It was that and it was more than that. While the oppressive and violent role it played in history is undeniable, modern humanism also owes a lot to Jewish and Christian thought. This is not the thread to drag this out, though. But for the differentiation you regularly demand and the disdain you show for 'uneducated idiots', many of your statements can be quite one-sided when it comes to things you criticize.
Charlottesville
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
I think you're rather ironically lumping together 'Antifa' to mean anyone who protests Nazis & and the alt-right.
Not all of these protesters set out with the intention of violence like Antifa, in fact I would argue - looking at pictures & videos - that most of these protesters aren't Antifa actually.
And when it comes to violence - do I encourage people to punch Nazis in the face? Nope, but if someone does it i'm not going to feel sorry for the Nazi in question, and I would hope it knocks sense into them.
On the same topic, when it comes to Antifa setting cars alight and destroying property - that only gives fuel to those on the other side of the political spectrum to call them thugs - so again I actively don't encourage, applaud or condone anything that antifa does, and I don't need any favours from you - thanks.
Are there any statistics that highlight the destruction that antifa causes?
It could be my ignorance, but I haven't seen evidence of their violence in the US being comparable to the violence to white supremacists, but I could be wrong on that.
I'm conflicted on this (considering that video of the event organiser running away from the crowd) but lean towards this point of view - that scumbag knew well that the vast majority of people were going to be appalled by this whole event, and to try and do a press conference after someone has died?? He deserved having to run terrified. These folks have been enabled by Trump, they need a pretty swift dose of de-enabling as soon as possible.
Nah, you can't really say that kind of statement without context.
Most multicultural countries have a history of violence/colonialism/genocide in other countries over centuries - in some cases (especially in europe) this colonial rule only came to an end ~60 years ago - that has allowed these countries to advance & develop more quickly than others - this in turn makes them desirable locations to live for those who reside in the countries which have been on the receiving end of this violence.
You can't sell the idea of the American Dream in almost every movie, or parade the British aristocracy & eloquence and not expect people to aspire to be a part of that experience, you can't take away resources from small countries for centuries, then expect the people who are left with the scraps not to want to move out.
Immigration is never talked with the perspectives of those who are actually trying to immigrate, and it hardly ever takes into account the historical context that has elevated the status of most western countries.
I can understand the confliction, I take comfort in the fact that these people are actively causing for the elimination of people like me in order to retain white supremacy in a nation they stole, and for that reason I won't shed a tear if they get punched, chased, maced etc.
1st Fella has to be on the wind up with 'Donald Trump would never give his daughter's hand in marriage to a Jew'.
Watching all the video, he seems fully, maniacally committed.
Buh bye, Daily Stormer
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/google-daily-stormer_us_5991ed2de4b08a2472767b45?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/google-daily-stormer_us_5991ed2de4b08a2472767b45?
I couldn't watch too much of it and he did but with that one line he's either calling it a lie or taking the piss. Then again whether the far right are wholely concerned with the truth is another matter.
@vi1lain Oh absolutely, if I was from a poverty stricken country I'd no doubt jump at the opportunity to move to a more developed one, that is completely natural.
Still I think it's not nearly as simple as to say that an Estonian or Pole, looking at the rising tensions in western Europe and the USA and deciding they'd rather not run the risk of similar problems arising in their own country is a racist.
Still I think it's not nearly as simple as to say that an Estonian or Pole, looking at the rising tensions in western Europe and the USA and deciding they'd rather not run the risk of similar problems arising in their own country is a racist.
Dude's not taking the piss. He's full-on over the edge.
"I've got 200 guns here and we'll get them out of there if you don't".
I won't be visiting the US for a while I reckon
Plan on visiting next year but won't be leaving NY."I've got 200 guns here and we'll get them out of there if you don't".
I won't be visiting the US for a while I reckon
Definitely not going to the middle or southern states.
They're nutters there, armed to the teeth.
NY outside of NYC is pretty red, plenty of nutjobs there.
This is debatable. I'd say that we were indirectly influenced by Classical Greek through Jewish and Christian writings rather than anything original from those faiths.
That's very simplistic way of looking at things, one would be tempted to say almost 'uneducated'. Computers work on stats and 'facts'. People think in ideas, stories and metaphors. And, like I said, all great ideas are potentially dangerous, ambiguous and unpredictable. Christianity is a haunting presence in Western thought not only because of its political and traditional stronghold, but because it enriched its imagination with a possibility of authentic ethical miracle. It is a miracle of imagination, transmitted through metaphor, not stats based prediction. And it is actually the root of humanism, liberalism and socialism/communism. Sadly, it has been greatly misunderstood through history, and today it is still widely appropriated by nationalists and clerics who are essentially anti-Christian (but too dumb to be aware of it).
Every movement has a few edgy and deviant people on the fringes. But I really don't see a violent menace you are talking about. 'Radical' Left are in fact very timid, mostly about talking, theorizing and protesting. No mass appeal for violence whatsoever. What I recognize here though is the usual paranoid anticommunism - dead giveaway for complete lack of political imagination. 'Liberals' who turn blind eye to poverty, exploitation and bombing of another countries, but are furious at unspeakable horrors of 'political correctness', are genuinely dangerous, not antifa protestors. (Which doesn't mean we should renounce liberalism.)
Can't blame you for this, as once I also thought in a similar way. But it is wrong. 20th century communism was in the end an utter failure, but it wasn't all horror and catastrophe. It initially brought emancipation and modernization to large masses of people who were living basically in serfdom. Less directly, marxist/socialist/communist ideas influenced improvement of social conditions in the West, as you mentioned. Politics is about ideas, and idea of communism essentially isn't more dangerously idealistic than liberalism or Christianity. They can be dangerous, but something good and liberating may emerge from them.
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I think at this point in time, multiculturalism is just going to naturally occur over time, especially in the larger countries.
For all the things they fought for i doubt half of them knew the definition of each ideology the fought for.
"I've got 200 guns here and we'll get them out of there if you don't".
I won't be visiting the US for a while I reckon
There's absolutely no reason to avoid visiting the US unless you're intending on seeking these kind of people out.
Well, plenty of other people don't think it's naive.
https://www.engadget.com/2017/08/15/intel-ceo-brian-krzanich-drops-out-trump-council/
That guy said worse things towards the end of the video, after taking out all his weapons ( a knife, 3 9mm & an assault rifle.)
How the guy that commited the terrorist act was acting in self defence and that he had no sympathy for the victim and many more will die before this ends.
There is no reasoning with these people, batshit insane radical cnuts.
If you visit, you should travel as much as possible - and don't believe the stereotypes. The south is a great place to visit.
Meh. There's plenty of reasons. I also don't want to endorse this government with my tourism. I've been to the states many times and travelled all over. I'm voting with my non-feet.
That's merely US politics, they love to scapegoat and somehow conveniently lump all problems into one pile or another rather than reflect on any true change. And Trump just happens to be an easy yet justifiable target for any sensible person's anger - doesn't mean he's responsible for the idiocy in the US, it was there before him & sadly will continue without him.
Visiting the US is no more an endorsement of Trump than living in the UK is an endorsement of May or Brexit, that's just daft.
Did visiting the US under W endorse him? Did it endorse the war in Iraq?
Considering it debatable is all I'm asking for. I'm not terribly 'educated' on this issue, but from what I learned & read so far, I think there may indeed be original ideas among their heritage - especially, but not only, on rather far-reaching moral issues. Still a work in progress for me.
But there needs to be no copyright on ideas anyway, all of them can at least partly be traced back to something older. If (proto-)enlightened ideas were absorbed by a religion, then they became part of that religion as well.
As I said, I'd prefer not to continue fundamental debates on religion, communism, capitalism etc. here, as this thread is about something else. I'm sure there will be other opportunities in the future, quite a few posters seem to have views on these issues.
Not just that but @Rado_N is wrong, there are plenty of additional reasons to avoid visiting the US - unfortunately I have to go back from time to time but I stress about it from the moment I get on the plane heading there until the moment I get back on for my return. Aggressive drivers & traffic, deteriorating infrastructure & public transportation, mistrust if not outright hostility towards foreigners, gestapo Border security unlike any other country, trigger-happy police, tipping, concealed weapons (all 50 states have some sort of law permitting the carrying of concealed weapons, 31/50 states have an open carry law without any license or permit), water quality and don't discuss politics, gender or race.
Yes, there are fantastic things to do & see in the US but of course there are very good reasons to avoid it due to the increasing uncertainty about how stable or inviting it is for foreign visitors. After all, a country made from immigrants yet looks to keep foreigners out is not exactly waiting for you with open arms
I live in the US and travel in and out frequently and can't relate to any of this. Its the same as its always been.
You're in LA, there's no way you can't agree that traffic hasn't gotten worse. Of course, I always liken life in the US as a bit like the hamster in the wheel syndrome - you never really appreciate what is going on there until you actually step off the wheel
I've been to the US more times than I can count and have never experienced any of that.
You're also speaking about 50 different states and an enormous number of cities, I'd be interested to know how many you've actually visited to be so conformable making such sweeping generalisations about the entire country.
I've been spending most of my time in Phoenix and Virginia over the past year. Haven't noticed any changes anywhere in the US during the Trump phenomenon. I drove cross country through the deep south a couple of months ago and everything seemed completely normal.
Not sure if you are understanding what my original post was about. I am not claiming that Trump started these hate groups, but his rhetoric about immigrants and other groups of people have given these hate groups a reason to feel that they can do whatever they want with impunity. Everyone has seen the lack of response from Trump in regards to these matters. This is a President who employs 2 well known racists in his government in Steve Bannon and Jeff Sessions.
Of course there are differences, I never implied one place/state/city is exactly like another but the mere fact that most of America has open handgun laws already makes it unlike any other country on the planet. Road rage didn't start in Tibet
I understood and I don't disagree that Trump has certainly gave some courage to bigots & xenophobes to openly show their ignorance/hatred, just that it's always been there irrespective of Trump
You'll be impressed how much LA has gotten worse in terms of traffic which is hard to imagine
Yeah, easy to forget the sheer size and variety in the US when it comes to landscape, political views, laws etc. There's plenty I dislike about it as a country but I very much doubt the country is unpleasant to visit as a whole.
Your post was a list of supposed reasons not to travel to the US, purportedly as evidence of me being "wrong" to say there's no reason to avoid it.
I've never seen anyone other than a police officer openly carrying a firearm and have never been caught up in any road rage in my numerous trips to the US.
I did hate driving in LA around rush hour though, I'll give you that, the traffic is horrific, but thats no reason not to go to the place.