Chelsea appoint Thomas Tuchel

TheMagicFoolBus said:
Probably? There's a famous story during his time in Germany - he felt his players were playing long balls down the touchline too frequently and that these types of passes were inherently ineffective given the typical gamestate and their approach / personnel. So in order to train his team to play diagonally more often, he had them train on a diamond shaped pitch, with the corners removed entirely. In addition to the tactical benefits, he felt like there were psychological benefits - instead of the coach blowing his whistle and saying that such and such pass is bad, players felt more encouraged to try to solve problems creatively and also were better trained to look for aggressive diagonals in matches when passes down the line were available.
Click to expand...

I'm trying to envision this but I can't get my head around how this would work. If the corners are removed then the players would also be bunched on the diagonal line on both sides. What space would there be to play diagonal balls?! Unless it was 7 aside or something.

WeePat said:
He's a very engaging character. I could listen to him all day in all honesty. I dont want to fall head over heels for a new manager so soon but this guys is making it hard :)

Click to expand...


Speaks really well and totally get the 'I'm a coach and I coach players to be better vibe'. Could do very well annoyingly.
 
criticalanalysis said:
I'm trying to envision this but I can't get my head around how this would work. If the corners are removed then the players would also be bunched on the diagonal line on both sides. What space would there be to play diagonal balls?! Unless it was 7 aside or something.



Speaks really well and totally get the 'I'm a coach and I coach players to be better vibe'. Could do very well annoyingly.
Click to expand...
Comes across really well.
 
Theres some beef between him and Demba Ba regarding the racism incident in the CL. Ba wouldnt elaborate but said Tuchel said something that Ba found out of order, perhaps he was dismissive.

Ba seemed pretty disgusted by it.
 
criticalanalysis said:
I'm trying to envision this but I can't get my head around how this would work. If the corners are removed then the players would also be bunched on the diagonal line on both sides. What space would there be to play diagonal balls?! Unless it was 7 aside or something.

Speaks really well and totally get the 'I'm a coach and I coach players to be better vibe'. Could do very well annoyingly.
Click to expand...

The main goal was to get midfielders and fullbacks to play passes from the touchline in midfield towards the centre rather than taking the safer option down the line - and making those passes more difficult given greater congestion would also make it comparatively easier in games. Tuchel has spoken openly about how he wants his training to be extremely difficult and engaging psychologically (moreso than physically) so decisions made in matches are more straight-forward.
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
Fair enough re: Hummels! Don't know why I thought that was a free :wenger: .

I've seen the reports on the SMS he sent; that seems a colossal brainfart. To be fair, reports also suggested Zorc was trying to interfere with his team selection and that was the substance of the SMS, so on that basis he was right to complain.

His second season got derailed because instead of building on what he'd done in pushing Bayern to the brink, the club sold his key players despite assuring him that wouldn't happen and then giving him youth. I'd argue it's to his credit that he turned Dembele into a massive profit for Dortmund and Guerreiro into a top top player. If the club breaks promises to you is that not a basis to feel aggrieved?

I'm sorry, but the link you've posted there is comically bad. Tuchel said publicly that it was a disgrace the team had to play when they did and the Dortmund hierarchy agreed to it - I'd far more trust statements in the public domain than unnamed sources from a journalist who's clearly trying to push an agenda.

I definitely agree that Tuchel can be a challenge to work with. I just don't think he's on par with someone like, say, Antonio Conte.
Click to expand...

I'd like to see what articles you're basing this all on actually, because I'm curious to see who reports this.
For example the SMS thing supposedly happened while they all met up during their holidays to discuss strategy. So in that light "Zorc was trying to interfere with his team selection and that was the substance of the SMS, so on that basis he was right to complain." sounds a bit wild.

Dortmund being in a situation where they have to let go star players at some point is a reality Tuchel, being German, was well aware of. Hummels he pushed out himself with his dispute, Gündogan always wanted to leave anyway, he only signed a one year extension before that season, because he got injured again.
What you're actually referring to is Watzke telling fans he's sure not all three would leave, supposedly, because they had some preliminary verbal agreement with Mkhitaryan which the player later went back on. And what Tuchel did wasn't merely being frustrated about players lost, it was an attempt to influence transfer policy via public pressure, so the club would abandon its long term strategy in favour of short term solutions that in the end all turned out mediocre and would have set the club back for years if it followed Tuchel's wishes. It was a bit like Mourinho's love with 30 year olds.

That link is a write up of excerpts from a book written by Pit Gottschalk, at the time chief editor at a local media group (WAZ), now chief editor at a sports broadcasting station. It is of course only one side to a story, but it's not exactly a random no-name reporter with an axe to grind.
 
I watched the Wolves game, and thought they came out with a really clear and distinctive style there. Very intensive and efficient high press, massive possession, with the ball mostly moved around quickly. A lot of the chances seemed to come from through balls to wide players. A bit creaking on the creativity front, but at least they completely dominated the game, looked like a pretty good foundation to work from to me.

I didn't watch the Burnley game, but the stats seem to tell a similar story for that game (about 70% possession and Burnley had a solitary shot, none on target).
 
He’s a top coach and will undoubtedly get them playing much better football. I just hope it’s not long before he manages to piss off Abramovich and the board before actually winning anything.
 
justsomebloke said:
I watched the Wolves game, and thought they came out with a really clear and distinctive style there. Very intensive and efficient high press, massive possession, with the ball mostly moved around quickly. A lot of the chances seemed to come from through balls to wide players. A bit creaking on the creativity front, but at least they completely dominated the game, looked like a pretty good foundation to work from to me.

I didn't watch the Burnley game, but the stats seem to tell a similar story for that game (about 70% possession and Burnley had a solitary shot, none on target).
Click to expand...

Someone tried to compare their possession and passing to ours, but honestly, it's not the same. Even after two games you can already see how those players know what they're being asked to do and Tuchel really knows how to create 1v1 and 2v1 situations in dangerous areas. That's not something that happens by accident.
 
Hoof The Ball said:
Someone tried to compare their possession and passing to ours, but honestly, it's not the same. Even after two games you can already see how those players know what they're being asked to do and Tuchel really knows how to create 1v1 and 2v1 situations in dangerous areas. That's not something that happens by accident.
Click to expand...
Its also not something you cant coach in a week? .
 
He is a good coach and a huge upgrade on Lampard. He will do well but he may need his own players this summer, not sure if roman can give another 150 odd million to spend.
 
WeePat said:
He's a very engaging character. I could listen to him all day in all honesty. I dont want to fall head over heels for a new manager so soon but this guys is making it hard :)

Click to expand...

He speaks well for a fraud but I suppose all the best frauds can.


weißer Text
 
do.ob said:
I'd like to see what articles you're basing this all on actually, because I'm curious to see who reports this.
For example the SMS thing supposedly happened while they all met up during their holidays to discuss strategy. So in that light "Zorc was trying to interfere with his team selection and that was the substance of the SMS, so on that basis he was right to complain." sounds a bit wild.

Dortmund being in a situation where they have to let go star players at some point is a reality Tuchel, being German, was well aware of. Hummels he pushed out himself with his dispute, Gündogan always wanted to leave anyway, he only signed a one year extension before that season, because he got injured again.
What you're actually referring to is Watzke telling fans he's sure not all three would leave, supposedly, because they had some preliminary verbal agreement with Mkhitaryan which the player later went back on. And what Tuchel did wasn't merely being frustrated about players lost, it was an attempt to influence transfer policy via public pressure, so the club would abandon its long term strategy in favour of short term solutions that in the end all turned out mediocre and would have set the club back for years if it followed Tuchel's wishes. It was a bit like Mourinho's love with 30 year olds.

That link is a write up of excerpts from a book written by Pit Gottschalk, at the time chief editor at a local media group (WAZ), now chief editor at a sports broadcasting station. It is of course only one side to a story, but it's not exactly a random no-name reporter with an axe to grind.
Click to expand...

Ah, you're right re: the Zorc bit - I had my wires crossed and the incident in question was with Leonardo at PSG, not Zorc. My mistake!

I suppose I'm taking a more charitable view of Tuchel since I've always liked him - I was (very very) peripherally involved in / aware of a proposed PL takeover of Aston Villa a few years ago, and Tuchel had agreed to become the manager (this was during his sabbatical year post-Mainz). So personally I've always been a huge fan of his and that's definitely coloured my perception - frankly I've always desperately wanted him at Chelsea. I think it's harsh to say that the club would have been set back for years if they'd bought Toprak a year earlier, for instance - and at least for me I feel like Tuchel was justified in his frustration given how close they ran Bayern.

https://theathletic.com/2345622/202...ho-made-defenders-train-holding-tennis-balls/

That's from Rafa Honigstein, who I generally think is quite a good reporter personally but perhaps you feel differently. Either way, I appreciate you taking the time to educate me a bit on some of the backstory!
 
Already has their attack playing more coherently.
 
Hoof The Ball said:
Someone tried to compare their possession and passing to ours, but honestly, it's not the same. Even after two games you can already see how those players know what they're being asked to do and Tuchel really knows how to create 1v1 and 2v1 situations in dangerous areas. That's not something that happens by accident.
Click to expand...

What's most encouraging for me is that Tuchel has already taught our players how best to attack a low block - under Lampard all we were doing was sending in crosses endlessly. It's not rocket science or anything, but we now have our wingbacks staying extremely wide to find space laterally when none exists behind, and the ball switching from side to side has been far quicker to allow for 1v1 and 2v1 situations. CHO at RWB has worked brilliantly so far - it really underlines Tuchel's creativity.
 
I fear this appointment won't work to our advantage.

Then again, it might not make that much of a difference either.

What about Frank? Is the Celtic thing legit?
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
CHO at RWB has worked brilliantly so far - it really underlines Tuchel's creativity.
Click to expand...

The thought of CHO having to defend terrifies me. I think he's had to make one tackle in our past two games.

If he's up against Son on Thursday and plays well, Tuchel deserves a ton of credit.
 
duffer said:
The thought of CHO having to defend terrifies me. I think he's had to make one tackle in our past two games.

If he's up against Son on Thursday and plays well, Tuchel deserves a ton of credit.
Click to expand...

Mourinho will likely park the bus similar to Burnley and Wolves, especially with Kane out, but with better players they can pose a threat on the counter, so yes, it's definitely a sterner test than he's had so far.
 
duffer said:
The thought of CHO having to defend terrifies me. I think he's had to make one tackle in our past two games.

If he's up against Son on Thursday and plays well, Tuchel deserves a ton of credit.
Click to expand...

I think it's more likely to be Reece there on Thursday - CHO seems the ideal option against teams defending in very low blocks or if we're chasing a game. Positionally I think CHO has actually done pretty well even if he lacks technique and experience in the actual art of defending, but it shouldn't be overlooked that he made a brilliant last ditch challenge on Dendoncker to prevent Wolves from possibly snatching a win.
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
I think it's more likely to be Reece there on Thursday - CHO seems the ideal option against teams defending in very low blocks or if we're chasing a game. Positionally I think CHO has actually done pretty well even if he lacks technique and experience in the actual art of defending, but it shouldn't be overlooked that he made a brilliant last ditch challenge on Dendoncker to prevent Wolves from possibly snatching a win.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that Dendonker tackle was the only defending he's really had to do in the last couple of games and he was great at it!
 
duffer said:
The thought of CHO having to defend terrifies me. I think he's had to make one tackle in our past two games.

If he's up against Son on Thursday and plays well, Tuchel deserves a ton of credit.
Click to expand...

Why shouldn't he start James? I don't think Tuchel will start him three games in a row when it also would make sense to play him the way he did against mostly low defending teams and use another player (profile) when facing a different opponent.

The same for Werner, would be pointless to bring him against the Wolves (at least not until they'd lead by one or two goals) and I doubt a bit he will start against Spurs - although nobody really knows yet - since Mou will undoubtedly play hyper defensive and that's not a strong forte for Werner.
The only clear thing to me is that he wants to stabilize the defence hence no changes there and likely in the next 1-2 games baring injuries.

I won't comment on Tuchels sacking at Dortmund since that is a heavily blurry topic - which Tuchel never commented on while BVB boss Watzke can't shut up about it. But Mainz sporting director once corrected the statement (think it was made by Watzke/BVB) that it was difficult to work with Tuchel - in fact he praised him. In my opinion he is kind of of footy-nerd and the less people he has to deal with internally the better. So I think the situation at Chelsea is rather different than with Dortmund and Paris - the fact that you don't have ready-made superstars or super vocal director of sports or even president (quite the contrary) is very positive.

Just because a friend of mine who's born in Mainz told me once (and I wouldn't doubt it for a minute but it is no common knowledge or in some way possible to determine wether true or not) that TT is autistic. Would explain him a bit. To me I like him a lot. He's a real character but despite havin his off moments in some situations (as arguably everybody in this business has one forced in front of the mic every other minute) I truly believe that he indeed is a humble person in private. I for one am quite enthusiastic about his appointment - although the circumstances, especially with Frank being sacked right before him, could have been better.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cheimoon
WeePat said:
Mourinho will likely park the bus similar to Burnley and Wolves, especially with Kane out, but with better players they can pose a threat on the counter, so yes, it's definitely a sterner test than he's had so far.
Click to expand...
There are some games where Mou randomenly throws caution to the wind as a curve ball (case in point that 2-0 in 2017 where Herrera man marked Hazard) so we have to be wary about that possibility small as it is.

If he approaches his normal way then the fixtures are running nicely for Tuchel, he's had level 1 bus parking (Wolves and Burnley) to prepare him for level 2 (Spurs) which will in turn help prepare him for level 3 (Atletico).
 
Hoof The Ball said:
Someone tried to compare their possession and passing to ours, but honestly, it's not the same. Even after two games you can already see how those players know what they're being asked to do and Tuchel really knows how to create 1v1 and 2v1 situations in dangerous areas. That's not something that happens by accident.
Click to expand...

Their pressing and possession game certainly looked better than ours has ever done, in that first game against Wolves. Not at all impressed by what they created offensively though. But fair play, that was the first game, and you can't get everything right at once.

One more observation I forgot to add. I was struck by how compact they are (unsurprisingly, given the evident emphasis on pressing and possession). Very high 3-man back line. So high that it often seemed to be Azpilicueta and colleagues playing the through balls in the attack. But obviously also something that makes them a bit vulnerable on the counter?
 
Last edited:
justsomebloke said:
Their pressing and possession game certainly looked better than ours has ever done, in that first game against Wolves. Not at all impressed by what they created offensively though. But fair play, that was the first game, and you can't get everything right at once.

One more observation I forgot to add. I was struck by how compact they are (unsurprisingly, given the evident emphasis on pressing and possession). Very high 3-man back line. So high that it often seemed to be Azpilicueta and colleagues playing the through balls in the attack. But obviously also something that makes them a bit vulnerable on the counter?
Click to expand...

I think they found James on the diagonal switch IN the opposition's box on the right-hand side 1v1 on more than 6-7 occasions. Not an easy thing to do with Burnley's shit-show low-block. When's the last time AWB was even remotely close to that kind of of switch that far up and inside?
 
Interested to see how and if Tuchel adapts tactically to Mourinho. That is what he is generally known for, adaptation.

Would seem to me to play in to Spurs hands if we push high up against them. Can't use same system as we did at home last two games. Possible we see an entire different tactical setup to limit the space in behind that Spurs love to attack. Brighton gave Spurs the ball (57% possession) and seemed to work pretty well.
 
Hoof The Ball said:
I think they found James on the diagonal switch IN the opposition's box on the right-hand side 1v1 on more than 6-7 occasions. Not an easy thing to do with Burnley's shit-show low-block. When's the last time AWB was even remotely close to that kind of of switch that far up and inside?
Click to expand...

On Saturday against Arsenal actually, if I remember correctly. :) But only once, and your point is well taken.

That sound like they had a lot more success creating offensive pressure against Burnley than they did against Wolves.
 
At least in this game, his adjustment to the team setup spots on. The system is back to Conte approach I guess. It’s rather interesting why German (Bayern Munich also) values CHO, but not Conte, Sari, Lampard?
 
justsomebloke said:
Their pressing and possession game certainly looked better than ours has ever done, in that first game against Wolves. Not at all impressed by what they created offensively though. But fair play, that was the first game, and you can't get everything right at once.

One more observation I forgot to add. I was struck by how compact they are (unsurprisingly, given the evident emphasis on pressing and possession). Very high 3-man back line. So high that it often seemed to be Azpilicueta and colleagues playing the through balls in the attack. But obviously also something that makes them a bit vulnerable on the counter?
Click to expand...

There was an article yesterday about a quick comparison between the Wolves and the Burnley match. One of the key changes were that Azpi (and Alonso) didn't adventure nearly as far into foreign territory as they did against the Wolves. Ironically both of them brought the win once they actually did that. If Tuchel keeps the back three I'd think this rather conservative approach will be seen against Spurs. Although everybody knows how much Tuchel loves to change tactics during gametime to adapt to changed circumstances.
 
weetee said:
There was an article yesterday about a quick comparison between the Wolves and the Burnley match. One of the key changes were that Azpi (and Alonso) didn't adventure nearly as far into foreign territory as they did against the Wolves. Ironically both of them brought the win once they actually did that. If Tuchel keeps the back three I'd think this rather conservative approach will be seen against Spurs. Although everybody knows how much Tuchel loves to change tactics during gametime to adapt to changed circumstances.
Click to expand...
Think Tuchel is smart enough to identify Son's threat and make the changes accordingly.
 
weetee said:
Just because a friend of mine who's born in Mainz told me once (and I wouldn't doubt it for a minute but it is no common knowledge or in some way possible to determine wether true or not) that TT is autistic. Would explain him a bit.
Click to expand...

:eek:
 
city-puma said:
At least in this game, his adjustment to the team setup spots on. The system is back to Conte approach I guess. It’s rather interesting why German (Bayern Munich also) values CHO, but not Conte, Sari, Lampard?
Click to expand...

CHO was 15 when Conte took over and 17 when he got sacked. He still made his debut and played a few times under Conte.

Sarri was at Chelsea for 1 season and CHO played 24 times (as a 17/18 year old, that's unheard of at Chelsea at that time).

Lampard played CHO 33 times in his first season and 19 times this season (despite spending £200 million plus on new players and CHO missing a chunk due to a serious injury).

Not sure why you think Sarri or Lampard didn't value CHO, they played him a ton considering his age and the options available.
 
Last edited:
duffer said:
CHO was 15 when Conte took over and 17 when he got sacked. He still made his debut and played a few times under Conte.

Sarri was at Chelsea for 1 season and CHO played 24 times (as a 17/18 year old, that's unheard of at Chelsea at that time).

Lampard played CHO 33 times in his first season and 19 times this season (despite spending £200 million plus on new players and CHO missing a chunk due to a serious injury).

Not sure why you think Sarri or Lampard didn't value CHO, they played him a ton considering his age and the options available.
Click to expand...
Yeah that running narrative that Sarri was ruining Callum was one of the strangest things I've ever seen.
 
bond19821982 said:
Think Tuchel is smart enough to identify Son's threat and make the changes accordingly.
Click to expand...

Well, I'm sure he doesn't need my online ramblings to figue that out.

Nevertheless, since he is such a versatile manager it's always a nice guessing game in front of the matches - and I usually take some pleasure in doing so - although I'll keep that to myself with my max-three-posts-a-day regulation.
 
duffer said:
CHO was 15 when Conte took over and 17 when he got sacked. He still made his debut and played a few times under Conte.

Sarri was at Chelsea for 1 season and CHO played 24 times (as a 17/18 year old, that's unheard of at Chelsea at that time).

Lampard played CHO 33 times in his first season and 19 times this season (despite spending £200 million plus on new players and CHO missing a chunk due to a serious injury).

Not sure why you think Sarri or Lampard didn't value CHO, they played him a ton considering his age and the options available.
Click to expand...
That use of numbers is a bit misleading, honestly, when behind the '33 times' Lampard played CHO in 19/20 are loads of short sub appearances and 7 starts in the league with a total of 800 something minutes (and then a couple of starts against Ajax, and against lower division teams in the cup).
You write 'considering the otions available', so which were those? Willian played thrice the minutes of CHO, and even old man Pedro got more league starts than the kid.
And then this season there was no increase, before Tuchel came in CHO had 400 PL minutes and 3 starts.

Sure, it's not nothing for a youngster, but we are talking about a special player, and I'd dare to claim that not being able to utilize Hudson-Odois potential and quality more is one of the things that stand for Lampard's failure.
It's no wonder CHO continued to look for a way out.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.