Chelsea under Conte | Let's sign the next Hazard, literally.


Antonio Conte is quite annoyed by the transfer market difficulties of Chelsea after the signing of Lukaku to United and stand by on Sandro!
 
Zoo said:

Antonio Conte is quite annoyed by the transfer market difficulties of Chelsea after the signing of Lukaku to United and stand by on Sandro!
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Do you live on twitter? I was just about to post this :p
 
I don't understand why Chelsea don't trust the judgement of the manager. He wanted Lukaku and I can't think of a single reason why they wouldn't have set about getting him asap. Instead of waiting until he's effectively signed for someone else and then put in a too-little-too-late bid to effectively save face.

Speaks of a club for whom the manager requesting a player isn't enough to convince the hierarchy that they should be signed.
 
Oscie said:
I don't understand why Chelsea don't trust the judgement of the manager. He wanted Lukaku and I can't think of a single reason why they wouldn't have set about getting him asap. Instead of waiting until he's effectively signed for someone else and then put in a too-little-too-late bid to effectively save face.

Speaks of a club for whom the manager requesting a player isn't enough to convince the hierarchy that they should be signed.
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I'd be willing to bet rather a vast amount of money that there isn't a single top club in the world now where the manager saying they want a player is enough to convince everyone. Football is way beyond that point. Clubs are using intensive scouting, stats analysis and goodness knows what else to analyse which players will fit their teams. One guy going 'I think x player would be great, go buy him' just isn't how it works now.
 
Kentonio said:
I'd be willing to bet rather a vast amount of money that there isn't a single top club in the world now where the manager saying they want a player is enough to convince everyone. Football is way beyond that point. Clubs are using intensive scouting, stats analysis and goodness knows what else to analyse which players will fit their teams. One guy going 'I think x player would be great, go buy him' just isn't how it works now.
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Maybe not but there's a difference between a manager having to put his case to the chairman/owners/board and what seems to exist at Chelsea whereby there's a competing vision as to who the club should sign and where it seems that throughout various managers it's a battle between who the manager/coaching staff want and who the owner and his circle think the club should be signing.

I don't imagine Mourinho asks for a player and Woodward pulls out a portfolio and says "Actually I was thinking along the lines of..."
 
Oscie said:
Maybe not but there's a difference between a manager having to put his case to the chairman/owners/board and what seems to exist at Chelsea whereby there's a competing vision as to who the club should sign and where it seems that throughout various managers it's a battle between who the manager/coaching staff want and who the owner and his circle think the club should be signing.

I don't imagine Mourinho asks for a player and Woodward pulls out a portfolio and says "Actually I was thinking along the lines of..."
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Bear in mind a lot of what you hear about the inner workings of Chelsea is nothing more than newspaper gossip and guesswork. The way the process is supposed to work is that Emenalo finds potential signings with input from the head coach, and then those names are put forward to Marina Granovskaia and the board to approve and then try and sign.

If a club wants more money than we think a player is worth, we're not going to sign them. If another club beats us to a signing by being willing to pay an agent fee we won't accept or a higher price we don't want to match, then we won't follow them just because the manager wanted that player. The plan is for Chelsea to be financially well run and self sufficient, I have no issues with the club following those principles.
 
The failure to land Lukaku seems to be a case of trying to land him cheaper than what Everton were willing to accept because they believed they were the only club in the running and Lukaku quite obviously wanted out. Nothing more to it imo.
 
Kentonio said:
Bear in mind a lot of what you hear about the inner workings of Chelsea is nothing more than newspaper gossip and guesswork. The way the process is supposed to work is that Emenalo finds potential signings with input from the head coach, and then those names are put forward to Marina Granovskaia and the board to approve and then try and sign.

If a club wants more money than we think a player is worth, we're not going to sign them. If another club beats us to a signing by being willing to pay an agent fee we won't accept or a higher price we don't want to match, then we won't follow them just because the manager wanted that player. The plan is for Chelsea to be financially well run and self sufficient, I have no issues with the club following those principles.
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The entire "we won't pay Raiola the fees he wants" is a clear facing saving exercise from your club. There's no way you spent this long negotiating a deal with Everton without knowing what Lukaku and Raiola wanted once a deal was agreed, no club is that naive.
 
Varun said:
The entire "we won't pay Raiola the fees he wants" is a clear facing saving exercise from your club. There's no way you spent this long negotiating a deal with Everton without knowing what Lukaku and Raiola wanted once a deal was agreed, no club is that naive.
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We have no idea how long the clubs were negotiating, if at all. I believe clubs also have to agree a transfer fee before any discussion about personal terms and agent fees and the rest is discussed, otherwise it would be considered tapping up under the rules wouldn't it? Raiola has a bad reputation for exorbitant agent fees however, so its perfectly possible that was the sticking point, much like you lot refusing to meet the agent fees for Hazard.
 
Kentonio said:
We have no idea how long the clubs were negotiating, if at all. I believe clubs also have to agree a transfer fee before any discussion about personal terms and agent fees and the rest is discussed, otherwise it would be considered tapping up under the rules wouldn't it? Raiola has a bad reputation for exorbitant agent fees however, so its perfectly possible that was the sticking point, much like you lot refusing to meet the agent fees for Hazard.
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Technically yes but in reality no major transfer operates like that anymore. Clubs have a very good idea of whether a player is open to joining and what his personal demands will be before haggling with his club.

The last minute bid to match United was just to placate Conte imo, though. The transfer was already far too along by then, it was never going to work, agent fees or not.
 
Kentonio said:
We have no idea how long the clubs were negotiating, if at all. I believe clubs also have to agree a transfer fee before any discussion about personal terms and agent fees and the rest is discussed, otherwise it would be considered tapping up under the rules wouldn't it? Raiola has a bad reputation for exorbitant agent fees however, so its perfectly possible that was the sticking point, much like you lot refusing to meet the agent fees for Hazard.
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Cmon now, you think all the Chelsea links were false? No point in discussing this in that case. Re the part in bold, that's the party line but that's not how it works. No club is daft enough to enter prolonged negotiations without knowing whether the player is interested and his demands in line with what they're fine with.
 
Varun said:
Cmon now, you think all the Chelsea links were false? No point in discussing this in that case. Re the part in bold, that's the party line but that's not how it works. No club is daft enough to enter prolonged negotiations without knowing whether the player is interested and his demands in line with what they're fine with.
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I don't think they were false personally. I think there were internal obstacles to overcome at Chelsea which probably slowed things down (the long running rumours of dissent over re-signing him) and it looked like Utd were after Morata so there probably didn't seem like a desperate rush. Once Lukaku's agent had a team willing to pay what he wanted though, then us not being willing to would no longer have been a problem for him. I think if you hadn't come in when you did, then we'd have had the leverage to work those fees down, as the player wanted out badly.

I'm curious about the timing of the fees question now though, as I could be totally wrong. Going to ask a guy who knows about that stuff and see if he'll answer. Sometime he will, sometimes he won't.
 
Wow the Lukaku stress made Conte go really bald again really fast
 
B&Wandmore said:
if chelsea looses lukaku to MU and gets Morata that is a blessing in disguise and a strike of luck for them
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I've heard this a few times on the caf..
Lukaku was not cheaper than Morata..
So clearly, Lukaku was the first choice for both Chelsea and us.. But the experts on the caf are convinced Morata is better..
 
Kentonio said:
I'm curious about the timing of the fees question now though, as I could be totally wrong. Going to ask a guy who knows about that stuff and see if he'll answer. Sometime he will, sometimes he won't.
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@Varun The guy was kind enough to come back with an answer. He said it didn't really work the way I was asking the question, but described the process a little.

The process should be along the lines of: Clubs will typically informally ask an agent (a) if the player is going to be available, and (b) would the player consider a move to the club. There may be some broad discussion on the sort of deal that would be offered but no more than that. If the answer is yes, it is then necessary for the club to approach the player's club to ask if they would be willing to sell and if they would grant permission to speak to a player's agent formally about a transfer and possibly even the player about actually making a move. This will typically involve either broadly (through an offer) or actually agreeing a fee and responsibility for any significant costs (agents fees etc.). Once this has happened the club will be able to speak to the player's agent and perhaps the player himself to look at the package that will be involved. Many players are looked at and discussed at a high-level with agents and clubs; a subset of those have an offer placed; a subset of those involve discussions with the player's club; a subset of those involve discussions over terms, and; a subset of those go ahead.

Agents will often try and get more specific details of wages and other financials before they should - but most clubs are happy to follow this process. Players will often talk to other players about moves but, whilst wrong, is tolerated as it would be impossible to manage.
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Raw said:
Seems like Rudiger is confirmed. Leaked pic of him signing the contract:

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He will cost them goals as he has mistakes in him and has had since his VfB days. Strong and quick but him and Luiz could be a really shaky pairing.
 
arthurka said:
He will cost them goals as he has mistakes in him and has had since his VfB days. Strong and quick but him and Luiz could be a really shaky pairing.
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Perhaps under Conte he becomes a better CB.
 
Kentonio said:
@Varun The guy was kind enough to come back with an answer. He said it didn't really work the way I was asking the question, but described the process a little.
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I Read an article on sky a while back that confirms this. It's a good read. Here's the part talking about the contact with the agent even before an offer come in:

The enquiry

Scouts utilised, player targeted. What next? More digging. "We phone the manager and ask, we get a background on him, we phone an agent and find out what his personality is like," says Robinson.

The agent and the player will be aware of a club's interest long before an offer goes in; rarely in modern football does a bid surprise player and public in equal measure.

World in Motion agent James Lippett says: "The buying club will always want to know they have a chance of doing the deal, otherwise they will look stupid.

"The conversation with the agent usually goes: 1) What is the player going to cost? 2) How long is left on their contract? 3) What does the player want to earn? 4) What does he currently earn? and 5) What is their family and personal situation?"
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Here's the link to the article: http://www.skysports.com/football/n...ansfer-works-from-the-scouting-to-the-signing

Edit: I'll create a new thread for this, I think it's a good read for the Muppets of this forum.

Edit 2: can't create a new thread, I don't have the privileges to do that. This will do.
 
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Harry190 said:
He was pretty good at the Confed cup. Has all the physical tools.
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Been watching him since he broke through at VfB and believe me when I tell you he is a hit and miss. He sometimes makes the difficult look easy but he also manages to feck up the Un feck upable..
 
Kentonio said:
We have no idea how long the clubs were negotiating, if at all. I believe clubs also have to agree a transfer fee before any discussion about personal terms and agent fees and the rest is discussed, otherwise it would be considered tapping up under the rules wouldn't it? Raiola has a bad reputation for exorbitant agent fees however, so its perfectly possible that was the sticking point, much like you lot refusing to meet the agent fees for Hazard.
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Not really. A lot of times if the seller knows that the offer is likely to be in the ballpark then they allow the player to discuss personal terms in parallel.

And if what you say about Chelsea refusing to pay Raiola's extra commission is true then its a stupid policy. United lost out on Hazard due to this same reason (SAF did not want to pay the agent an extra £3.2m on top of the £32m fee) and look where things have ended up.
 
Clubs having to pay agent fees has always been stupid for me. If a player wants a representative, he should pay to have one - there should be no direct transfer of cash from clubs to agents (obviously this will increase player wages, but that's okay for me as it puts the ball back into the players camp).
 
Kentonio said:
I'd be willing to bet rather a vast amount of money that there isn't a single top club in the world now where the manager saying they want a player is enough to convince everyone. Football is way beyond that point. Clubs are using intensive scouting, stats analysis and goodness knows what else to analyse which players will fit their teams. One guy going 'I think x player would be great, go buy him' just isn't how it works now.
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Some scouting must have went into Baba rahman.
 
prateik said:
I've heard this a few times on the caf..
Lukaku was not cheaper than Morata..
So clearly, Lukaku was the first choice for both Chelsea and us.. But the experts on the caf are convinced Morata is better..
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not sure about the experts, I am certainly not but know well Morata and he is a great player who has the great virtue of nailing big matches. He is incredibly fast and ideal for teams that play on counters, a little bit less with weaker teams that defend well, but considering the average level of defensive play in EPL I would be surprised if he scored less than 20 goals next season. From what I understand prices are similar and actually Lukaku costed more because of Raiola usual commissions.
I confess to be biased because I do not like Lukaku too much, sorry, especially at this ridiculous evaluation, so maybe I am underestimating him. We will see
 
To be fair, he pretty much won the league with a Mourinho squad (not taking away his achievement). Lets see how good he is at rebuilding though and how good Chelsea are at getting the players he wants. Doesnt every manager fall out with Abramovich over players?
 
Mr H said:
I Read an article on sky a while back that confirms this. It's a good read. Here's the part talking about the contact with the agent even before an offer come in:

Here's the link to the article: http://www.skysports.com/football/n...ansfer-works-from-the-scouting-to-the-signing

Edit: I'll create a new thread for this, I think it's a good read for the Muppets of this forum.

Edit 2: can't create a new thread, I don't have the privileges to do that. This will do.
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Cheers for that! I'll start the thread for you.
 
Peanut Butter said:
Still sulking I reckon.
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Nah, he's at peace with himself and the world.

antonio-conte-falky.jpg
 
Skills said:
Clubs having to pay agent fees has always been stupid for me. If a player wants a representative, he should pay to have one - there should be no direct transfer of cash from clubs to agents (obviously this will increase player wages, but that's okay for me as it puts the ball back into the players camp).
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It comes to the same amount.

Just the matter of how you write it, if agent fee comes from the player's pocket they'll just mark up the difference
 
Oscie said:
I don't understand why Chelsea don't trust the judgement of the manager. He wanted Lukaku and I can't think of a single reason why they wouldn't have set about getting him asap. Instead of waiting until he's effectively signed for someone else and then put in a too-little-too-late bid to effectively save face.

Speaks of a club for whom the manager requesting a player isn't enough to convince the hierarchy that they should be signed.
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Tbf i dont think kenyon or anyone at Chelsea thinks lukaku isn't what conte needs, it's just the matter of the price isn't right. Can't blame them, 90m for a player of lukaku level isn't everyone's cup of tea.
 
Sky1981 said:
Tbf i dont think kenyon or anyone at Chelsea thinks lukaku isn't what conte needs, it's just the matter of the price isn't right. Can't blame them, 90m for a player of lukaku level isn't everyone's cup of tea.
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I don't get this and if I was Conte, I'd be furious. On hiring him, they've obviously promised to back him in the transfer market and be in for the players he wants. So far, they've failed him miserably and most likely for the sake of a few million in agents fees. I mean, all along everyone knew Lukaku was going to be minimum of 60/70 mill.
 
The Don said:
I don't get this and if I was Conte, I'd be furious. On hiring him, they've obviously promised to back him in the transfer market and be in for the players he wants. So far, they've failed him miserably and most likely for the sake of a few million in agents fees. I mean, all along everyone knew Lukaku was going to be minimum of 60/70 mill.
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It's still a steep number for a player like lukaku (nothing personal), if it's 70m for griezman chelsea would probably pay it.

Besides different situation, they have costa while we have no proper striker at all.
 
Sky1981 said:
It's still a steep number for a player like lukaku (nothing personal), if it's 70m for griezman chelsea would probably pay it.

Besides different situation, they have costa while we have no proper striker at all.
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Oh I agree. Overpriced but so is pretty much every other transfer that has or will happen this season. That's the market now. Chelsea know this. They probably also know there is no way back for Costa, considering his manager basically fired him by text. They have the money, they should have backed the manager.

I'm glad they didn't. I've wanted Lukaku since last summer and I'm delighted he's coming here but I think Chelsea let their manager down.

Now watch Roman go out and buy Neymar. :wenger:
 
The Don said:
Oh I agree. Overpriced but so is pretty much every other transfer that has or will happen this season. That's the market now. Chelsea know this. They probably also know there is no way back for Costa, considering his manager basically fired him by text. They have the money, they should have backed the manager.

I'm glad they didn't. I've wanted Lukaku since last summer and I'm delighted he's coming here but I think Chelsea let their manager down.

Now watch Roman go out and buy Neymar. :wenger:
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The transfer window had not ended mate.... far from it. I wouldnt play devils advocate yet
 
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