Do you think Man United will go further than Chelsea in the Champs League this season? If so, care to make a small bet?
Chelsea 2017/18 thread - FA Cup Champs, League chumps
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Do you think Man United will go further than Chelsea in the Champs League this season? If so, care to make a small bet?
Can't help but think they've been weakened this season.
Costa and Matic look to be off and their replacements are Morata and Bakayoko. That doesn't look good from where I'm standing.
Rudiger in for Zouma aswell. Not sure about that one.
I'm almost certain they won't be winning the league this season.
Costa and Matic look to be off and their replacements are Morata and Bakayoko. That doesn't look good from where I'm standing.
Rudiger in for Zouma aswell. Not sure about that one.
I'm almost certain they won't be winning the league this season.
£10?
Done. To the Caf? Or to your grubby mits
I'd agree. Not really strengthened and they have CL
Here we go again with the betting
Fyi: Nothing to do with you Duffer, just between TheReligion and I
You can donate the caf if you want. I'm spending your money on a Alvaro Morata mug.
Here we go again with the betting
Fyi: Nothing to do with you Duffer, just between TheReligion and I
Ha ha did you pay up?
Donate my car?
Ive won one get on here before. Someone bet that Moyes would last longer than Jose a few years ago.
Niall never got back to us on how to do it, due to the paypal thing being removed on the bottom page.
Your car or £10. Whatever is worth more.
£50K motor on a copper's salary? You're on the take!
POCA
I think if Hazard stays and stays fit Chelsea will have a great season. Morata is top class in my opinion. Very intelligent and a great finisher. Whenever I've seen them play well it has been Hazard who has provided the spark.
They have one of the best keepers in the world and a manager who knows how to shape a defence. Matic didn't do much last season and in Kante they had the replacement before Matic goes (assuming he does). They might bring another player or two in but there is no doubt they'll be top four in my eyes.
The spine of the team is very strong. Top keeper, great defensive unit built around Azpilicueta and Cahill, Kante in the middle, Hazard floating around and Morata up front.
Being in Europe this term will test them and they were very lucky with regards injuries last season but I think if you're writing them off you're wrong. I could see them retaining the title but if pushed I think 3rd.
They have one of the best keepers in the world and a manager who knows how to shape a defence. Matic didn't do much last season and in Kante they had the replacement before Matic goes (assuming he does). They might bring another player or two in but there is no doubt they'll be top four in my eyes.
The spine of the team is very strong. Top keeper, great defensive unit built around Azpilicueta and Cahill, Kante in the middle, Hazard floating around and Morata up front.
Being in Europe this term will test them and they were very lucky with regards injuries last season but I think if you're writing them off you're wrong. I could see them retaining the title but if pushed I think 3rd.
That is still one weakness in my eyes. Fabregas is the only other player who can reliably create openings in static situations or under heavy pressure, and he probably won't be part of the first team in many games. Last season, when opponents managed to take Hazard out of the game, the rest of the team couldn't really compensate in terms of creativity. It didn't happen often, but it happened towards the end of the season, so I guess it will be tried again this year.
So far, Chelsea has not bought a mainly creative player to aid those two (or replace them, if necessary). It remains to be seen if the intended general upgrade in squad quality is enough in situations where the creative main men are injured, benched or simply have a bad game. One big factor might be how the search for better wingbacks pans out.
Pedro says hi.
I don't know where this myth about us lacking creativity comes from. Our attackers are highly creative and great at picking apart defences. Fabregas adds a whole new level with his world class passing of course, and having someone like Eden who can just rip a defence apart on his own when he feels the urge is a huge advantage, but the likes of Willian and Pedro are great at setting up attacks, and Moses with his direct pace adds yet another dimension.
Sure we might struggle if our two most creative players were magically removed from the equation, but there's basically no reason why they would be. Hazard is injured but back fairly soon and Fabregas has been promised a lot more game time. We're strengthening where we need too, not just doing a City and buying every high priced attacker on the market.
All the top 6 (Except city) would struggle in attack if you removed there 2 most creative players. I think thats why its important theyve explored a different option up top e.g someone with technical ability that gives us varied options. Thats why its also important he gets the team used to other formations like 3-5-2 and 4-3-3(maybe) and important we get stronger which is what weve done with our transfers so far and will do with the 3 more that come in before the window closes.
Yes I think 3-4-3 or 3-5-2 is our most likely set up and also think we will struggle to get both Fabregas and Hazard into the same team against top opposition.
Of course if Hazard went and we bought someone like Griezeman in Jan then 3-5-2 might be our preferred set up.
For them to both be in the same lineup against a big team it would have to be 3-4-3 and they both play as the attackers either side of Morata.
TBH both skilful players though don't see either of them being
Theoretically yes that would work, yet Conte rarely used it last season and I suspect for a reason.
Theoretically yes that would work, yet Conte rarely used it last season and I suspect for a reason.
What do you guys think of Conte's poor cup record? I feel he's been found wanting tactically at times.
He knows his system very well and his teams are well-drilled and maintain high levels. But in one-off games, it works against him because the opponent knows his plan and his in-game tactical innovation is questionable.
He knows his system very well and his teams are well-drilled and maintain high levels. But in one-off games, it works against him because the opponent knows his plan and his in-game tactical innovation is questionable.
That's a fair point and when we played Spurs in the semis resting Hazard and Costa gave us the initial edge.
The cup record is not necessarily poor. Sure He has not won a cup yet but that record would make most managers
proud.
2011-12
Coppa Italia finalist
2012-13
Coppa Italia semi finals (going out to eventual winners)
Champions league qtr finals (going out to eventual winners)
2013-14
Europa league semifinal
Euro 2016
Qtr finals while dispatching Spain and Belgium with one of the worst Italian teams in a generation. Widely applauded during the competition as a coaching masterclass.
2016-17
FA Cup finalist
Not possible. Fabregas will suck as a right forward.
No of course @AshfordLad , it's not a poor record on its own. Maybe a better description would be 'relatively poor'.
Still, it's underwhelming given his league record. The way he sets up his teams is more suited to the league format it seems. In cups, he comes up against an opponent that matches his system or is in a position to exploit its weaknesses. In those situations, he comes up short.
He's still in his early days as a manager though, and will improve in that aspect. I found it interesting because the PL has some great managers at the moment and Chelsea, being the defending champions, will be targeted.
Still, it's underwhelming given his league record. The way he sets up his teams is more suited to the league format it seems. In cups, he comes up against an opponent that matches his system or is in a position to exploit its weaknesses. In those situations, he comes up short.
He's still in his early days as a manager though, and will improve in that aspect. I found it interesting because the PL has some great managers at the moment and Chelsea, being the defending champions, will be targeted.
Not really, imo. He has good technical abilities and a knack for passing and quick combinations, but I don't think he has the reliability in creating that a true playmaker has. So for me he's a great adjutant that raises the level of combinational play, but not one to carry the main creative burden. He was very much part of the teams that struggled when Hazard was nullified and Fabregas was on the bench, and imo he couldn't take over.
See above. I don't want to put down Pedro, Willian and Moses (although he's the weakest here), they sure have good creative abilities. But on the highest level of CL football (where Conte wants to challenge) I wouldn't call them 'highly creative'. They also weren't enough when United and Arsenal managed to stop Hazard, which was my point.
I already said that raising the overall quality of the team might be an option to compensate for that: Bakayoko has box-to-box qualities missing so far, and one or two new wingbacks might provide more attacking threat from the flanks. And I also said it remains to be seen if that will prove to be enough in future situations like this.
It doesn't need magic. Mourinho nullified Hazard, and Fabregas was on the bench for ~55 minutes. When he came on it still wasn't enough to reliably play around Uniteds constant pressure. I'm not sure about Wenger's specific tactics in the FA cup final, but the result was the same anyway: An ineffective Hazard and no Fabregas for ~1h. So these two were removed from the equation for large parts of the games I referred to.
So we're only considering one of our two game then?
Not my intention, this is what I wrote:
So I think you may read too much general criticism into what I'm saying.
All in all this Chelsea side is a well organised, well balanced side full of good to very good players suited to their role, and it has a top manager. It doesn't have many weaknesses, but like every team in the world (including Barca, Bayern, Atletico, and even Real...) it has some specific ones. Situations in which the team is less comfortable and more vulnerable than normal. And I was focussing on games where I think the opposing team successfully adressed these weaknesses.
Yeah that's fair. Spurs probably did the best job of nullifying us, which was odd as they were mirroring 3 at the back.
Yeah, and Arsenal has done that mirroring too. Perhaps it's a means to create direct assignments to opposing players, some kind of semi man-marking to aid the pressing?
In my eyes, one common trope about these three losses was immediate aggressive pressing during earlier stages of Chelsea's possession. At least in the games against Spurs and United, this caused a huge amount of turnovers (it was surprisingly even in the FA cup final, but I remember it being similar during the first half).
Playing comfortably into the final third under intense pressure is one of the most difficult team skills, and that's something I feel this Chelsea side can still get better at (hence my focus on having several 'playmakers'). But of course Conte is still in the process of building his team, and I guess it needs at least another summer window to upgrade the personell as he wants to.
In the end, I meant it exactly as I said: I'm curious to see how Chelsea will try to avoid getting choked like this in similar future scenarios, especially when Hazard is prevented from having his usual impact.
Well our defense is looking surprisingly poor so far. I'm more distracted by the commentator saying 'David Luish' all the time though..
A bit unnecessary
Conte still salty after the lesson at OT it seems.
Slowly starting to dislike Conte, didn't mind him initially but that comment and his OTT celebration when they beat us annoyed me.
Wolf eyed pasta chucker.
Wolf eyed pasta chucker.
Didn't Conte also pointed finger at Tottenham about their ambition just now? Not saying he's wrong on the idea, but he seems to be quite bold in saying that.
What lesson was that? How to spend a lot of money and finish 6th?