Chelsea under Conte | Let's sign the next Hazard, literally.

I've been pretty impressed with him from this tournament, Italy look very well organised and have been efficient in their overall play.

What system is he likely to employ at Chelsea? I'd be surprised if he went with 3-5-2 given their current personnel and I think they'd need to make several changes to make it work.

Speaking of which, the only players I've seen them linked to so far are Nainggolan, Andre Gomes and Morata. I know it's not yet July but things seem to be strangely quiet on the transfer front for them, given how poor they were last season.
 
Gol123 said:
We have 2. Baba is essentially a wing back too.

Courtois
Cahill---Terry---CB
Fabregas
Cuadrado---Willian---CM---Baba
Costa---Hazard

Defence will need a couple of players but Christensen and Zouma means we don't need wholesale changes there. CM needs at least one defensive box to box player. Maybe two if Willian can't play there. Baba isn't great but maybe a more attacking role and Conte'so influence can improve him. Hazard is a good second striker and plays his best football centrally.

However, we may go a different route if Conte doesn't see the personnel working for this formation.
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Fabregas would get overrun in that midfield, Cuadrado failed to make it here, JT is done, I'm still unsure about Baba.
 
I really hope he doesn't play that 3 at the back nonsense, it's been proven that it just doesn't work in this league nor do we have the players capable of playing in there.

I would prefer a simple 4-3-3.

Courtois
Azpi-Zouma-new player-Baba
----Kante---Fabregas---Nainngolan---
--Willian----Costa-----Hazard

That midfield would free up Fabregas.
 
Theafonis said:
I really hope he doesn't play that 3 at the back nonsense, it's been proven that it just doesn't work in this league nor do we have the players capable of playing in there.

I would prefer a simple 4-3-3.

Courtois
Azpi-Zouma-new player-Baba
----Kante---Fabregas---Nainngolan---
--Willian----Costa-----Hazard

That midfield would free up Fabregas.
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We would need to upgrade willian for someone with better end product in that lineup. That front line will struggle to score 30 goals in total.
 
AshfordLad said:
We would need to upgrade willian for someone with better end product in that lineup. That front line will struggle to score 30 goals in total.
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I really can't think of any one that is available at a fair price. Maybe Griezmann? James Rodriguez perhaps if we push hard enough, it seems Zidane doesn't like him very much.
 
cyberman said:
Kante isn't a sitting midfielder though. That would never work.
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Fabregas would sit, and Kante would be the main ball winner in there. Cesc's legs are gone but he could potentially be eased into a Pirlo type of role, while someone like Kante would do the main defensive side of things.
 
I think Conte would have to adapt and change his tactics considering that A) he currently doesn't have the players to play 3-5-2 at a high level and B) His system might not work against the smaller teams that crowd the midfield and like to sit back and play on the counter (let's face it Chiellini and Bonucci are streets ahead of any Chelsea defender in defending and passing out from the back, so this style will not be easy to replicate unless the club is going invest a huge amount for getting the right players)

Another interesting aspect will be his relationship with the players given that like Mourinho he too demands much more than 100% from his players and conveys that in a very typical aggressive fashion which might not sit well with some players.
 
Theafonis said:
I really can't think of any one that is available at a fair price. Maybe Griezmann? James Rodriguez perhaps if we push hard enough, it seems Zidane doesn't like him very much.
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If not anyone I would stick Pedro or Traore in there for Willian.

Willian is simply not good enough for a 433.
 
129104946 said:
Van Gaal wasn't the same though. The same in the sense that they both performed well enough and had high expectations coming into a new league. But Conte's Italy team looks tactically much better than Van Gaals Holland team did.
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not true. Italy looks better because overall their team is better than Holland 2014. He neutralised quite a few teams. Spain, Chile (who were very good), Argentina with Messi, Brazil (though they were low on confidence) were all neutralised with De Jong, De vrij, Vlaar and all. Not like Italy are amazing but their defence, Keeper and DMs are excellent.
 
Vanya said:
I think Conte would have to adapt and change his tactics considering that A) he currently doesn't have the players to play 3-5-2 at a high level and B) His system might not work against the smaller teams that crowd the midfield and like to sit back and play on the counter (let's face it Chiellini and Bonucci are streets ahead of any Chelsea defender in defending and passing out from the back, so this style will not be easy to replicate unless the club is going invest a huge amount for getting the right players)

Another interesting aspect will be his relationship with the players given that like Mourinho he too demands much more than 100% from his players and conveys that in a very typical aggressive fashion which might not sit well with some players.
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Conte playing a 3-5-3 is already an adaptation of his tactics because it's not his preferred formation.
 
129104946 said:
Conte playing a 3-5-3 is already an adaptation of his tactics because it's not his preferred formation.
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Do you mean 3-4-3? Yeah he might do that but what I'm stressing is that he doesn't have the personnel to play the 3/5 at the back both at CB and at WB. (At the moment) and that system has worked for very few teams and certainly not consistently through the season. (Eg. Liverpool and Southampton used for spells but switched back)
 
Vanya said:
Do you mean 3-4-3? Yeah he might do that but what I'm stressing is that he doesn't have the personnel to play the 3/5 at the back both at CB and at WB. (At the moment) and that system has worked for very few teams and certainly not consistently through the season. (Eg. Liverpool and Southampton used for spells but switched back)
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No, I meant 3-5-2, sorry. Bad typo.

But what I was getting at is he only plays that formation for Juventus and Italy because that's what he has the players for. It's not his preferred formation. He prefers a standard 4 at the back formation that most teams use. He even used it about 25 times (24 exactly) while he was at Juventus. So his 3 at the back that most think he has to adapt from is already an adaptation of a standard 4 at the back he'll look to play with at Chelsea.
 
AshfordLad said:
We would need to upgrade willian for someone with better end product in that lineup. That front line will struggle to score 30 goals in total.
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Nonsense. Hazard is a 15+ goal a season player don't let last season fool you. Costa will also get 15+

Willian does indeed need to go though. Not good enough.
 
129104946 said:
No, I meant 3-5-2, sorry. Bad typo.

But what I was getting at is he only plays that formation for Juventus and Italy because that's what he has the players for. It's not his preferred formation. He prefers a standard 4 at the back formation that most teams use. He even used it about 25 times (24 exactly) while he was at Juventus. So his 3 at the back that most think he has to adapt from is already an adaptation of a standard 4 at the back he'll look to play with at Chelsea.
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Do you mean 24 times in 3 seasons? That's not a lot of games. Moreover, I'm not sure 4 at the back is his preferred formation because he never really bought an established LB.

He had a very good RB in Lichsteiner but never bought a good LB to play 4 at the back (Padoin Asamoah De Ceglie are all average LBs defensively and are better as WBs and Grosso was too old) if he wanted to play 4 at the back then why didn't he buy an established LB despite failing in Europe multiple times with 3-5-2? And as soon as Conte left Juve bought two LBs.

This indicates to me that he wasn't interested in playing 4 at the back. Maybe I'm wrong, but he strikes me as a typical Italian coach with a defensive and combative mentality. I don't think the conventional 4 at the back is something he prefers over 5 at the back.
 
BlueCelery said:
Nonsense. Hazard is a 15+ goal a season player don't let last season fool you. Costa will also get 15+

Willian does indeed need to go though. Not good enough.
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That's still less then 40 goals.
 
BlueCelery said:
Nonsense. Hazard is a 15+ goal a season player don't let last season fool you. Costa will also get 15+

Willian does indeed need to go though. Not good enough.
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What utter bollocks. Hazard has never scored 15 goals in a PL season ever. And Costa is going to spend half the season suspended/injured as usual.

Stop deluding yourself. We desperately need to sign forwards this summer.
 
Vanya said:
Do you mean 24 times in 3 seasons? That's not a lot of games. Moreover, I'm not sure 4 at the back is his preferred formation because he never really bought an established LB.

He had a very good RB in Lichsteiner but never bought a good LB to play 4 at the back (Padoin Asamoah De Ceglie are all average LBs defensively and are better as WBs and Grosso was too old) if he wanted to play 4 at the back then why didn't he buy an established LB despite failing in Europe multiple times with 3-5-2? And as soon as Conte left Juve bought two LBs.

This indicates to me that he wasn't interested in playing 4 at the back. Maybe I'm wrong, but he strikes me as a typical Italian coach with a defensive and combative mentality. I don't think the conventional 4 at the back is something he prefers over 5 at the back.
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24 times in the league over 3 seasons is more than a quarter of the games.

And I can't find the video because I'm at work but there is a video of him talking about his preference and he speaks of liking 4 at the back best but using 3 because of the players (and how well it worked) at Juve.

Even if it wasn't his preferred he wouldn't try and change it if it worked so well. He will use 4 at the back at Chelsea. I'm sure of it.
 
129104946 said:
24 times in the league over 3 seasons is more than a quarter of the games.

And I can't find the video because I'm at work but there is a video of him talking about his preference and he speaks of liking 4 at the back best but using 3 because of the players (and how well it worked) at Juve.

Even if it wasn't his preferred he wouldn't try and change it if it worked so well. He will use 4 at the back at Chelsea. I'm sure of it.
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Maybe you're right, after all he did use 4 at the back before he joined Juve. Maybe the 3-5-2 was used to protect Pirlo. That's a possibility. Another possibility is that I'm right and he really did develop an affinity for 3 at the back while being at Juve because he still uses it with Italy who don't have Pirlo playing for them. He obviously cannot use 3 -5-2 with Chelsea's current squad. So yes maybe he will be forced to play 4 at the back. At least You and I can agree on this much - whether he prefers it or not he will play 4 at the back.

Edit- I was assuming 24 games including copa Italia and European games. Even if it's league games 24 games over 3 seasons is less than a quarter :p
 
Vanya said:
Maybe you're right, after all he did use 4 at the back before he joined Juve. Maybe the 3-5-2 was used to protect Pirlo. That's a possibility. Another possibility is that I'm right and he really did develop an affinity for 3 at the back while being at Juve because he still uses it with Italy who don't have Pirlo playing for them. He obviously cannot use 3 -5-2 with Chelsea's current squad. So yes maybe he will be forced to play 4 at the back. At least You and I can agree on this much - whether he prefers it or not he will play 4 at the back.

Edit- I was assuming 24 games including copa Italia and European games. Even if it's league games 24 games over 3 seasons is less than a quarter :p
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I'm no good at the math :lol:

Yeah, who knows really. I'm sure he'll use 4 at the back, not sure if he'll want to though I guess. Suppose we'll see
 
129104946 said:
I'm no good at the math :lol:

Yeah, who knows really. I'm sure he'll use 4 at the back, not sure if he'll want to though I guess. Suppose we'll see
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Neither am I. Today must be my day. :) It's dinner time for me I'm off! Enjoy work!
 
I think Conte will surprise many by churning out quiet efficient results, this Italy squad is terrible, yet the team is great. An anti-England, of sorts.
A top manager who should get Chelsea back into top four, with Hazard leading the numbers, again.
 
Gol123 said:
They did. He won the league with 84, 87 and 102 points respectively. Mourinho's best season was 84 points in the league. In terms of the league, Conte outperformed him (Which is what I was referring to there). Not my fault you misread what I wrote.
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He won a treble with Inter. He achieved that in Italy. You could've easily said "he outdid Mourinho in Serie A". Really not that hard to do, but okay, fair enough.

AshfordLad said:
Conte: Games 151, Wins 102, Draws 34, Losses 15
Mourinho: Games 108, Wins 67, Draws 26, Losses 15

Ok Mourinho did btter in CL but he did inherit a team that was Champions 3 seasons in a row. Conte picked up a team that was 7th two seasons in a row and had them performing better than Mourinho's Inter team.
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06-08 Inter was like the City of today, only more dominant in their league. They always crumbled in Europe and Jose played a huge part in turning them around.
 
MounchesterUtd said:
He won a treble with Inter. He achieved that in Italy. You could've easily said "he outdid Mourinho in Serie A". Really not that hard to do, but okay, fair enough.



06-08 Inter was like the City of today, only more dominant in their league. They always crumbled in Europe and Jose played a huge part in turning them around.
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I did say that. I said he dominated the league in a way even Mourinho couldn't. I also said Domestically he outperformed Mourinho. None of those statements suggest he achieved more in Italy then Mourinho did. Just that he achieved more in the league (Which he did).
 
Vanya said:
Do you mean 24 times in 3 seasons? That's not a lot of games. Moreover, I'm not sure 4 at the back is his preferred formation because he never really bought an established LB.

He had a very good RB in Lichsteiner but never bought a good LB to play 4 at the back (Padoin Asamoah De Ceglie are all average LBs defensively and are better as WBs and Grosso was too old) if he wanted to play 4 at the back then why didn't he buy an established LB despite failing in Europe multiple times with 3-5-2? And as soon as Conte left Juve bought two LBs.

This indicates to me that he wasn't interested in playing 4 at the back. Maybe I'm wrong, but he strikes me as a typical Italian coach with a defensive and combative mentality. I don't think the conventional 4 at the back is something he prefers over 5 at the back.
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He didn't want to break up the 3 CB's he had in Chiellini, Barzagli and Bonucci.

From what I have gathered, he likes aggressive pressing, solidity and organisation in defence and lots of possession and building from the back.
 
Gol123 said:
He didn't want to break up the 3 CB's he had in Chiellini, Barzagli and Bonucci.

From what I have gathered, he likes aggressive pressing, solidity and organisation in defence and lots of possession and building from the back.
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As far as I remember delneri didn't play 3 cb's. He played a back 4 of Traore, Motta, Sorenson/Bonucci and Cheillini. That was Barzagli's first season back from Wolfsburg. He only played 15 games. So there wasn't anything to break up. Barzagli really became the defender we know under Conte not before his arrival.
 
Vanya said:
As far as I remember delneri didn't play 3 cb's. He played a back 4 of Traore, Motta, Sorenson/Bonucci and Cheillini. That was Barzagli's first season back from Wolfsburg. He only played 15 games
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What?
 
Gol123 said:
What?
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You said he didn't want to break up the three CBs. I assumed you mean they played together frequently. Hence the terms "break up". I guess I misunderstood what you wanted to convey.
 
MounchesterUtd said:
06-08 Inter was like the City of today, only more dominant in their league. They always crumbled in Europe and Jose played a huge part in turning them around.
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While 08-11 Juve were mediocre. Conte turned them into Invincibles.
 
Vanya said:
You said he didn't want to break up the three CBs. I assumed you mean they played together frequently. Hence the terms "break up". I guess I misunderstood what you wanted to convey.
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I meant that after his first couple of seasons, he couldn't break up the trio as they were too valuable to the team.
 
Vanya said:
I think Conte would have to adapt and change his tactics considering that A) he currently doesn't have the players to play 3-5-2 at a high level and B) His system might not work against the smaller teams that crowd the midfield and like to sit back and play on the counter (let's face it Chiellini and Bonucci are streets ahead of any Chelsea defender in defending and passing out from the back, so this style will not be easy to replicate unless the club is going invest a huge amount for getting the right players)

Another interesting aspect will be his relationship with the players given that like Mourinho he too demands much more than 100% from his players and conveys that in a very typical aggressive fashion which might not sit well with some players.
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Vanya said:
I think Conte would have to adapt and change his tactics considering that A) he currently doesn't have the players to play 3-5-2 at a high level and B) His system might not work against the smaller teams that crowd the midfield and like to sit back and play on the counter (let's face it Chiellini and Bonucci are streets ahead of any Chelsea defender in defending and passing out from the back, so this style will not be easy to replicate unless the club is going invest a huge amount for getting the right players)

Another interesting aspect will be his relationship with the players given that like Mourinho he too demands much more than 100% from his players and conveys that in a very typical aggressive fashion which might not sit well with some players.
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Teams in Serie A do nothing but sit back vs juve and his juve side had 0 problems dealing with that even while using that formation. They ran into problems when Pirlo could be neutralized cause the other midfielders weren't up to play making, while Bayern spread the ball really well to isolate players out wide. An expansive team would hurt conte's system but I don't see any in the league.
 
Gol123 said:
I meant that after his first couple of seasons, he couldn't break up the trio as they were too valuable to the team.
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I think he's grown a genuine affinity to the system. Allegri took most of the same players that he had and immediately switched to 4 at the back for the majority of the games. Conte took control of Italy and immediately reverted back using those three again. Fact is, its almost watertight defending when he uses it. So he can go against teams with better players(as he will have to do next season too) and still stand a great chance of winning the match if his team passes out well from the back and launches dangerous counters.
 
RooneyLegend said:
I think he's grown a genuine affinity to the system. Allegri took most of the same players that he had and immediately switched to 4 at the back for the majority of the games. Conte took control of Italy and immediately reverted back using those three again. Fact is, its almost watertight defending when he uses it. So he can go against teams with better players(as he will have to do next season too) and still stand a great chance of winning the match if his team passes out well from the back and launches dangerous counters.
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He likes having possession of the ball though.
 
Gol123 said:
He likes having possession of the ball though.
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Against inferior teams that's true. He won't be using high risk pressing tactics like stationing his defenders on the half way line like pep so his team can have the get the ball back at all costs.
 
RooneyLegend said:
Against inferior teams that's true. He won't be using high risk pressing tactics like stationing his defenders on the half way line like pep so his team can have the get the ball back at all costs.
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Good. Our defenders are too slow to do that.

There do seem to be many similarities between him and LVG. Worries me a little.
 
Gol123 said:
Good. Our defenders are too slow to do that.

There do seem to be many similarities between him and LVG. Worries me a little.
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I see no similarities between the two tbh. Van Gaal is the sort of moron who thinks having the ball all the time is point of the sport while Conte is someone who wants his team to be good on the ball. Conte loves a vertical pass into forwards feet(sure you've noticed it with pelle in this tourney, as was the case with vucinic and later tevez at juve) in order to drag center backs out of position and for midfield runners to run into the space while Van Gaals way is all about horizontal passing. Van Gaals teams press to stay organised, basically the hunger to have the ball is his teams' best defensive tool while Conte pretty much makes his teams defend well regardless whether it be deep or whether pressing the ball. Like most Italian managers, Conte doesn't like to see his team look to win the ball if it could have fateful consquences, Van Gaal always wanted our team to go ball searching. Van Gaal also rarely used 3 center mids playing together while I've never seen a Conte team without 3 center mids. The only similarity is the passing out from the back bit.
 
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