Celtic Appoint Ronny Deila As New Manager

[Sarni]

Boniek, our FA chairman has spoken. He said he has contacted everyone at UEFA prior to the decision only to find out that they had no other choice but to expel Legia from the competition under current rules.

He was advised by UEFA to contact Celtic because the only way for Legia to remain in the competition was for Celtic to declare that they won't protest and will accept the scoreline from the pitch. They refused so UEFA had to kick Legia out. The will to keep Legia in tournament was there as everyone at UEFA thought it would be fair but under rules Celtic would have to accept and they did not. Obviously it wasn't their problem but I would like to think football clubs would be fairer than that - I cannot expect them to, as I have said it is about money and you don't let €5m or so pass you by just like that. Legia's fault first and foremost although Celtic had the chance to gain plenty of worldwide respect.

What is even crazier about this is that Legia did register Bereszynski for St Patricks games initially. They did not put his name on the second list they faxed before the games and this was the error. It was terrible by Legia because they were informed on July 9 by UEFA what to do about Bereszynski case.

Anyway, @Pink Moon , and the rest - even if Vrdoljak had scored both penalties Legia would still be out. Under current rules a walkover is 3-0 UNLESS there are no other games to be played in the tie and the score is insufficient to put benefiting team through. In that scenario walkover is changed to a scoreline that does.

 

[Pink Moon]

Like I say, I do sympathise with Legia and I do feel pretty embarrassed to go through like this. That said, I don't think Legia would've gave the place away if it were us that won 6-1 and fielded a suspended player. I doubt any club would tbh. There's no morals in football any more.

 

[OGkush]

You will probably get past Maribor and get knocked out in the group stages coming 4th again. You are well behind the top European teams but so long as it's good enough to win the title and make it through Champions League qualifiers I reckon numbers make sense and you don't need to reinvest.

Aberdeen are still some way behind and it will take Rangers 4-5 more years to catch up. This Celtic side is probably the worst I have seen but it does not matter so long as they get results.

It's Maribor and they should beat Maribor.

We'll see...all I'm gonna say is we're pretty confident in Maribor's chances here against Celtic.

Celtic's stature as a club may be big, but they're as shit as they've ever been recently. (Still a better team in general, but as of now they're anything but a frightening opponent) And Maribor are no pushover, it's true they've had better squads in the past, but they've been in Europe several times, once made it through to the CL group stages, knocking out Lyon in the process.

 

[Pink Moon]

We'll see...all I'm gonna say is we're pretty confident in Maribor's chances here against Celtic.

Celtic's stature as a club may be big, but they're as shit as they've ever been recently. (Still a better team in general, but as of now they're anything but a frightening opponent) And Maribor are no pushover, it's true they've had better squads in the past, but they've been in Europe several times, once made it through to the CL group stages, knocking out Lyon in the process.

Are Maribor any good? Or is it just a case of knowing we're pretty shit these days? This is the least expectant I've ever seen Celtic fans ahead of a game v a team like Maribor. In years gone by we'd be confident but a lot of us have Maribor as favourites.

 

[Sarni]

Like I say, I do sympathise with Legia and I do feel pretty embarrassed to go through like this. That said, I don't think Legia would've gave the place away if it were us that won 6-1 and fielded a suspended player. I doubt any club would tbh. There's no morals in football any more.

I am pretty sure no one would, well maybe one or two clubs but normally in 99% cases teams would accept a walkover that favours them regardless of how unfair it is. Which is a bit sad to be honest but that's the way it is, with players diving all over the place feigning injuries to get the opposition sent off you can sense that win at all cost is the main theme for nearly all clubs.

I imagine club's worldwide respect and recognition would go over the roof had they come out and said 'we don't deserve it and we don't want it'. You get €10m for being in the CL group stages, I wonder if long term commercial revenue growth because of something like that would not exceed it.

 

[Spiersey]

I am pretty sure no one would, well maybe one or two clubs but normally in 99% cases teams would accept a walkover that favours them regardless of how unfair it is. Which is a bit sad to be honest but that's the way it is, with players diving all over the place feigning injuries to get the opposition sent off you can sense that win at all cost is the main theme for nearly all clubs.

I imagine club's worldwide respect and recognition would go over the roof had they come out and said 'we don't deserve it and we don't want it'. You get €10m for being in the CL group stages, I wonder if long term commercial revenue growth because of something like that would not exceed it.

Nah it wouldn't, people would talk about it for a day or too but I doubt anyone would buy a shirt or go to a game because they were nice.

 

[Sarni]

Nah it wouldn't, people would talk about it for a day or too but I doubt anyone would buy a shirt or go to a game because they were nice.

Probably. It could go down in history books but financially it probably would not matter much.

 

[OGkush]

Are Maribor any good? Or is it just a case of knowing we're pretty shit these days? This is the least expectant I've ever seen Celtic fans ahead of a game v a team like Maribor. In years gone by we'd be confident but a lot of us have Maribor as favourites.

well, for the past 4 years they're absolutely dominating Slovenian football, the only club that's actually run in a way (lately) that deserves admiration/respect.
then again, that in itself isn't saying much due to the quality of opposition, but they've also made it into into Europa league 3 seasons in a row the past 3 seasons, each year doing better.

11/12 - 1 point in the group stages (abysmal I know)
12/13 - 4 points in the group stages (against Spurs, Lazio and Panathinaikos)
13/14 - first time they made it past the group stages, losing 4-3 on aggregate to Sevilla in the KO stages, the eventual champions

and this season they've got as good a chance as any they've had in the past seasons to make it into the CL for the 2nd time in the club's history.

I'm not even a Maribor fan in our league since my team (Gorica) is on the other side of our country, but regardless of past rivalries, etc....everybody in Slovenia is pulling for Maribor in Europe every year.
If they managed to get into the CL the 10 million gained would mean so much to the quality of football in the league most of you can't imagine.
Sure just one team would get that money but success through time lifts up the entire league because the quality of opposition keeps getting better.

 

[Hernandez - BFA]

SHOTS FIRED! BREAKING NEWS.

Champions League: Legia Warsaw ask Celtic for one-off tie
Legia Warsaw have issued an open letter to Celtic requesting a one-off match to decide which side should progress to the Champions League play-off round.

The Polish side beat the Scottish champions 6-1 on aggregate in the third qualifying round.

However, Legia were then punished by Uefa for fielding an ineligible player in the second leg, Bartosz Bereszynski.

Celtic have been drawn to face Maribor in the play-off but now Legia want another chance to reach that stage.

More to follow.

BBC SPORT

 

[Jippy]

SHOTS FIRED! BREAKING NEWS.



BBC SPORT

On Sky they are now saying Legia have called on Celtic to withdraw altogether. He reckoned their fans won't like the way they got through...Hmmm, am not sure about that...

 

[Snake Plissken]

On Sky they are now saying Legia have called on Celtic to withdraw altogether. He reckoned their fans won't like the way they got through...Hmmm, am not sure about that...

from the ones I've encountered I can definitely say they don't have enough shame for something like that

 

[Moonred]

Smart work by Legia

 

[SirAF]

Legia fecked up, no team in Celtic's position would refuse a place in the CL. It is unfair and harsh but that's life.

 

[Avatar]

Celtic should withdraw. I care about fairness more than the law. Spirit of the law dictates they should. After all, the law is there to seek justice. Legia didn't gain any advantage with that late sub. It was a genuine mistake.

Perhaps all teams and players should stop kicking the ball out when a player is injured then !!

 

[Sarni]

Legia are absolutely clutching at straws now. Celtic had the chance to help and they refused, it's obvious now they want to progress and approaching them looking for a rematch they know they will lose having already been comprehensively beaten twice, or even asking to withdraw, is going nowhere.

It's obviously nothing to be proud of to go through like that but since they are likely to receive €10m if they progress now they won't care. In a perfect world Celtic would deny the forfeit and Legia would split CL revenue with them as a thank you gesture - neither will happen.

I think Maribor will do them though and both them and Legia will meet in EL.

 

[Shane88]

Celtic respond...

“We are disappointed by Legia Warsaw's comments. This is entirely a matter for UEFA and its processes. Accordingly, we will reserve further comment for the appropriate time.”

Not sure what I want to happen now. Maribor to knock them out or Celtic to go through and enjoy watching getting absolutely demolished 6 times.

I think I'd prefer them to get knocked out. Losing out on that Champions League money will hurt Celtic more.

 

[Scrumpet]

That open letter was a sly tactic to be fair.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

"This is entirely a matter for UEFA and its processes."

Bullshit. UEFA let Celtic make the decision on whether or not to punish Legia. Absolute bullshit for Celtic to try and act like they didn't have a say in the matter.

Can't say that I blame them for letting Legia be punished though. Winning the battles off the pitch is going to be the only way a team of Celtic's diminishing quality is going to advance in the Champions League, and they know this. That is what happens when you're the only team who is going to win your domestic league - your money guys don't see any need to invest and eventually you become just as shite in quality as the rest of your league.

 

[Pink Moon]

It's amazing how (through no fault of our own) we're being made to look like the bad guys here.

I'd understand if Legia were disqualified for such a silly and innocent error. They weren't. They simply had to forfeit a match in which a suspended player played. It's pretty basic stuff.

If football was fair maybe France would've gave Ireland their place in South Africa.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

It's amazing how (through no fault of our own) we're being made to look like the bad guys here.

I'd understand if Legia were disqualified for such a silly and innocent error. They weren't. They simply had to forfeit a match in which a suspended player played. It's pretty basic stuff.

If football was fair maybe France would've gave Ireland their place in South Africa.

Some would argue that it was a silly and innocent error. Plus, that player going on for a few minutes when the tie had already been decided didn't make one bit of difference to the result. We both know that.

 

[golden_blunder]

The Lisbon lions would be turning in their graves

 

[Wicked_Badger]

There's no way that Celtic will forfeit a potential huge windfall of cash. No team in this day and age would.

Legia didn't play by the rules, you can't field ineligible players. It's a damn shame & harsh that it was for 2 mins and didn't have any impact on the game, but what happens if the match was tied and he'd popped up and scored the winner? Everyone would say that it was ridiculous that they were appealing to be let back into the competition. Unfortunately Legia are just going to have to take the bitter pill and learn from it.

And this comes from someone who despises the Old Firm.

 

[Uniquim]

I don't see what the problem is here, the suspended player does not serve suspension unless registered in CL squad, he wasn't for the previous round so he still had games left on his supension, the UEFA rule book says the match is forfeit if a team fields a suspended player. Legia did. They fecked up, and UEFA followed their own rules.

Fine, it might not seem fair, but Legia fecked up, UEFA didn't change their rules, they were already there prior to the game. The rules aren't there to help big clubs, or anything like that, they're there so UEFA can follow them when stuff like this happens. It's not the same as the Debrecen case, because that player wasn't suspended like the Bereszynski was. Maybe the two punishments shouldn't be that different. Legia could try to take it to court or whatever, and plee for the rules to be changed, but as it stands Legia broke the rules and were punished by the pre-existing rules for instances just like this one.



And for this quote, quoted in this thread by @Kostur (on top of page 6)

I think the word in rules is "ineligible". They were both that I believe.

And appears that Legia player wasn't suspended either for that Celtic clash, but for previous three, for which he wasn't -- registered.

EDIT: Actually...

Article 14bis

Forfeit

1 A match is declared forfeit if a player who has been suspended following a
disciplinary decision participates in the match.
2 A match is also declared forfeit in application of Article 19(1) of these
regulations.
3 A match may be declared forfeit if a player who is ineligible under the regulations
of the competition concerned participates in the match, as long as the opposing
club files a protest.

Guess it's a case of #3.

It's not a case of #3, it's a case of #1. Sure he was ineligible, but he was ineligible because of a suspension.

"A match is declared forfeit if a player who has been suspended following a
disciplinary decision participates in the match."

Bereszynski was still suspended because he wasn't registered for the previous round, so he was a player who had been suspended following a disciplinary decision, and he participated in the match. It's pretty straightforward. I hope Legia chairman Dariusz Mioduski gets the rule changed, or at least gets an addendum to the rule, because I agree with him that the penalty is disproportionate to the ineligibility article, and to the impact of the 3 played minutes, but right now, there is no reason to overturn the current decision.

 

[Sarni]

There's no way that Celtic will forfeit a potential huge windfall of cash. No team in this day and age would.

Legia didn't play by the rules, you can't field ineligible players. It's a damn shame & harsh that it was for 2 mins and didn't have any impact on the game, but what happens if the match was tied and he'd popped up and scored the winner? Everyone would say that it was ridiculous that they were appealing to be let back into the competition. Unfortunately Legia are just going to have to take the bitter pill and learn from it.

And this comes from someone who despises the Old Firm.

Problem is they didn't know he was still suspended. Everyone at the club thought he had served his suspension, stupid mistake to make but nothing more than a honest mistake. You should not be able to write off two legs of a perfectly fair tie for that.

You cannot whatif this situation to make it look like it could look different, you have to look at what actually happened. You don't see a judge give life sentence to a person who accidentally took someone else's bike and rode it for weeks because in a different scenario he might have deliberately stolen a million pounds and it would still be theft.

 

[Sarni]

It's amazing how (through no fault of our own) we're being made to look like the bad guys here.

I'd understand if Legia were disqualified for such a silly and innocent error. They weren't. They simply had to forfeit a match in which a suspended player played. It's pretty basic stuff.

If football was fair maybe France would've gave Ireland their place in South Africa.

It was a silly and innocent error and they were thrown out of competition for that. As I have pointed out, 6-1 in first game would be meaningless as well because a forfeit in the second leg has to be sufficient to put you through. Even if there was no such rule we'd now be criticising Legia for not winning 7-1, it is silly.

The reason why people basically hate Celtic here now is that they did not even respond when Legia and UEFA tried to reach them on Friday. They would literally reject calls from Legia all weekend.

 

[Sarni]

"This is entirely a matter for UEFA and its processes."

Bullshit. UEFA let Celtic make the decision on whether or not to punish Legia. Absolute bullshit for Celtic to try and act like they didn't have a say in the matter.

Can't say that I blame them for letting Legia be punished though. Winning the battles off the pitch is going to be the only way a team of Celtic's diminishing quality is going to advance in the Champions League, and they know this. That is what happens when you're the only team who is going to win your domestic league - your money guys don't see any need to invest and eventually you become just as shite in quality as the rest of your league.

Well Celtic were offered a deal on Friday, had they agreed for the result from the pitch to stand there would be no discussion. They refused. I can see why Poles are angry.

Whether anyone would act like this I don't care. I hope Maribor knock them out and they miss out on CL money anyway to be fair, I know it's not their fault but I think it would be unfair to have a team that was battered 6-1 in the main round of CL. At least Maribor will have won all their ties.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Well Celtic were offered a deal on Friday, had they agreed for the result from the pitch to stand there would be no discussion. They refused. I can see why Poles are angry.

I have no issue with Celtic refusing the let the result stand. I do, however, have an issue with the management at Celtic thinking we're a bunch of idiots who will be brainwashed into thinking that they're paragons of virtue and that the decision was out of their hands. I also have an issue with that same management draining money out of the club and killing what is effectively the only half decent team that is left in the festering pit that's known as Scottish football.

There's nothing worse than turning on the TV to watch Match of the Day and finding that the English football has been replaced with Sportscene, which shows 22 folk shuffling about a muddy pitch losing the ball after dribbling for two feet or constantly scuffing their shots over the crossbar.

 

[Sir A1ex]

I'd understand if Legia were disqualified for such a silly and innocent error.

That's exactly what happened. Some idiot forgot to fill in the paper-work, there was no actual footballing misdemeanor.

 

[Sarni]

That's exactly what happened. Some idiot forgot to fill in the paper-work, there was no actual footballing misdemeanor.

It was even sillier. They did register Bereszynski for St Patricks games initially but some utter cretin crossed over his name because he thought he could not have been in match protocol because of the ban.

 

[Sarni]

I have no issue with Celtic refusing the let the result stand. I do, however, have an issue with the management at Celtic thinking we're a bunch of idiots who will be brainwashed into thinking that they're paragons of virtue and that the decision was out of their hands. I also have an issue with that same management draining money out of the club and killing what is effectively the only half decent team that is left in the festering pit that's known as Scottish football.

There's nothing worse than turning on the TV to watch Match of the Day and finding that the English football has been replaced with Sportscene, which shows 22 folk shuffling about a muddy pitch losing the ball after dribbling for two feet or constantly scuffing their shots over the crossbar.

I would absolutely get them if they picked up the phone and told Legia that they were not willing to cooperate. It is a lot of money to turn down. Instead they went into hiding mode which was, well, weird.

 

[rcoobc]

I think its worth pointing out two similar instances;

1) Last year Arsenal brought Ryo Miyaichianto all the way to Munich to play (be on the bench) against Bayern and then discovered he was illegible
2) AC Milan last year registered a player who could have been placed on their "B squad" into their "A squad" and so forced another player to miss out

There is 0 chance that Celtic will forfit the tie themselves. It's unfair to put pressure on them, in the end, its nothing to do with them. A gesture of goodwill would be nice; "x million" and it wouldn't be surprising to encourage Legia to drop any appeal .

But its between UEFA and Legia. Who is to say UEFA are correct. The CAS could find that " something something club thought player was legible something something". Are Legia appealing? We will see.

The 3-0 result is stupid anyway. Does that mean if you win the first leg 4-0 you don't need to turn up?


All I would say is that UEFA should help small clubs more. Did someone from UEFA come down to the Bayern game and say to Arsenal... By the way that Ryo feller you've got on your sub's bench isn't eligable. If they did, why not for Legia

 

[Pink Moon]

Some would argue that it was a silly and innocent error. Plus, that player going on for a few minutes when the tie had already been decided didn't make one bit of difference to the result. We both know that.

I agree it was a silly and innocent error. What I meant was I'd agree if they were disqualified because of that innocent and silly error.

 

[Pink Moon]

That's exactly what happened. Some idiot forgot to fill in the paper-work, there was no actual footballing misdemeanor.

Yeah, but they weren't disqualified, is my point.

 

[Pink Moon]

It was a silly and innocent error and they were thrown out of competition for that. As I have pointed out, 6-1 in first game would be meaningless as well because a forfeit in the second leg has to be sufficient to put you through. Even if there was no such rule we'd now be criticising Legia for not winning 7-1, it is silly.

The reason why people basically hate Celtic here now is that they did not even respond when Legia and UEFA tried to reach them on Friday. They would literally reject calls from Legia all weekend.

Where is it in the laws that the forfeit scoreline must be enough to put the opposition out? It's always been a pretty standard 3-0 as far as I was aware.

Why do you want us to respond to Legia?

Legia: Hi, Celtic, we want a rematch.
Celtic: No. Bye.
Legia: Bye.

That's how it'd go.

 

[Irish-Red-7]

Boys on here getting caught in a knot over fairness and morals. Legia made the mistake and at CL level a mistake like that shouldn't be happening whatever way you look at it.

No chance Celtic would turn down another go at the CL for praise and applause when theirs big money at stake.. and I wouldn't blame them either.

 

[Harmony Row]

Celtic are listed on the London Stock Exchange, aren't they? Does the Legia chairman understand how businesses work, especially in relation to their shareholders? I'm sure Celtic's stockholders would kick up a fuss if Peter Lawwell was to concede Celtic's place in the next round to Legia. In fact, he'd been in dereliction of his duties as the PLC's Chief Executive and would jeopardise his position at the club by acting in such an altruistic manner.

Also, Zbigniew Boniek, the president of the Polish Football Association, claims that Celtic refuse to take the phone calls of people from Poland. What does he expect them to discuss? Celtic have expressed sympathy for Legia through Delia. Boniek then says Celtic were polite, accommodating and courteous during their matches before all of this brouhaha. Absolute hogwash from Boniek. Any discussions should be between the Poles and UEFA - not Celtic and people who want to guilt them into acting against their own interests.

For any of the Poles who're reading this comment - is it true that Legia have sacked one or more employees for making the administrative error that lead to them being disqualified from the Champions League?

Edit - If it's true that they've sacked staff for the mistake but still insist that Celtic should either forfeit their place in the CL qualifier or face-off against Legia in a one-off tie then they should be embarrassed by their own hypocritical conduct. But only if it's true that they've sacked members of their backroom or office staff.

 

[Sarni]

Where is it in the laws that the forfeit scoreline must be enough to put the opposition out? It's always been a pretty standard 3-0 as far as I was aware.

Why do you want us to respond to Legia?

Legia: Hi, Celtic, we want a rematch.
Celtic: No. Bye.
Legia: Bye.

That's how it'd go.

Basically say anything. Grown men refusing to pick up the phone because they won't give you an answer and know well that it will hinder you in your appeal process is a bit silly.

 

[rcoobc]

Where is it in the laws that the forfeit scoreline must be enough to put the opposition out? It's always been a pretty standard 3-0 as far as I was aware.

Why do you want us to respond to Legia?

Legia: Hi, Celtic, we want a rematch.
Celtic: No. Bye.
Legia: Bye.

That's how it'd go.

Legia: If we can get UEFA to agree to it, will you replay the match from the 90th minute when he came on?
Celtic: No.
Legia: Well how about we replay the whole match then.
Celtic: No.
Legia: So you're just happy to go through after losing 6-1.
Celtic: Pretty much

 

[Sarni]

I think its worth pointing out two similar instances;

1) Last year Arsenal brought Ryo Miyaichianto all the way to Munich to play (be on the bench) against Bayern and then discovered he was illegible
2) AC Milan last year registered a player who could have been placed on their "B squad" into their "A squad" and so forced another player to miss out

There is 0 chance that Celtic will forfit the tie themselves. It's unfair to put pressure on them, in the end, its nothing to do with them. A gesture of goodwill would be nice; "x million" and it wouldn't be surprising to encourage Legia to drop any appeal .

But its between UEFA and Legia. Who is to say UEFA are correct. The CAS could find that " something something club thought player was legible something something". Are Legia appealing? We will see.

The 3-0 result is stupid anyway. Does that mean if you win the first leg 4-0 you don't need to turn up?


All I would say is that UEFA should help small clubs more. Did someone from UEFA come down to the Bayern game and say to Arsenal... By the way that Ryo feller you've got on your sub's bench isn't eligable. If they did, why not for Legia

The delegate most likely knew before the game that Bereszyński was not eligible and decided not to tell, seeing as he reported it straight after the game. Obviously it's not his responsbility but it does seem a little cnutish to keep such information to yourself.

I wonder how people saying it was absolutely fair to dismiss Legia from the competition for such error will react next time United get a harsh decision against them. Hopefully this 'rules are rules' trend will continue then.

 

[Sarni]

Legia: If we can get UEFA to agree to it, will you replay the match from the 90th minute when he came on?
Celtic: No.
Legia: Well how about we replay the whole match then.
Celtic: No.
Legia: So you're just happy to go through after losing 6-1.
Celtic: Pretty much

I'd be happy with that, far better than rejecting phone calls pretending not to exist.

Basically all they had to do was to sign a paper saying they will accept UEFA decision regardless of the outcome and not appeal any further on Friday. In that case, according to Boniek, UEFA could have made an exception to the rule taking circumstances under consideration (much like they did in 2005 with Liverpool and CL) and let Legia go through. Celtic refused to sign the paper and UEFA were left with no choice.

BTW Legia registered Bereszyński for St Patricks games as it turns out. They only crossed over his name before the games which basically worked as de-registering the player. Incredible stupidity.