Chelsea under Conte | Let's sign the next Hazard, literally.

Mourinho made no players play above their weight. None.
I remember the time when Villas-Boas had joined Chelsea. He wanted to play differently, things such as a 'high defensive line' were actually pretty bad for John Terry. The trend continued and Rafa Benitez thought it was game over for Terry. Terry was desperate and knocked on his door, but Benitez cut him off. That was a big mistake because under the right man-management he came back even stronger.

Jose Mourinho about John Terry:
'A couple of injuries, one or two managers that stopped believing in him at the club, bringing in other defenders that they thought would be John's replacement. And especially in the season before I came, which was Rafael Benitez's season, i thought 'this guy's finished' because he's not playing finals, he's not playing in big matches. I thought he was in trouble....and last season was phenomenal. Phenomenal. I think the best season.'

Mourinho deserves credit for getting Terry back to his best. Cahill was also immense alongside Terry during 2 seasons, add Ivanovic to that list. That didn't last too long but Oscar had his best spell under Mourinho (imo), he comfortably kept Mata and De Bruyne away from the starting line-up. The same applies to Courtois, Cech couldn't get anywhere near the team. Willian was a slow starter, but what he did this season under Mourinho was phenomenal. He was on a one man mission to keep the Portuguese in the job, you can't take these free-kicks any better. It's up for debate whether Hazard would have reached those heights without Mourinho, but that's for another day.

Of course it's not all light and bright. Because of multiple reasons (some of them are still unknown) everything fall to shit and got out of control. The key players regressed big time and this fells under the responsibility of the coach.

But that's not the point concerning this debate. You stated that Mourinho didn't make one player 'play above their weight' and because of the aforementioned given examples i disagree with you. Maybe it was only short-term, but it did happen, at least in my point of view. :)
 
Courtois: Along with De Gea, one of the two most promising young keepers in the world. Had a shitty season last year, and his distribution isn't as good as it should be (yet). Suppoedly had some ructions with our GK coach about training methods, but we'll see what happens this year. Absolutely irreplaceable.

Begovic: Would be nice to keep, he's a good backup. Will probably leave though.

Azpilecueta: People criticize him for not attacking enough, but a) he's a right back playing at LB, and b) he covers JT's side, which prevents him pushing up too much. He is actually very decent when he does go up, and as we transition to a new defense I'd expect to see more of it.

Zouma: Was just starting to show what an absolutely class player he was when the ACL injury happened. Holding our breath a bit on this one.

JT: Irreplaceable this year. He probably won't play that much this season, but having someone in the dressing room with his passion and influence is something you can't really buy.

Cahill: I've never been a big fan. He can actually be a damn good defender but he has a horrible habit of letting attackers get away from him and then throwing in dramatic last ditch tackles to stop them. When it works he looks great, but it doesn't always work. Would keep unless we can bring in a top drawer CB. Would probably keep even then for one more season until Christensen returns next year.

Rahman: Showed a few signs of being good, and some signs of being horrible. Very young, would definitely keep.

Miazga: I have no idea why we bought him, and equally no idea whether we should keep him. Matt mystifies me.

Ivanovich: I'm done with him quite frankly. Filipe Luis never managed to force his way into the squad because Dave and Brana were just incredible that year, but last season was one of the most wretched displays I've seen from a Chelsea full back. In honesty I put most of the blame on Mourinho for letting it go on for as long as he did, by the time he started being replaced in the starting 11 his confidence was totally destroyed. May well play CB this year, but I don't want to see him at RB any more. He was personally responsible for a LOT of goals. Would sell immediately, while thanking him for the many happy memories.

Matic: Managed to go from perhaps the best DM in the world to a complete muppet over the space of a summer. I'm still unsure how this happened, but he does tend to look a bit gormless so I'm hoping it was just some confidence thing. Matic on form is absolutely impossible to stop, as he showed by making Yaya Toure look absolutely pedestrian a few years ago when he was otherwise dominating everyone. He has this strange ability to just start striding through midfield with the ball stuck to his feet that is quite mesmerizing, although it happens quite rarely. Seriously praying he comes good this year.

Mikel: He scores when he wants, lol. Had a nice resurgence last year, but in all honesty should have been sold several seasons ago. I still suspect Jose made a horrible mistake turning him into a DM.

Fabregas: Creates so much its ridiculous really. Had the same bad spell as everyone else in the team not called Willian, but was coming good again towards the end. Needs protecting of course, but having a player who can casually flick a ball to basically anywhere on the pitch he wants is something pretty special. 100% keep.

Oscar: People hate on him a lot, and I've grumbled about him plenty, but he's an incredibly talented guy. There was a time last season where he had some injuries but whenever he came on things just clicked together. Needs a great season this year though to silence his critics. Would not sell him though.

Willian: Ah sweet Willian, when we were trying our hardest to look like the most disorganized and craven bunch of pub team players in England, you stepped up and fought for the team, even when you were the only one trying. One of the most underappreciated and misunderstood players in England. Yes, he works very hard, no this doesn't make him a 'workhorse'. He's an incredibly talented AM with superb ball control, excellent creativity and imagination and as we've just discovered he takes a mean free kick too. His one weakness is not scoring regularly from open play, if he did then we wouldn't ever be having these discussions about him. Would absolutely keep and also probably build a small statue of him at the new stadium with a plaque reading 'The Lone Hero of 15/16'.

Hazard: Oh Eden, why did you seemingly forget how to play football when we needed you the most? Ah well, he came back to be mean to both Spurs and Liverpool so all is forgiven. The most talented player Chelsea have ever had on their books, anyone who wants to sell him should be taken out into a field and beaten to death with hardcopies of The Dummies Guide To Football.

Pedro: Strange one. His first game was amazing, then he became largely shit, but in fairness this went hand in hand with the rest of the team doing the same. I actually like rat-face, I think a team with an in-form Hazard, Willian and Pedro running at them are in for some very dark times indeed. Would definitely keep.

Loftus-Cheek: Could be the next Pogba, or could be another Nathaniel Chalobah. Needs more pitch time, and ideally might want to think about not looking quite so laidback all the time, as it can easily be mistaken for laziness. Definite keep.

Kenedy: Seriously excited about this one and was left absolutely astonished, mystified and horrified by Jose's apparent decision to try and turn him into a left full back. I hope Conte never gets any idea quite that stupid into his head. Kenedy is brilliant, which his route straight past the loan roundabout and into the first team illustrated very clearly. His dribbling is superb and he's deadly running at defenders. Could be a future great for us, would not sell under any circumstances.

Costa: Turned into a whiny little bitch for part of last year, but hopefully back to his normal bastardly best now. If he played for you you'd love him. Obvious keep. ;)

Remy: Better than people give him credit for but about as lucky as a winner of free tickets to a Michael Barrymore pool party. Every time Costa got injured you could guarantee Remy would immediately pick up a knock the next week. Time to go.

Traore: A very, very good attacker, and another kid I wouldn't part with for anything. Still rough like all strikers his age, but has absolute bucket loads of talent and potential. Would be deeply surprised if he isn't a £50m rated player within a couple of seasons.

Not going to go into the rest of the promising youth players because there's too many. As always the question remains whether the manager will give them a route into the team. I have absolutely no doubts that we have the single best youth roster of any team in England and quite possibly Europe (which also means the world of course). Solanke is the one on everyones lips at the moment as there's rumblings about him leaving, but fingers crossed this will blow over.

In summary, the pieces are in place for a very, very bright future, despite the hysteria caused by last years collapse. We need one or two new midfielders to hopefully replace Mikel and cover for Matic in case his decline is permanent. Probably need a new RB, and a new top quality CB would be very welcome especially if Zouma's injury causes any long term problems. Could do with a new striker to support and challenge Costa while Traore develops. If the summer ended with us only having brought in Nainggolan or a similar replacement, I wouldn't be too worried, but would expect a fairly active summer as Conte shaped the team how he wants it.
 
But that's not the point concerning this debate. You stated that Mourinho didn't make one player 'play above their weight' and because of the aforementioned given examples i disagree with you. Maybe it was only short-term, but it did happen, at least in my point of view. :)

Or perhaps he just got them to play at their proper natural level.
 
I remember the time when Villas-Boas had joined Chelsea. He wanted to play differently, things such as a 'high defensive line' were actually pretty bad for John Terry. The trend continued and Rafa Benitez thought it was game over for Terry. Terry was desperate and knocked on his door, but Benitez cut him off. That was a big mistake because under the right man-management he came back even stronger.

Jose Mourinho about John Terry:


Mourinho deserves credit for getting Terry back to his best. Cahill was also immense alongside Terry during 2 seasons, add Ivanovic to that list. That didn't last too long but Oscar had his best spell under Mourinho (imo), he comfortably kept Mata and De Bruyne away from the starting line-up. The same applies to Courtois, Cech couldn't get anywhere near the team. Willian was a slow starter, but what he did this season under Mourinho was phenomenal. He was on a one man mission to keep the Portuguese in the job, you can't take these free-kicks any better. It's up for debate whether Hazard would have reached those heights without Mourinho, but that's for another day.

Of course it's not all light and bright. Because of multiple reasons (some of them are still unknown) everything fall to shit and got out of control. The key players regressed big time and this fells under the responsibility of the coach.

But that's not the point concerning this debate. You stated that Mourinho didn't make one player 'play above their weight' and because of the aforementioned given examples i disagree with you. Maybe it was only short-term, but it did happen, at least in my point of view. :)
Cahill and Terry were good when we played a low block and had two holding players in front of them. That was to the detriment of the teams attack though and when we played more offensively they were very vulnerable.

Ivanovic has been good before Mourinho and improved slightly with him. Nothing surprising and in fact he was clearly in decline in that second season.

Courtois was better when he played for Atletico. He was quite shaky midway through last season. Willian has always been good and this season was just a natural step up from hus 0erformance levels last season. I do think he is the only player that Mourinho majorly improved though but he didn't exactly keep Mourinho in charge because we were 17th in the table with him playing his best football.

Oscar was great for 6 months in what was considered a natural progression from his first season. Then he went to shit and has been shit ever since.

Hazard has not exceeded any expectations. Heach has followed the same curve of development he would've reached under any manager. He was clearly going to he world class and hasnot improved much from season to season (When you look at it objectively).

None of these players played above what was expected of them bar Terry and maybe Willian this season. The former was due to tactics which were detrimental to the team and the latter was when the team was at its worst, making him look better. The rest performed to what was expected of then from Chelsea fans.
 
I think they're in safe hands. Astute organization from Italy.
 
Hell of a coach, we should've known that ever since he won the Scudetto with Matri as the starting striker.
 
I think they're in safe hands. Astute organization from Italy.
What? Belgium should've won comfortably.
Today was not a game that Conte managed well. They won at the end, because the Belgians were too polite to score a goal.

Also mind the language barrier.
 
What? Belgium should've won comfortably.
Today was not a game that Conte managed well. They won at the end, because the Belgians were too polite to score a goal.

Also mind the language barrier.
Belgium were shit. Can't take too much from this.
 
What? Belgium should've won comfortably.
Today was not a game that Conte managed well. They won at the end, because the Belgians were too polite to score a goal.

Also mind the language barrier.

Hardly, Italians were absolutely fantastic tactically, incredibly well drilled with every player knowing their role.
 
That Italy team had some bang average players. Their entire game plan was around defensive organisation and punishing mistakes made by belgium.

Shades of Mourinho and Simeone in there. If Chelsea can back him with the right signings, it will be game on.
 
That Italy team had some bang average players. Their entire game plan was around defensive organisation and punishing mistakes made by belgium.

Shades of Mourinho and Simeone in there. If Chelsea can back him with the right signings, it will be game on.
Thought they showed a lot of organisation going forwards too. Very purposeful with their attacks. The first goal especially is something Conte used a lot at Juventus.
 
I told you in my first post here about him, my brother is a fan of him(Juventus) and he told me hes the best motivator, beast.
 
Cahill and Terry were good when we played a low block and had two holding players in front of them. That was to the detriment of the teams attack though and when we played more offensively they were very vulnerable.

Ivanovic has been good before Mourinho and improved slightly with him. Nothing surprising and in fact he was clearly in decline in that second season.

Courtois was better when he played for Atletico. He was quite shaky midway through last season. Willian has always been good and this season was just a natural step up from hus 0erformance levels last season. I do think he is the only player that Mourinho majorly improved though but he didn't exactly keep Mourinho in charge because we were 17th in the table with him playing his best football.

Oscar was great for 6 months in what was considered a natural progression from his first season. Then he went to shit and has been shit ever since.

Hazard has not exceeded any expectations. Heach has followed the same curve of development he would've reached under any manager. He was clearly going to he world class and hasnot improved much from season to season (When you look at it objectively).

None of these players played above what was expected of them bar Terry and maybe Willian this season. The former was due to tactics which were detrimental to the team and the latter was when the team was at its worst, making him look better. The rest performed to what was expected of then from Chelsea fans.

Ivanovic, Cahill, Terry, Matic, Oscar and Azpilicuta had their best season in 14/15 under Jose. You can try as much as you can to prove it wrong, but you simply can't. The stats are freely available for everyone. I am not saying that all of them payed their best football all season. But they had their best moments in that season. For example, Oscar played the best of his football till December 14. His creativity, work ethics, etc. were on another level.

It doesn't matter whether your team played low block, middle block, high block or a super block under Jose, that not the point here. The point we are arguing now is not about the tactics your team played under Jose, but it is about how did the players performed. Not just the players i mentioned above, almost every players in your 14/15 squad were performing world class. Terry is another prime example for the Jose impact. He was hardly playing and many thought that he is finished. But then came Jose and Terry had the best season of his career. Whether you like it or not, that's Jose impact. And even if fans like you who are disrespectful to a club legend, won't acknowledge it, the players like Terry will always be grateful to him.
 
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Ivanovic, Cahill, Terry, Matic, Oscar and Azpilicuta had their best season in 14/15 under Jose. You can try as much as you can to prove it wrong, but you simply can't. The stats are freely available for everyone. I am not saying that all of them payed their best football all season. But they had their best moments in that season. For example, Oscar played the best of his football till December 14. His creativity, work ethics, etc. were on another level.

It doesn't matter whether your team played low block, middle block, high block or a super block under Jose, that not the point here. The point we are arguing now is not about the tactics your team played under Jose, but it is about how did the players performed. Not just the players i mentioned above, almost every players in your 14/15 squad were performing world class. Terry is another prime example for the Jose impact. He was hardly playing and many thought that he is finished. But then came Jose and Terry had the best season of his career. Whether you like it or not, that's Jose impact. And even if fans like you who are disrespectful to a club legend, won't acknowledge it, the players like Terry will always be grateful to him.
Stop making things up.

Oscar was poor in 14/15. His best form was the first half of the 13/14 season but then Mata was sold and he lost all of his form. Terry had much better seasons then 14/15 which was actually fairly average for him. 04/05 to 09/10 were better. As was the season before where we played more defensively and with more defensive players to help him out.

Azpiliqueta did have his best season in 14/15 as he also did in 13/14. Againo, a bit of that was due to the defensive tactics we played which covered for his deficiencies. He also started performing very well the season before Mourinho joined so whether he was elevated to another level by Mourinho is questionable. 8vanovic was quite poor in that season actually. Defensively he was showing a lot of vulnerability and we leaked a lot of goals from that side. Manylon Chelsea fans wanted Azpi to take his place during the season.

Of course tactics matter. Shit players can be made to look better in a certain tactical set up. The fact that no Chelsea player vastly improved under Mourinho's coaching is very telling. Just because Mourinho played negative defensive football to make his defensive players look better does not mean he improved them. Just means he indulged them at the detriment of the team.

To chronicle Mourinho'sold time at Chelsea:

.Joins summer and signs Willian and Schurrle.

.Starts by trying to implement a high defensive line with high pressing and lots of fast attacking ineed linking play.

. The teams struggles with this as we don't have much midfield control and our defence is too slow. Azpiliqueta has been moved to LB and Oscar is chosen as the first choice No.10 ahead of De Bruyne and Mata.

. Mourinho decided to alter his tactics and play a more defensively counter attacking system which has a lower defensive line due to our midfield lack of control and defensave shortcomings. De Bruyne is not happy about being left out and wants to move. Hazard however is starting to come into some great form and playing some of his best football. This is around the end of November/December

. January comes and we are doing better performance wise, although we still struggle in attack slightly. Hazard is now at top form. Mata and De Bruyne are sold and Matic brought in.
Our defence is vastly improved and we are more solid in midfield. This then leads to our best form of the season. Oscar begins faltering and we blame it on tiredness.

. This is our best form of the season. We are counter attacking well, solid in defence and get great wins against Arsenal and Man City and PSG. Hazard is playing the best football he has shown and the best football in the league (Suarez had trailed off a bit around that time) arguably as good as anything he has done in a Chelsea shirt.

. Then Hazard starts to lose a bit of form and Oscar is non existent. Our defence is still good but we struggle with breaking teams down as they triple mark Hazard. This is where we end the season and lose the title in poor losses against Sunderland and Crystal Palace. It is clear we need creativity and a striker here. A great win against Liverpool saves a relatively disappointingredients season.

. Summer comes and it is clear what we are looking for. A creative midfielder that can dictate from deep and control the midfield whilst also helping unlock a packed defence. A striker who can make runs and draw attention from Hazard. Also a LB who is more attacking, allowing Azpi to go back to RB and offer more offensively threat, allowing us to get forward and attack more.

. These players are identified and brought in quickly. Fabregas, Costa and Luis are identified and bought before the world cup. Also, a possibly resurgent Oscar could mean a much more potent attack which allows us to be more expansive.

. The league starts and we start off inconsistent. On the one hand we look great at times going forwards. On the the other, the defence looks vulnerable and we seem to struggle to impose ourselves fully. During this time we record lots of high scoring wins like 4-2 against Swansea and 6-3 against Everton. Costa has started scoring at a very high rate and Fabregas is offering that magic that we wanted in midfield. Oscar is still poor though and Hazard is slow to start. Terry and Co. Have visibly dropped off from last season's levels.

. We are now ahead in the season and looking comfortable doing so. However, we are not as dominant as we can be and look like we are gearing up for a strong finish to the season. Most games are finished by 20 to 40 minutes of brillicit attacking football where we go 1/2-0 up and then we see the game out without too much bother. This has but us in the arse against both Manchester teams (Both 1-1 draws where we sit back and conceded after we scored first). Mourinho has started to point out that we are mentally still not killers. Hazard, Costa and Fabregas are our best players and the defence is showing better form.

. We struggle a bit after losing 2-1 to Newcastle. I do believe Costa started to get injured a bit more here and that meant we weren't as good in attack. We still eased out games in a similar fashion but the results weren't as efficient. Man City caught up to us in that time.

. Then came the big change. 5-3 and 4-2 losses to Tottenham and Blackpool lead to a change in tactics. A drop in form from Matic, Fabregas and Costa meant we were back to how we were the season before. The defence vulnerable and Hazard our only threat. Schurrle was sold because he was ineffective and Willian's work rate waso much better. Cuadrado replaced him to offer another threat from wide so as not to isolate Costa/Hazard in attack.

. We resorted back to our tactics of last season. The defence was at its best again and Hazard was playing at a very high level. Alooking, our grit and determination showed as we scraped our way through most games. This negative approach backfired in the CL where we fecked it against 10 manot PSG. This is where we won the league as Man City lost their way. The football was dull at times however most Chelsea fans were too swept up in the moment to worry about it.

. Season ended rather dully. No title run in, no CL run and the football was poor. We clearly needed to replace Oscar in midfield with a midfielder who could control the game whilst also being defensively sound to cover for Fabregas weaknesses. We also needed another wide forward that could score double digits and give another threat from wide to go with Hazard and Costa. A young CB that could pass from the back and allow us to play with a higher defensive line were also identified.

. Griezmann, Koke and Stones were the first choices for us. Koke was unobtainable and there wasn't really another player that fit that mould of player, Griezmann had a £45m buyout which we thought was too expensive. Pedro was brought in as an alternative. We tried to sign Stones but pissed off Everton, leading to them rejecting all of our offers. Papy was bought instead after failed bids for Marquinhos.

. Pre season was late for the players as Mourinho gave theme more rest. This meant we were going to have a slow start but should mean we ended the season stronger. This was seen in pre-Abrahmovic season, the charity shield and the first game of the season. That is where the Eva business reared it's ugly head as Mourinho off handedly insulted her and Fearn.

. We still struggled for results as our deficiencies were shown up and the players looked visibly not match fit. In this time, Mourinho descended into hysterics with every interview and started to shift blame onto his players.

. From there, confidence was shot and when the players finally reached match fitness they were completely out of form and couldn't get out of the rut. All the while, all of our problems the season before magnified and other problems showed up. Willian was the only player playing to the year befores standard as he was match fit coming into the season. Mourinho went full on meltdown every presser then and this lead to us falling into relegation and his eventual dismissal.
 
Stop making things up.

. We still struggled for results as our deficiencies were shown up and the players looked visibly not match fit. In this time, Mourinho descended into hysterics with every interview and started to shift blame onto his players.

. From there, confidence was shot and when the players finally reached match fitness they were completely out of form and couldn't get out of the rut. All the while, all of our problems the season before magnified and other problems showed up. Willian was the only player playing to the year befores standard as he was match fit coming into the season. Mourinho went full on meltdown every presser then and this lead to us falling into relegation and his eventual dismissal.
No, he didn't. And there's no video evidence to prove it.
 
No, he didn't. And there's no video evidence to prove it.
He threw Matic, Fabregas and Hazard under the bus. Also started to spin the narrative that the squad was poor and he got them over performing the season before.
 
He threw Matic, Fabregas and Hazard under the bus. Also started to spin the narrative that the squad was poor and he got them over performing the season before.
He didn't "throw them under the bus" they were terrible and he called them out on it.
 
Stop making things up.

Oscar was poor in 14/15. His best form was the first half of the 13/14 season but then Mata was sold and he lost all of his form. Terry had much better seasons then 14/15 which was actually fairly average for him. 04/05 to 09/10 were better. As was the season before where we played more defensively and with more defensive players to help him out.

Azpiliqueta did have his best season in 14/15 as he also did in 13/14. Againo, a bit of that was due to the defensive tactics we played which covered for his deficiencies. He also started performing very well the season before Mourinho joined so whether he was elevated to another level by Mourinho is questionable. 8vanovic was quite poor in that season actually. Defensively he was showing a lot of vulnerability and we leaked a lot of goals from that side. Manylon Chelsea fans wanted Azpi to take his place during the season.

Of course tactics matter. Shit players can be made to look better in a certain tactical set up. The fact that no Chelsea player vastly improved under Mourinho's coaching is very telling. Just because Mourinho played negative defensive football to make his defensive players look better does not mean he improved them. Just means he indulged them at the detriment of the team.

Oh man... i don't have that much time to read your very long post. However, i will reply to few of the points you made at the start of your post.

Regarding Oscar's performance, i don't remember exactly in which season he played better. But still, my point stays as in both seasons he was playing under Jose. So, he had his best performance for Chelsea under Jose.

As i remember, Terry himself has said in a post match interview that 14/15 is his best season. I guess this interview was after the last match of 14/15 where he also had a dig at Benitez. Again, i am not sure about the timing of this interview, but i do remember him saying that. Jose also has said that 14/15 is John's best season. Numerous pundits also had the same opinion.

I told you before that we are not arguing about the tactics, but we are arguing about some of your players performances. If Jose's tactics produced best performances from his players, then it confirms my argument that there was a Jose factor in Chelsea's performance in 13/14 and in 14/15 seasons. And as you said, if tactics were the reason for those high level performances, then it means Jose did great. It means, he understood the strengths and weaknesses of each players and choose the tactics which best suits them.

Ivanovic was the best right back in PL, if not in Europe, in 14/15. Through out the season, he was lauded by pundits and managers alike. You can see the best pundit's opinion in the following link.

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/foot...vanovic-is-the-best-Premier-League-right-back

No players vastly improved under Mourinho? Really? Then i would like to know your definition of vast improvement. And for the comparison, i also would like to know the name of the Chelsea player who, in your definition, were vastly improved under other Chelsea managers.

Jose's teams plays negative defensive football, hmmm...does that also include the period from July to December 2014? Because i heard people saying that your team played brilliant attacking football till December that season. So it means, his team set up is based on the condition of his team and the kind of threat from the opposition. He changed the tactics after December, because the oppositions understood the limitations of your team and they started to exploit it.

And you were arguing that your defenders looked better because of Jose's negative defensive football. So, if your team was playing brilliant attacking football from July to December 2014, then as per your point, your defenders must have had the worst performance during that time. Isn't it? Because as per you, your defenders under Jose are shit if they play attacking football and Jose can only play negative defensive football. So tell me, how many goals did your team scored and how many goals conceded during that period? Let me take a wild guess... your team must have conceded shed load of goals and lost most of the matches during that period. Am i right?
 
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Oh man... i don't have that much time to read your very long post. However, i will reply to few of the points you made at the start of your post.

Regarding Oscar's performance, i don't remember exactly in which season he played better. But still, my point stays as in both seasons he was playing under Jose. So, he had his best performance for Chelsea under Jose.

As i remember, Terry himself has said in a post match interview that 14/15 is his best season. I guess this interview was after the last match of 14/15 where he also had a dig at Benitez. Again, i am not sure about the timing of this interview, but i do remember him saying that. Jose also has said that 14/15 is John's best season. Numerous pundits also had the same opinion.

I told you before that we are not arguing about the tactics, but we are arguing about some of your players performances. If Jose's tactics produced best performances from his players, then it confirms my argument that there was a Jose factor in Chelsea's performance in 13/14 and in 14/15 seasons. And as you said, if tactics were the reason for those high level performances, then it means Jose did great. It means, he understood the strengths and weaknesses of each players and choose the tactics which best suits them.

Ivanovic was the best right back in PL, if not in Europe, in 14/15. Through out the season, he was lauded by pundits and managers alike. You can see the best pundit's opinion in the following link.

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/foot...vanovic-is-the-best-Premier-League-right-back

No players vastly improved under Mourinho? Really? Then i would like to know your definition of vast improvement. And for the comparison, i also would like to know the name of the Chelsea player who, in your definition, were vastly improved under other Chelsea managers.

Jose's teams plays negative defensive football, hmmm...does that also include the period from July to December 2014? Because i heard people saying that your team played brilliant attacking football till December that season. So it means, his team set up is based on the condition of his team and the kind of threat from the opposition. He changed the tactics after December, because the oppositions understood the limitations of your team and they started to exploit it.

And you were arguing that your defenders looked better because of Jose's negative defensive football. So, if your team was playing brilliant attacking football from July to December 2014, then as per your point, your defenders must have had the worst performance during that time. Isn't it? Because as per you, your defenders under Jose are shit if they play attacking football and Jose can only play negative defensive football. So tell me, how many goals did your team scored and how many goals conceded during that period? Let me take a wild guess... your team must have conceded shed load of goals and lost most of the matches during that period. Am i right?
This debate will likely go on in circles because you seem to be ignoring my points and just deciding that you poinuts are facts.

Oscar had his best six months at the beginning of Mourinho's reign. He then had his worst 1 and a half years following that under Mourinho where he was poor to shit. His first season under Di Matteo and Benitez were better overall then his two years under Mourinho.

Terry did not have his best season in 14/15. 13/14 was better and Mourinho's 04/05 and 05/06 seasons were much better. These were seasons where we conceded only 16 and 20 goals in the league and Terry was pivotal to that. The two seasons under Mourinho were a revelation because people thought he was over the hill. Not because he was playing his best football.

Ivanovic has always been great at Chelsea. He wasn't elevated by Mourinho except maybe the 13/14 season where he had his best season (Again due to tactics). The 14/15 season he was clearly in decline and moSt Chelsea fans had identified him as a weak spot in the first team. Just because thicko pundits like Robbie Savage state that they think he was amazing doesn't mean he was. He was good.

Playing tactics that make the team worse just to get improvement from certain players is not great management in my opinion.

In the first half of the 14/15 season under Jose we scored 44 and conceded 19 in 20 games. In the second half of the season we conceded 13 and scored 29 in 18 games. Of course we had won the league by the crystal palace game and so the last three games were youth players and our players in party mode (Which is where we conceded 5 of the 13 goals). So say 25 scored and 8 conceded in 15 games.
 
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First half of the season:
2.2 goals scored per game.
0.95 goals conceded per game.

Second half of the season:
1.7 goals scored per game.
0.53 goals conceded per game.
 
Compare his seasons statistically.

2014/15:
1.92 goals per game
0.84 conceded per game

2013/14:
1.86 goals per game
0.71 conceded per game

Also let's look at the four seasons before.

2012/13:
1.97 goals per game
1.02 conceded per game

2011/12:
1.71 goals per game
1.21 conceded per game

2010/2011:
1.82 goals scored per game
0.86 conceded per game

2009/10:
2.7 goals scored per game
0.82 conceded per game
 
How many goals scored to goals conceded:

14/15:
2.3

13/14:
2.6

12/13:
1.93

11/13:
1.43

10/11:
2.11

09/10:
3.3
 
Problem with OScar during Jose's time was that OScar was use like a hybrid of Essien/Vidal and Willian...

When Oscar played for brazil in the olympics in 2012, he was a completely different player.
 
Tactically he's been outstanding in this tournament with a poor Italian side. Though Van Gaal was the same at the World Cup with Holland. Hopefully it goes the same way for Conte.
 
Who are they signing? Looks like they have been rejected by Roma and Naingollan

Can't see them finishing above us with Ibrahimovic and Mkhitaryan joining. Plus a proper CB of Bailly over Blind
 
Who are they signing? Looks like they have been rejected by Roma and Naingollan

Can't see them finishing above us with Ibrahimovic and Mkhitaryan joining. Plus a proper CB of Bailly over Blind
Hazard coming back after a year absence is going to make a huge difference to be fair. He's world class on form, one of the best in the world, and Conte will surely get him performing better then last season. They do need to revitalize their defence though.
 
Hazard coming back after a year absence is going to make a huge difference to be fair. He's world class on form, one of the best in the world, and Conte will surely get him performing better then last season. They do need to revitalize their defence though.
Yeah I can see them being one of the title contenders for sure. Although I think Mourinho will out do Chelsea and City next season
 
Yeah I can see them being one of the title contenders for sure. Although I think Mourinho will out do Chelsea and City next season
Lets hope so. Chelsea will also have no european football. Just the league to contend with so they will be up there for sure.