Yep. As I said earlier that's what done Glasgow Rangers in in the end not even the SFA could get them out of that one
City and Financial Doping | Charged by PL with numerous FFP breaches
- Thread starter VanGaalEra
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Yep. As I said earlier that's what done Glasgow Rangers in in the end not even the SFA could get them out of that one
Ah the Telegraph, if their not defending scummy Tories, they are now defending 100 charges of financial maladministration.
I've had more time to think about this, and the answer is simple - they have to hammer them, because if they don't it then gives a free pass to the Saudis owning Newcastle to do the same thing, and whoever comes in and buys the next club, then the next one. Nip it in the bud now and show that the sport cannot be bought as easily as this.
They of course have to be proven guilty of the most serious of crimes alleged against them for any of the above to happen, which is the difficult part, as I am positive that they will fight this for years, whilst continuing to be more 'creative' with their accounting in the meantime.
- Strip them of their titles - all of them, leagues and cup wins. Titles do not get awarded to 2nd place teams, they show 'no winner' instead. There is no joy to be had of being awarded a title by default, it cannot be celebrated and keeping 'no winner' on record will remind us of what happened. Also, it prevents Gerrard getting a winners medal
- Demote them to League 2, at least. They've cheated to a massive scale and need to be punished for that accordingly. Demotion must happen.
- A serious point deduction for next season, say -30 - enough to make sure they don't go up first time of asking. If the demotion is only a single league, then increase the points deduction. They can't be in a position where they go down for a season and come straight back up to the PL.
- Transfer ban for a significant amount of time, 2-5 years.
- Ban from European competition for 5-10 years (depending on demotion).
They of course have to be proven guilty of the most serious of crimes alleged against them for any of the above to happen, which is the difficult part, as I am positive that they will fight this for years, whilst continuing to be more 'creative' with their accounting in the meantime.
That’s a yes?What a bellend.
Do I deserve to be asked that question..
Yeah don't think there is any way EFL should be expected to just allow City into League 1 or something. They'll need to give them a points deduction either in this one or the next season, the only sporting penalty I expect along with a transfer ban possibly.
I wish I had the confidence that some do that they’ll be punished, but I think they’ll basically get off with it all.
We know they’ve been cheating for years.
City’s owners have like 15 clubs now! That’s insane and let’s be honest they built City’s reputation off our backs. Period.
They are a soulless imitation who used our reputation to make themselves seem relevant as “rivals”.
Might as well hand us all their I’ll gotten titles because let’s be honest if we weren’t such a great club their owners would have bought Leeds or Newcastle instead.
We made that monstrosity inadvertently. Burn them with fire I say
City’s owners have like 15 clubs now! That’s insane and let’s be honest they built City’s reputation off our backs. Period.
They are a soulless imitation who used our reputation to make themselves seem relevant as “rivals”.
Might as well hand us all their I’ll gotten titles because let’s be honest if we weren’t such a great club their owners would have bought Leeds or Newcastle instead.
We made that monstrosity inadvertently. Burn them with fire I say
Yeah and not stuff that I see any meaningful punishment for either.
They are untouchable now
Yep, there is no way City come out with a guilty verdict because that will mean:
1. Lost trust in the PL, allowing a team to cheat for 10+ Years
2. They would need to force a sale, if they are guilty, they cant pass the fit and proper test
3. 10 years of PL would be known for cheats
I cannot see how the PL do anything buy fine them 10m or some arbitrary figure in negotiations.
That’s why the rumour seems to be City will be thrown out of the league ether than a relegation.
I can’t see how this is a plus for City.
Definitely.
Yeah agree with that as well. I've missed the Arsenal rivalry and hope that it's coming back. Far prefer our games v them over City.
This is one of the main reasons they could be found guilty though? If they don’t punish City for this, the league will forever be fecked. All faith and trust in rule breaking will be lost.
One thing they absolutely have to do is force City to cancel all these 'sponsorships'. Any future sponsorships would need to be rigorously checked and have zero involvement with the owners.
Prevent them from ever doing this any further regardless of what other punishments they get.
Prevent them from ever doing this any further regardless of what other punishments they get.
If this were true they wouldn’t have spent 4 years building the case. There’s a reason why City went for court injunctions and it’s not because they expect a fine and points deduction
Yeah, that's why I also think they will be punished to the fullest extent.
Blue home kit, right?
Blue home kit, right?
those fecks shouldn’t be able to get off that lightly.
If the PL cannot get a guilty verdict, it will embolden and rally even more support for the government when it appoints an independent regulator to oversee football and give the leagues a guard dog they have to tippy tap around for the rest of their existence. Their autonomy is at stake here and there's a good reason why they picked the biggest offender and went for the jugular.
The thing is we all thing this should be the case. We know they have cheated, the PL know they have cheated too.
If they are found guilty, the last 10 years of the PL will just be an Asterix, would the PL want that?
They have built it over 4 years, City know its coming so they have had time to get rid of the evidence.
In all honesty, a fine is not good enough, I would be worried for the PL future if there was just a fine, other clubs will then start cheating knowing, 10 years of cheating and all you get is a slap on the write.
If they do not make an example of City, they would be encouraging cheating.
I've had more time to think about this, and the answer is simple - they have to hammer them, because if they don't it then gives a free pass to the Saudis owning Newcastle to do the same thing, and whoever comes in and buys the next club, then the next one. Nip it in the bud now and show that the sport cannot be bought as easily as this.
The above doesn't take into account potential financial claims from clubs who have been relegated from the PL due to losses or goals conceded in games against them. Nor does it include teams that have been eliminated from domestic cup competitions, for whom potential extra revenue would have been important. Also, there will be European teams who have been eliminated from the CL, either entirely or been demoted to the EL, for whom that loss of additional prize money and TV rights will have made a serious impact to.
- Strip them of their titles - all of them, leagues and cup wins. Titles do not get awarded to 2nd place teams, they show 'no winner' instead. There is no joy to be had of being awarded a title by default, it cannot be celebrated and keeping 'no winner' on record will remind us of what happened. Also, it prevents Gerrard getting a winners medal
- Demote them to League 2, at least. They've cheated to a massive scale and need to be punished for that accordingly. Demotion must happen.
- A serious point deduction for next season, say -30 - enough to make sure they don't go up first time of asking. If the demotion is only a single league, then increase the points deduction. They can't be in a position where they go down for a season and come straight back up to the PL.
- Transfer ban for a significant amount of time, 2-5 years.
- Ban from European competition for 5-10 years (depending on demotion).
They of course have to be proven guilty of the most serious of crimes alleged against them for any of the above to happen, which is the difficult part, as I am positive that they will fight this for years, whilst continuing to be more 'creative' with their accounting in the meantime.
One thing you can guarantee is if they get stripped of the titles they will get awarded to second place, the Premier league will not, under any circumstances have their records read "no winner" in 6 different years
I wonder what would have happened in those seasons if team’s results against city were expunged.
Like what happens to teams that go bust mid season.
That would be a reasonably fair way to assess the impact of what they have done.
Like what happens to teams that go bust mid season.
That would be a reasonably fair way to assess the impact of what they have done.
It's still amazing to realize how what seemed like a dire decade for us, would actually be a decade with another three title wins if it weren't for the cheaters. Puts the challenges proper clubs like us, Pool and Arsenal have faced into perspective. Kick them the hell out and don't let them back until they've sold up and earned their way back.
With the government coming in I really don’t think they care how it looks. They made their money from City and tv contracts anyway, it’s not their problem anymore.
Any guilty verdict gives them the same problem, it invalidates everything. What needs to be done is to set a marker to stop this happening in the future or the sport is Fecked. They could win the 4th title out of 5 this year, if this isn’t punished then it’ll be 9/10 and keeps going. What good would that be for the league?
City have a tiny fanbase, they keep winning. Newcastle come up and do the exact same thing.
Now the league is dominated by two teams who can’t draw a viewer or sell a shirt between them on the global stage. That’s killing the product.
If they were this bothered by that aspect they wouldnt have bothered to even investigate them.
This is a massive moment in modern football history, if PL don’t punishment them, Pandora’s box is well and truly opened and it’s never closing again.
this. Top level football world is already in a very unhealthy condition right now. Mild punishment would take the league, and the sport in general, to a very bleak future.
I'm surprised by the lack of emphasis being put on how this has to be the end of their ownership. As rival fans who've lost out through cheating, we're focused on footballing punishments (points deductions, relegations, etc) and rightly so, but the first and most obvious sanction imposed must be the forced sale of the club by ADUG - who've proven themselves the absolute pinnacle of not 'fit and proper' owners again and again over the course of more than a decade.
If only a 'moderate' footballing sanction like a 30 point deduction and a three window incoming transfer embargo is imposed, the club being sold or not sold will make a huge difference. Such a point deduction probably would lose them 2-4 key players but I doubt it'd relegate them, and then they could eventually be back as 'just' a Newcastle-level threat, i.e. being a top 4 club and borderline/eventual title challenger by 'just about' obeying FFP with all its allowed losses etc. So not that big of a fall ultimately and absolutely not justice, especially since it means the rest of the league have to continue to compete alongside proven cheats of owners.
The narrative of pressure applied by the rest of football needs to focus more squarely on 'ADUG need to go'. A whole lot of 'footballing consequences' would naturally follow from that anyway (and there should still be some imposed, of course).
If only a 'moderate' footballing sanction like a 30 point deduction and a three window incoming transfer embargo is imposed, the club being sold or not sold will make a huge difference. Such a point deduction probably would lose them 2-4 key players but I doubt it'd relegate them, and then they could eventually be back as 'just' a Newcastle-level threat, i.e. being a top 4 club and borderline/eventual title challenger by 'just about' obeying FFP with all its allowed losses etc. So not that big of a fall ultimately and absolutely not justice, especially since it means the rest of the league have to continue to compete alongside proven cheats of owners.
The narrative of pressure applied by the rest of football needs to focus more squarely on 'ADUG need to go'. A whole lot of 'footballing consequences' would naturally follow from that anyway (and there should still be some imposed, of course).
The owners of United and Lpool saw this coming. The likely outcome of all this depresses the market for sports washing-- limiting potential buyers etc, excluding nation states on the City model.
City being dismantled will show the fans the product is real. It’s tough; they would not have gone with this and risked the whole structure. One consequence for MUFC I suspect, is the Glazers stay, or sell below the odds. I think the Saudi owners of Kashoggi United will be keeping quiet as mice.
City being dismantled will show the fans the product is real. It’s tough; they would not have gone with this and risked the whole structure. One consequence for MUFC I suspect, is the Glazers stay, or sell below the odds. I think the Saudi owners of Kashoggi United will be keeping quiet as mice.
Needs to be a real punishment like taking titles away and/or relegation. No point just giving them a fine and points deduction, if they can cheat for 10+ years and only have 1 season ruined they'd be getting away with it and wouldn't be a deterrent to stop other clubs doing the same
So they’ll be found not guilty but still fined? How does that work?
Negotiation. Pay a sum to make it all go away.
Don't get me wrong, I want the PL to come down on City with the right sanctions. There has to be a precedent set, especially with more owners, more money coming into the PL. They do not want to lose control.
I guarantee you Newcastle are paying real close attention to this, something needs to be done and it has to start with City.
They got out of the UEFA case by paying people of and a technicality.
For the future of the PL, unfortunately, City may have to go.
Good analysis. Long term projections show there must be regulatory control. Belief is the key commodity. City, if the verdict goes against them, will become toxic fast.
If you are found not guilty what do you need to negotiate exactly?
This is what I was about to post, until I caught up.
I can't see how they can pass that benchmark now. (When found guilty)
Also, if City obstruct as they did with UEFA, the FA should impose an open-ended transfer ban until they are satisfied.
The obstruction would not need to be part of the case, as it would be happening live.
This will be a negotiation, if you look at the person leading the investigation, part of his expertise is dispute resolution.
From the past, I just have no faith that any sanctions will apply.
So the premier League has been sitting on this for 14 years doing nothing about it.
Now that the reform is coming they had to act now so that they didn't seem like a corrupt entity allowing this rule breaking to continue before someone else caught them.
So in essence the EPL is corrupt and now have been given no choice but to do something about it before this legislation for reform comes.
Now that the reform is coming they had to act now so that they didn't seem like a corrupt entity allowing this rule breaking to continue before someone else caught them.
So in essence the EPL is corrupt and now have been given no choice but to do something about it before this legislation for reform comes.
Barney Ronay says
Are they really the sponsors?
Are they really the sponsors?
I don’t think they’d investigate for four years and bring 100 charges if they don’t intend to see it through fully
whether they do or not will come down to cities legal team’s ability to fight the charge but the intent is very clear to take them down
but regardless, a fine implies guilt which was what I was getting at
Tick fecking Tock