Chelsea appoint Thomas Tuchel

TrustInJanuzaj said:
It's amazing that people fall into the trap of new manager bounce every singe time! Its way too early folks.
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Exactly, how can anyone judge him now after so little played. He can eventually take them to top4 but I do'n think he's all that good to make them challenge, so Chelsea shouldn't be our concern.
 
Poborsky's hair said:
Exactly, how can anyone judge him now after so little played. He can eventually take them to top4 but I do'n think he's all that good to make them challenge, so Chelsea shouldn't be our concern.
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Not this season but they have the team and now manager to challenge next year imo.
 
Way too early to judge. The really interesting match will be against us I reckon. Atletico will probably be a bore fest in the CL but it'll be interesting to see what he's learnt from his run ins with Ole in the past. They'll also have two days rest on us if we take the EL seriously which I think we will.
 
Honestly I expected more expansive football but so far it looks hard work but maybe we will see more.
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
Dunno about that, we were getting outplayed by Fulham until they had a man sent off and had to work hard for a jammy goal to win against 10.
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Yeah it's bizarre Lamps got 7 points out of 8 games but apparently would have instantly got 10 points in 4 if he remained.

Even if that somehow happened it wouldn't have been done with the (tactical) authority we've shown under Tuchel so far and would have been an Arsenal/late December and January esque paint over the cracks until the shit hit the fan once more.
 
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AshRK said:
Honestly I expected more expansive football but so far it looks hard work but maybe we will see more.
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We’re still looking disjointed in certain areas. And our final ball just isn’t there at times.

Barnsley (fa cup), Newcastle, Southampton, then Atletico, and finishing the month at home to United.
 
Poborsky's hair said:
Exactly, how can anyone judge him now after so little played. He can eventually take them to top4 but I do'n think he's all that good to make them challenge, so Chelsea shouldn't be our concern.
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He's not among the best managers on the planet but then again, neither is ours. So I don't see why Chelsea are a concern for us. You're assuming that we are in the same bracket at City/Pep (and from last season Liverpool/Klopp) and above teams and managers like Chelsea and Tuchel. We need to first prove we are actually on a different level before claiming to be.
 
Tyrion said:
Not this season but they have the team and now manager to challenge next year imo.
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I somehow have the feeling that next year it will be between City and Chelsea. If we want to be in the mix we need at least 3 players in the summer.
 
Theafonis said:
We’re still looking disjointed in certain areas. And our final ball just isn’t there at times.

Barnsley (fa cup), Newcastle, Southampton, then Atletico, and finishing the month at home to United.
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do you think Alonso starts against Newcastle?
 
Obviously no guarantee (just look at how we screwed up games against Sheffield and Arsenal), but he’s had a really easy run of fixtures to start. Next two against Newcastle and an awful Southampton as well, after the cup game at Barnsley. Atletico will be his first real test (yes yes).
 
RashyForPM said:
Obviously no guarantee (just look at how we screwed up games against Sheffield and Arsenal), but he’s had a really easy run of fixtures to start. Next two against Newcastle and an awful Southampton as well, after the cup game at Barnsley. Atletico will be his first real test (yes yes).
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I think context matters though. In the form we were in, those definitely weren't easy games. I certainly didn't have much faith in suddenly gaining 10 points from 12 after a run of 5 defeats in 8.
 
RashyForPM said:
Obviously no guarantee (just look at how we screwed up games against Sheffield and Arsenal), but he’s had a really easy run of fixtures to start. Next two against Newcastle and an awful Southampton as well, after the cup game at Barnsley. Atletico will be his first real test (yes yes).
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It reminds me of the timing of Jose sacking. Both him and Lampard were dead men walking but the timing was key in order to have a few easy games in a row to build confidence

WeePat said:
I think context matters though. In the form we were in, those definitely weren't easy games. I certainly didn't have much faith in suddenly gaining 10 points from 12 after a run of 5 defeats in 8.
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It's a matter of probability, considering your form, the perfect moment to pick up points with a new manager bounced was right now. Easier to play vs some certain teams than others even if there is no guarantee
 
I understand people thinking Lampard would have got the same pts as Tuchel and thats a fair point, but I just think Tuchel appears more screwed on tactically. I fancy Tuchel to pick up more wins in those scrappy games than Lampard did because of his better tactical knowledge, and his likelihood to know what to change, and when - during games. There is the new manager bounce to factor in, aswell, but it was said many a time, a manager with a bit more experience and know how would get much more out of this squad. And i think you'll see that over the coming weeks.

Under Tuchel top 4 seems a real possibility, under Frank it did, too. But I think the chances of us finishing top 4 under Lamps were slimmer.
 
WeePat said:
I think context matters though. In the form we were in, those definitely weren't easy games. I certainly didn't have much faith in suddenly gaining 10 points from 12 after a run of 5 defeats in 8.
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kouroux said:
It reminds me of the timing of Jose sacking. Both him and Lampard were dead men walking but the timing was key in order to have a few easy games in a row to build confidence.
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Yeah, especially since Lampard to Tuchel is a certain upgrade and factoring in the new manager bounce, I was sure he would start like a bullet train. Maybe he needs to get more cutting edge out of Chelsea, but good signs for Chelsea fans so far. Atletico first leg is a certain 0-0 or 1-0 Atletico, so the first real interesting game will be when they play against us. Ole and Tuchel are 50-50 to date.
 
kouroux said:
It reminds me of the timing of Jose sacking. Both him and Lampard were dead men walking but the timing was key in order to have a few easy games in a row to build confidence


It's a matter of probability, considering your form, the perfect moment to pick up points with a new manager bounced was right now. Easier to play vs some certain teams than others even if there is no guarantee
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RashyForPM said:
Yeah, especially since Lampard to Tuchel is a certain upgrade and factoring in the new manager bounce, I was sure he would start like a bullet train. Maybe he needs to get more cutting edge out of Chelsea, but good signs for Chelsea fans so far. Atletico first leg is a certain 0-0 or 1-0 Atletico, so the first real interesting game will be when they play against us. Ole and Tuchel are 50-50 to date.
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Yeah probably true. I certainly wouldn't have thought we'd definitely win those games in the form we were in pre-Tuchel but he's been given the chance to build up some momentum before the tougher fixtures come in March.
 
kouroux said:
It reminds me of the timing of Jose sacking. Both him and Lampard were dead men walking but the timing was key in order to have a few easy games in a row to build confidence


It's a matter of probability, considering your form, the perfect moment to pick up points with a new manager bounced was right now. Easier to play vs some certain teams than others even if there is no guarantee
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I wouldn't say we really had a new manager bounce in the true sense of a word. By that i mean a new manager bounce is players playing more freely/enjoying the novelty of the new situation and because of that many go up the levels, in those situations the manager doesn't have to do a great deal to get some good results for a month or two but there's always the realisation in the back of supporters minds it's unsustainable as much as the moment is enjoyable, the ultimate example of that is RDM, another obvious one would be Tim Sherwood.

With us now it's more the opposite, in terms of individual performance there isn't really any player that's gone from one extreme to the other bar maybe Kovacic, the big difference is the manager has found a way to knit the pieces together well. Feels similar to Hiddink 1.0 in that sense.
 
Whether or not Lampard would have got the same points from these games, Tuchel is the better and more experienced manager and Chelsea’s future is brighter for having the new man there.

This isn’t a new manager bounce, it’s a superior manager bounce.

It’s the same with us and Ole. No matter how well does, there is someone who could be doing better.
 
Judge Red said:
Whether or not Lampard would have got the same points from these games, Tuchel is the better and more experienced manager and Chelsea’s future is brighter for having the new man there.

This isn’t a new manager bounce, it’s a superior manager bounce.

It’s the same with us and Ole. No matter how well does, there is someone who could be doing better.
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That level of common sense won't be appreciated for long in these parts.
 
Judge Red said:
Whether or not Lampard would have got the same points from these games, Tuchel is the better and more experienced manager and Chelsea’s future is brighter for having the new man there.

This isn’t a new manager bounce, it’s a superior manager bounce.

It’s the same with us and Ole. No matter how well does, there is someone who could be doing better.
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I agree to a certain extent, but without having followed Lampard and Chelsea too much I think there are significant differences. Ole might not be the greatest when it comes to tactics, but his calm and never aggressive behaviour and man management has brought a nice level of stability. If we had switched him with e.g. Tuchel it could have led to some disruptions more so than to an immediately positive effect.
 
I think Tuchel and Chelsea could be a brillant match. The squad is perfect for him, very balanced and deep but still stacked with excellent players. This suits his methods much better than the PSG team. I believe they will join City and Liverpool as the third force eventually. Maybe not this season but next year, they could be actual competitors.

IMO, he is still very underrated. He did an excellent job at Dortmund and there's a reason Guardiola is so fond of him. His tenure at PSG probably qualified him for jobs like Chelsea since he now has a few titles in his CV but I guess it also hampered his reputation a bit in the eyes of the fans since everything but a CL win was basically a disappointment. I expect a few will be surprised how he'll have Chelsea playing. He went toe to toe with Guardiola with a squad which was levels below the current Dortmund team quality wise a few years back. Always overperforming with his teams.
 
Tuchel is very good as a coach, we all knew already. His weak point is the hot head, we know that too... All is fine until he clashes with Marina or Roman. The point with him is, anything at any time may really ignite the feud, his passive-aggressive stance, so it is like having tonnes of TNT tied to the bridge near a big fireworks factory.
 
Judge Red said:
Whether or not Lampard would have got the same points from these games, Tuchel is the better and more experienced manager and Chelsea’s future is brighter for having the new man there.

This isn’t a new manager bounce, it’s a superior manager bounce.

It’s the same with us and Ole. No matter how well does, there is someone who could be doing better.
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Yes, that’s it, Tuchel is the superior, more experienced and more nuanced manager, of course he makes his squad better. Pundits are starting their vulture circle over Solskjaer again, questioning his demeanour and the attitude he transmits to the team: passive, subdued, restrained. He is the new weakest link among the top clubs, at this stage.
 
Tuchel done ok so far, we're missing the final pass or making the wrong decisions continually in attack though. Team worked really hard yesterday. Mount is a case in point, never stopped running and good finish for the goal, just lacks that bit of real quality at times. Was a contrast watching Foden first.

Can't complain about the points return, needs to do some intense coaching with our attackers. Good news is we have Havertz, Pulisic and Ziyech not even involved yesterday. So options. Longer term we've got attacking players out on loan also. Think Tuchel will ultimately fix this problem.

Lampard got sacked because he lost half or even more of the dressing room imo. Was really hard to see him recovering from that and most likely things would have spiraled down.
 
Mb194dc said:
Tuchel done ok so far, we're missing the final pass or making the wrong decisions continually in attack though. Team worked really hard yesterday. Mount is a case in point, never stopped running and good finish for the goal, just lacks that bit of real quality at times. Was a contrast watching Foden first.

Can't complain about the points return, needs to do some intense coaching with our attackers. Good news is we have Havertz, Pulisic and Ziyech not even involved yesterday. So options. Longer term we've got attacking players out on loan also. Think Tuchel will ultimately fix this problem.

Lampard got sacked because he lost half or even more of the dressing room imo. Was really hard to see him recovering from that and most likely things would have spiraled down.
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That's interesting. Why do you think he lost the dressing room and who did he fall out with?
 
duffer said:
There was one article in the Athletic and a few other websites reported from that.

Which players do you think he "lost"?

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just not paying a sub to that website!
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In terms of those I'd have as definitely - Alonso, Tomori, Kepa

Those I'd have as possible - CHO, Jorginho, Kovacic, Rudiger

Unlikely but conceivable - Werner, Tammy, Ziyech, Emerson

This is speculation but seems reasonable, at least from my perspective if the Athletic are to be believed.
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
In terms of those I'd have as definitely - Alonso, Tomori, Kepa

Those I'd have as possible - CHO, Jorginho, Kovacic, Rudiger

Unlikely but conceivable - Werner, Tammy, Ziyech, Emerson

This is speculation but seems reasonable, at least from my perspective if the Athletic are to be believed.
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Are those the names the Athletic gave?

Also, if Kepa moaned to anyone about the manager, he should've been fired on the spot for sheer cheekiness!
 
duffer said:
Are those the names the Athletic gave?

Also, if Kepa moaned to anyone about the manager, he should've been fired on the spot for sheer cheekiness!
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No, the Athletic were a bit more vague and didn't get into too many specifics, but they do say explicitly that Lampard and the board clashed over Kepa and Rudiger. They also mention that Cech had to be involved in placating senior players' agents and (worryingly) that the relationship between Cech and Lampard has been damaged in the fallout from all this.

That list was mostly speculation on my part, apologies if that was unclear!
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
No, the Athletic were a bit more vague and didn't get into too many specifics, but they do say explicitly that Lampard and the board clashed over Kepa and Rudiger. They also mention that Cech had to be involved in placating senior players' agents and (worryingly) that the relationship between Cech and Lampard has been damaged in the fallout from all this.

That list was mostly speculation on my part, apologies if that was unclear!
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Lampard played Kepa far too much last season. If he was clashing with the board, I hope it was the board were pissed off with Frank for giving him so many chances, I know I was.
 
duffer said:
Lampard played Kepa far too much last season. If he was clashing with the board, I hope it was the board were pissed off with Frank for giving him so many chances, I know I was.
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According to the article apparently it's because the board (and Kepa) felt like Lampard didn't know what he was doing from a tactical perspective (in terms of how the defense was set up, how set plays were defended, etc.) and didn't properly encourage / nurture Kepa. I suspect it's more of a situation where the board understood Kepa was crap but were hoping to salvage something out of him in terms of possible sale price while Lampard was uninterested in trying.

For the record though I completely agree with you; Kepa is a dumpster fire.
 
duffer said:
There was one article in the Athletic and a few other websites reported from that.

Which players do you think he "lost"?

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just not paying a sub to that website!
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Honestly don't know exactly. Would make sense if it's some of those who didn't play though. No one in the dressing room going to talk publicly about it for sure. Maybe after they retire and write a book...

Pretty convinced club only pulled trigger because of the unrest in the squad plus rumoured Lampard had discord with Cech and Marina. Results were bad, but not that bad.
 
charlenefan said:
I'm pretty confident Lampard would have got the same points total out of those 3 games
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I'm not.. We had no direction at all in the end. The other teams would definitely scored a lot more against us.
 
Mb194dc said:
Pretty convinced club only pulled trigger because of the unrest in the squad plus rumoured Lampard had discord with Cech and Marina. Results were bad, but not that bad.
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Although I see that Tuchel isn't really rated all that much "over here" (in general, not this thread in particular) I do think he's rated quite well in the upper club management levels. He is an exceptionally good coach (imo) and who knows how long he would be available after his sacking at PSG? Funnily I believe he got sacked because the board in Paris was afraid to miss out on Poch. So I do think it was at minimum a combination of both, Frank not being a complete homerun and Tuchel being available. There truly aren't that many good and experienced coaches around actually. One reason why we see all those beginners at the top club level to begin with,
 
Tuchel's evaluation will be done between 20 February and 20 March.
Southampton-Chelsea
Atletico Madrid-Chelsea
Chelsea-Man Utd
Chelsea-Everton
Leeds-Chelsea
Chelsea-Atletico Madrid
Liverpool-Chelsea

I think he also knows that depending on what he shows over the course of that month, he will stay in office next year, or will be fired in the summer.

For now, he leaves me with many doubts.
Regarding the tactical scheme he has used, the players he has chosen, I think it will not be the most suitable for the players we have and I do not see how he will be able to satisfy the request of the bosses who asked for the rehabilitation of the big investments of the club.

The results have been nice to him so far.
We will see how he will arrive at the end of March.
 
Galeano said:
Tuchel's evaluation will be done between 20 February and 20 March.
Southampton-Chelsea
Atletico Madrid-Chelsea
Chelsea-Man Utd
Chelsea-Everton
Leeds-Chelsea
Chelsea-Atletico Madrid
Liverpool-Chelsea

I think he also knows that depending on what he shows over the course of that month, he will stay in office next year, or will be fired in the summer.

For now, he leaves me with many doubts.
Regarding the tactical scheme he has used, the players he has chosen, I think it will not be the most suitable for the players we have and I do not see how he will be able to satisfy the request of the bosses who asked for the rehabilitation of the big investments of the club.

The results have been nice to him so far.
We will see how he will arrive at the end of March.
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I'd be absolutely floored if they fired him in the summer. His contract is for 1.5 years with an extra year as an option that can be triggered by either party; for me there's no way he doesn't see out at least next season, unless it's similarly calamitous to this year under Lampard.
 
Judge Red said:
Whether or not Lampard would have got the same points from these games, Tuchel is the better and more experienced manager and Chelsea’s future is brighter for having the new man there.

This isn’t a new manager bounce, it’s a superior manager bounce.

It’s the same with us and Ole. No matter how well does, there is someone who could be doing better.
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Like proven, experienced managers like LVG and Jose?
 
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