That is just a lie that Moyes sold and people naively bought
Only Evra ,RVP and Carrick were regular starters for us above 30. And and the latter two were in peak form too. Two of them making it into the team of the year too.
Chelsea 2017/18 thread - FA Cup Champs, League chumps
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Only Evra ,RVP and Carrick were regular starters for us above 30. And and the latter two were in peak form too. Two of them making it into the team of the year too.
Hilarious post really, not as good anymore even though we've won 2 of the last 3 titles and will compete again for it this year... Ox didn't want to come because he isn't better than any of our midfielders and that's where he wanted to play, simple really.
Baka wanted to come enough that he turned down united city and psg so im fine with that.
Many of us were thinking it long before Moyes turned up. People had been looking at the very obvious weaknesses in your midfield for a season or two at that point, and asking why SAF hadn't brought in the players you very obviously needed to correct it. Of course he had the last laugh there, as he won the title regardless, but when he left your squad was in desperate need of a significant rebuild, and Moyes turned out to not have the ability to provide it (to be fair it was probably an unreasonable expectation for anyone, considering the shoes he was filling).
I've yet to hear a single person who isn't a United fan claim that that last title winning squad was anything other than weak though. It was a mix of club legends coming to the close of their United careers, young players who werent anything like as good as some people thought they were, and some fairly average filler. A bit like the Chelsea team who won the CL in fact.
I agree with this. Our squad was neglected for years in terms of investment, especially in midfield, and not replacing the likes of Giggs and Scholes (who retired and actually came back!), a once brilliant but ageing defense, wingers who were good all simultaneously turning to shit (Valencia, Nani, Young), a declining Rooney, average academy products (Welbeck, Cleverley). We won that title because of the brilliance of SAF at man management, having the best non Messi/Ronaldo striker in the world, Carrick being in the form of his life, and let's face it, a pretty weak PL that season overall.
None of those clubs were in for Bakayoko.
Very odd for Bakayoko to specifically mention that in an interview only 2 days ago then.
But hey its more likely your ITK than the player himself really.
Oh he said that? Definitely believe him then.
Again, that's really not true.
It was a lot of young players supplemented by older heads . People talk like were Milan in 2008.
What happened is that once Sir Alex retired, none of the younger players pushed on (Welbeck,Evans,Rafael,Jones,Smalling). In fact most of them regressed big time.
The United were aging is just one of those lies told so many times that people started believing it.
The man himself said so.
You say they regressed, have you ever considered that they just weren't good enough in the first place? Because that's what plenty of other people thought at the time.
Bakayoko isn't PL proven and he's far inferior to Matic imo.
Matic obviously wanted out for a reason. Why would he want to leave if he thought you were still the best team? He obviously saw the issues and limitations of the team once Chelsea were to step into several competitions this season.
It's not really that far fetched to think we still have a greater pull for players than you, despite Chelsea being champions. So I can definitely imagine Ox and Barkley not wanting to join you as easily as they would if we were calling, despite what they say in public. While Drinkwater is a Man Utd reject, him I can see wanting to join you.
Matic is literally the player that since 14/15 season Chelsea most fans have wanted to see replaced and improved. Just because he suits your system where he can sit and doesn't have to do anything more doesn't make his performances for us last year any better.
Matic is hardly champions league proven ( the highest level ) I cant remember him playing well in the champions league at any point really tbh since hes played for us so pretty stupid to judge players on that when baka excelled in the champions league. Baka will come good for us and will be much better than matic, I have no doubt about that. If matic did see any limitations I am sure they were his own due to us wanting Baka to phase him out since march/april.
Lastly yes im sure when you come calling Ox would've jumped at the chance to be a squad player for you (which is the reason he wants pool instead of us) because no one can turn you down "Insert Fabinho, Griezmann, Perisic & Bale here"
Luiz is not poor defensively. If we bought VVD, and had Azpilicueta-VVD-Luiz-Christensen-Alonso, that'd be the meanest defense in the league by far. I love that we got him back on deadline day because he was a revelation for us.
I have to support @K2K here.
I can't remember whether it was Jones or Zaha, but when SAF bought one of those young players, SAF mentioned in the interview that he was buying young players to make sure that the next manager would have quality successors in the future. Obviously, he already had Moyes in mind, and many of those purchases, such as Zaha, Jones, and Smalling, were made to help Moyes.
We don't have the ability to set up an alternate universe to see if they would have succeeded if SAF had stayed on for another 2 to 3 years. But many United players, except for CR7, Beckham and Tevez (if you consider him a United player even though he was not technically one), never found equal or more success after leaving United. Jones is in the running for the United player of the month and DDG is one of the best keepers in the world, so you can see that SAF was somehow correct in his judgment, just that there wasn't any consistency or good tutelage toafter he left.
SINCE this is a Chelsea thread, I have to say something about Chelsea.
Fernando Llorente is coming, so I guess Batshuayi is going out on loan or something? I think Batshuayi does not have the first touch, strength, or movement to play as a single striker yet, especially since Chelsea requires their front man to be aggressive in winning headers or holding up the ball. I guess he will do well at a club where he is strictly a striker or a poacher. I saw Batshuayi during the pre-season in Singapore against Inter and Bayern and he does not look to be able to contribute much towards the front line against big teams (Hazard was not there too). Perhaps a good decision to send him out.
I think United fans have overrated Matic from his United performances and think therefore he delivered the exact same for the Chelsea team last season. The main criticism I seen of him was his lack of creativity an that he wasn't needed as much with Kante there, but for us we have Pogba so his lack of creativity isn't an issue. I wouldn't say he's massively uncreative as he can play some key passes but it's not one of his main strengths but his main strengths are now one of the key components of the United team as it gets the best out of Pogba which was the main issue we needed to address this summer.
He has been terrific for us thus far in that aspect as Pogba has been playing excellently so far with less emphasis on defending as he has Matic there breaking play up, being tactically smart and allowing him to attack.
I did see alot of Chelsea fans last season and most definitely the year before criticise Matic and say that while he is a good player and not a massive weak link, they wouldn't mind an improvement. I don't think it was a case of Matic wanting to leave a 'sinking ship' to join a team on the up, I'm not 100% sure if Conte wanted him gone or not but it seems they have wanted Bakayoko for a long time and he was not neccsarily a replacement for Matic once he had gone, but more like he was going to come in and replace Matic regardless.
Either way, it's a cracking signing for us and a big loss for Chelsea even if he was to play less this season with the introduction of Bakayoko.
He has been terrific for us thus far in that aspect as Pogba has been playing excellently so far with less emphasis on defending as he has Matic there breaking play up, being tactically smart and allowing him to attack.
I did see alot of Chelsea fans last season and most definitely the year before criticise Matic and say that while he is a good player and not a massive weak link, they wouldn't mind an improvement. I don't think it was a case of Matic wanting to leave a 'sinking ship' to join a team on the up, I'm not 100% sure if Conte wanted him gone or not but it seems they have wanted Bakayoko for a long time and he was not neccsarily a replacement for Matic once he had gone, but more like he was going to come in and replace Matic regardless.
Either way, it's a cracking signing for us and a big loss for Chelsea even if he was to play less this season with the introduction of Bakayoko.
This is spot on. Matic is by no means a bad player but the reality is he fits better into the system at United than he does at Chelsea. I think most Chelsea fans would have preferred to sell him elsewhere rather than improve a rival, but so be it.
Suggesting that Matic pushed for a move because he viewed Chelsea as a sinking ship is frankly ludicrous.
The most grounded post iv seen on here in a very long time.
In terms of what he offered us in our system and what we want from a cm he wasn't enough and hopefully baka will be better.
But in terms of how his style has helped your team and how he is what pogba needed it's a very good signing. Nail on the head really.
There's a Dutch player called Ake who did very well at Bournemouth last year, he's only 22 and can play multiple positions and has recently broke into the Dutch national team. Think he went for around 20 million this Summer
Also there's a midfielder called Chalobah, quite highly rated and has recently been called up to the England squad, Watford bought him for only 5 million and from what I've heard he's made a very good start to the season
These would have been good signings for Chelsea IMO would have offered great depth, both young and even better they are also homegrown
Surprised Chelsea never went in for them
Oh wait....
Conte won't be happy with this market window, results will dictate his mood wildly. Bomb ticking.
So it looks like you will loose out on Llorente to Spurs now, lol.
It is true that he fits better here but he is still a much better player than Bakayoko imo. We will see how ludicrous it is in a few months time when we're fighting for top spot while Chelsea for fourth.
I cannot believe how naive Chelsea appear to be in the transfer market. Their strategy appears to be:
- Identify a target,
- Get close to agreeing a fee without reaching an agreement,
- Play a waiting game,
- Get outbid by another team,
- Panic and match the offer,
- Get turned down by the player.
The champions may lose out on players to Liverpool and Spurs. That is shocking. Oxlade Chamberlain is particularly embarrassing. How can you get that close before realising the player doesn't want to join?
- Identify a target,
- Get close to agreeing a fee without reaching an agreement,
- Play a waiting game,
- Get outbid by another team,
- Panic and match the offer,
- Get turned down by the player.
The champions may lose out on players to Liverpool and Spurs. That is shocking. Oxlade Chamberlain is particularly embarrassing. How can you get that close before realising the player doesn't want to join?
Yep... Go back to the final when Matic was playing against Chelsea for Benfica. World class performance! We all know that he can be that good. Still there were some issues with him. If he can sort them out at United, he will be your best CM.
Losing out on Lukaku, Ox and now Llorente..
What's going on. Really bizarre stuff.
Conte will walk.
Yep, Marina Granovskaia is not good at the whole buying players aspect of her job.
The reality is that Conte still saw him as an important player in the team but he wanted to leave. Conte didn't want him to. That's very clear. You can speculate about why he wanted to leave and twist it in whatever way suits your club, but if you focus purely on what we know, that's it.
What fans thought of him was equivalent to what United fans thought of Carrick. It didn't align with what the manager thought at all and for the most part was just an example of a spoilt fanbase. An important player in 1/3 of your entire league title collection wasn't good enough. Fecking hell.
Rejected by Lukaku, Ox, Llorente in the same window and they all went on to sign on for rivals. Ouch.
Don't feel bad for them though, they are likely to sign Drinkwater.
I think the Chelsea youth team is merely to make money from loans and sales.
They probably have more players on loan than a playing squad.
At least Morata looks just as productive as Lukaku in these early days. That's about all I can hang my hat on at this point.
Sucks to be a Leicester fan
Zappacosta signing then for 25m so that's our wing back, Mahrez and drinkwater still on (it seems)
Underwhelmed or happy?
He replaced Darmian as RB in Torino FC.
Has also few caps for the national team -- basically due to Florenzi's injury last year.
Good player, more or less the same level as Darmian (or - at least - as Darmian before joining MU). Perhaps a bit more fit for premier league than Darmian in terms of pace and stamina.
I honestly have no clue about this Zappacosta guy so will have to reserve judgement, seeing as Conte managed in Serie A I will trust his opinion but obviously that doesn't mean it will necessarily work so jury is out.
Would be happy with drinkwater as he provides depth and would be a good 4th choice also has a good partnership with fab.
Mahrez lastly I would be delighted with our squad lacks creativity which he has in abundance really really hope we get this one over the line.
Who the feck is Zappacosta?
First Lukaku, now Llorente. Conte will likely have no fingernails or hair left by midnight tonight. Oxlade-Chamberlain knocking them back to go to Liverpool instead, if they miss out on Mahrez and Drinkwater, add that to Bayern saying no to selling Rafinha and Conte must be almost the bottom of his list of targets. Losing Matic as well, obviously.