position than of a star or boss).
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He's mostly right. But the tendency to bring ideological leanings into it (both by him and everyone else who has been arguing it) is pointless. It's too widespread to have anything to do with ideological leanings - otherwise there would be clear evidence of it happening more here or there. And I'm not aware of any such data. If we go for the simplest possible explanation - people are generally cowards and don't rock the boat too much, following the lead their superiors set. That's why in all these stories, ranging from the political, cultural, athletic and whatever other industry you see managers and industry leaders sweeping it under the carpet.
 
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Tough to argue with what exactly? that is lazy parallel drawn between two completely different lines of work. Only a moron would think their ideals are better represented by electing a sexual predator to office.
 
Pfft...Robin's tweet is merely the equivalent of those fascinating Caf posts like "We can't laugh at Liverpool because we once conceded a goal".
 
Silva said:
He's mostly right. But the tendency to bring ideological leanings into it (both by him and everyone else who has been arguing it) is pointless. It's too widespread to have anything to do with ideological leanings - otherwise there would be clear evidence of it happening more here or there. And I'm not aware of any such data. If we go for the simplest possible explanation - people are generally cowards and don't rock the boat too much, following the lead their superiors set. That's why in all these stories, ranging from the political, cultural, athletic and whatever other industry there are stories of managers and industry leaders sweeping it under the carpet.
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Yup, fair enough.


entropy said:
Tough to argue with what exactly? that is lazy parallel drawn between two completely different lines of work. Only a moron would think their ideals are better represented by electing a sexual predator to office.
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I think the general point is sacrificing morals (equality for libs, chastity for cons) in favour of personal/policy expediency, with the common theme in both being sexual assault.
I just went through Doug Jones' website. He believes healthcare is a right, working people deserve a living wage school funding should be prioritised over tax cuts and considered a way to stop mass incarceration. Many conservatives, who make up the majority of Alabama, oppose these views quite heavily. Their dream nation will be a step further away if they decide to bother about Moore's unchaste behaviour.
 
SteveJ said:
Pfft...Robin's tweet is merely the equivalent of those fascinating Caf posts like "We can't laugh at Liverpool because we once conceded a goal".
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I'm sure he wanted the controversy*, but I think there is a similarity nonetheless.

*He's a college professor who spends most of his days instigating (and mostly winning) internet fights.
 
Fwiw Moore's doing quite badly in the polls. You'd expect the opposite if that hypothesis was true. Politicians mired in sexual assault or harassment allegations usually lose support, regardless of leaning.
 
berbatrick said:
I think the general point is sacrificing morals (equality for libs, chastity for cons) in favour of personal/policy expediency, with the common theme in both being sexual assault.
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I think it is dangerous to make such generalisations. Especially, when it involves someone running for public office. For all we know, Weinstein is still going to wank into plants for rest of his life. He will be an outcast who never had any responsibility towards the public or taxpayers. Which isn't the case with Moore.
 
entropy said:
I think it is dangerous to make such generalisations. Especially, when it involves someone running for public office. For all we know, Weinstein is still going to wank into plants for rest of his life. He will be an outcast who never had any responsibility towards the public or taxpayers. Which isn't the case with Moore.
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That's true, but IMO the post is about the people who ignored this behaviour.

Silva said:
Fwiw Moore's doing quite badly in the polls. You'd expect the opposite if that hypothesis was true. Politicians mired in sexual assault or harassment allegations usually lose support, regardless of leaning.
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At this point, he's a confirmed paedo or something close to that, still getting 45%ish from mainly religious voters (last I checked).
 
Ødegaard said:
I watch through the series every year and got it for my birthday gift this year so I wouldn't have to worry about not finding it online anymore. I just hope I'll be able to look at the art and not think of (one of) the artist in this case. But it will be hard considering that I now know that about him & he portrays himself as this beacon of laid-back-kindness on his appearances in the show, and in addition to that the stuff with Hilary Burton were news to me also (was another actor I think that had groped her that I recently read about, supposedly it happened when she was underage as well if my memory is right).
Bah. Was the #1 dramaseries for me. Loved the characters, their evolution, how they took up serious stuff in a (in my view) proper way.
Felt like it spoke to me when I was a teenager & still these years it feels like quality work and entertainment.

Again, truly. feck him. :(
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It's brilliant, and between my family we have all but 2 of the seasons (I think) on DVD. That's what I'm hoping too, that I will still be able to enjoy it and not judge it now knowing that about Schwahn. You know, until you just mentioned it I completely forgot he was actually in OTH for a few episodes. Yea she said that Ben Affleck groped her when she was presenting a live show when she was younger. Yea I thought it was brilliant, and probably one of the more "real" drama series out there.
Yup, definitely :(

Ødegaard said:
Very true. In the case of Mark Schwahn I never admired him, as I never looked up producers etc and have always figured the people behind characters likely aren't remotely close to them when they aren't in front of the camera. So usually I don't have issues with seeing art and ignoring the artist.

But I thought I was able to do the same with lostprophets, but haven't listened to them ever since I got to know about the awful non-human being that was their lead-vocal, and oth was so close to me in my childhood that I'm feeling the same struggle now. Hell, in my current run of the show I'm just in the 6th season (I think, my girl tends to switch cds for me) and know I'll see Mark soon as a appearance.


I do find it a bit... Weird, as a fan, to know he included a sexual-predator director figure in his show. (the guy who was originally set to direct Julian, his father & Alex's movie who was a proper asshole on top of being a predator). Makes me wonder if that could have been related to some self reflection or if I'm looking too much at it...
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Yea, the minute I heard about all this the other day I immediately remembered that character and how he behaved. I can only imagine how, when planning that role, how that discussion went down as it would be practically playing an identical role to Schwahn himself on set. I think he probably done it deliberately and thought it was a big laugh to be honest.

Before all the accusations started, I think there was only really a few actors I actually admired, and I agree with your stance that I more admired their work than anything else. Producers I was more or less ignorant too if I am being truthful. But one actor who I really did admire was Kevin Spacey, before I heard about all the rumors surrounding him and the accusations about him too. It actually made me feel awful as I used to really admire him, and I loved a lot of the roles he played in so many pieces of work (Usual Suspects, American Beauty, Seven and House of Cards to name a few), but again that was without me hearing about all the rumors of Spacey about his alleged lewd behaviour. I have seen another comment in this thread and how it demonstrates you should admire the work the produce and not the person themselves, and save your admiration for the people you know truly and who actually deserve it. That is so true, but is easy to forget sometimes. After all the scandals though, I don't think I will be making that mistake again.
 
Silva said:
Fwiw Moore's doing quite badly in the polls. You'd expect the opposite if that hypothesis was true. Politicians mired in sexual assault or harassment allegations usually lose support, regardless of leaning.
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Are you looking at national or local polls? By all accounts, the allegations haven't had much impact on the race, and Doug Jones still is the underdog. There is frustration from the national press that Alabama voters aren't responding to this as expected.
 
It's definitely witch hunt territory now.

People are shitty, both men and women. For sure, 100%, there were situations where men with power abused that power to make unwanted sexual advances on women that had little ability to refuse. For sure, 100%, there were situations where men with power made sexual advances on women that were happy to oblige, until they weren't years or decades later.

This is why we need time travel invented ASAP, so we can have a crack team of investigators go back to the moment that Louis CK jerks off into a plant, to see if the woman in question was enjoying the show, or horrified.
 
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/terry-crews-names-abuser_us_5a0c3a67e4b00a6eece57803

Actor Terry Crews has publicly called out the Hollywood executive he says sexually assaulted him at a party while courageously recalling the harrowing experience on “Good Morning America” in hopes it will encourage other victims to come forward.

“I was assaulted by Adam Venit,” Crews said on Wednesday’s program, who he noted at the time was “the head of the motion picture department at Williams Morris Endeavor, one of the biggest [talent] agencies in the world, period.”

The “Brooklyn Nine-Nine” cast member filed a police report last week on the incident and first disclosed it on Twitter last month, but did not name his alleged assailant at that time.
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