Cop in America doing a bad job, again

Fortitude said:
Do you ever feel like a tipping point has been reached that will break the camel's back and turn the country upside down (as opposed to a few days of rioting before the usual cycles repeat on themselves)?
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Not at all. The elites have an even tighter grip on power than ever before. It's no contest.
 
AaronRedDevil said:
Don't get me wrong. I don't blame the outrage one bit. Black people in are getting royally fked in america on a daily basis. I saw it first hand when l went there for the first time. In Florida. Poor fella got slammed on to the bonnet of a car for no fecking reason. He simply put his hand on the officer shoulder to try and explain what happened as a witness and his partner just went for him.

I supposed they are doing it to be taking seriously and make them bastards listen. Obviously I'm not really judging. Do what they have to do for some justice.
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Martin Luther King said that riots are the voice of the unheard. This is them expressing themselves, and quite frankly I don't blame them.

People are angry because they know that this isn't the beginning, middle or end, this is just what it's like to be black and that they, or someone they know could be next.
How can you reconcile that feeling? You can't. It's generational, unprovoked daily trauma.
Black people are murdered by the very people sworn in to protect them, and nothing happens. Maybe this cop will face justice, but he didn't act alone - and if it wasn't for video it's unlikely he would've been or reprimanded. But ultimately nothing will change.

Like I said, America is lucky black people didn't torch the entire place earlier.
 
Im just catching up on all this after being shamefully ignorant of what has been going on. Its genuinely a bit upsetting to see some of this - like the twitter thread and the "autistic person lives here" image linked earlier. I dont know what the solution is at this point, and I think its only going to get worse. feck knows where we (they) end up.

One the one hand, the rioting is bad. On the other hand, its understandable, and seeing the difference in policing between certain protests is just another vindication of it, really.
 
JPRouve said:
Is that the issue though? Because I don't think that these officers acted the way they did due to poor training but based on pure contempt.
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I'm not saying that's the issue with regards to Minnesota. I'm commenting on the discussion that is currently being had in the thread about the stark difference in police training in the US (a few months) vs. some countries in Europe (a couple to a few years).
 
George Owen said:
:lol:

French protesters are big source of inspiration.
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I wonder how the US would cope if tomorrow 65m of french were swapped with 65m of americans. With easy access to rifles and guns, I give it a couple of weeks for the start of the second American revolution.
 
The prejudices we are encouraged to adopt even influence our perception of looting and looters:

Looters during revolution or pre-revolution: 'Justifiably angry, deprived people'.
Black looters at any time: 'Perennial thieves'.
 
Dumbstar said:
America is making its own open (and closed, Mexican border) concentration camps, just like China with the Uigar Muslims, Israel with the Palestinians, Nepal Burma with Rohingyans, Modi with disowned, etc. Obviously they get worse press, rightfully so, but we should not be blind to where things are headed. A camp does not have to be physical, it can be mental and conceptual too.

No amount of prominent black Americans can change that. Not even a token ex-president.

Edit: just saw Rado's post above.
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Walrus said:
Im just catching up on all this after being shamefully ignorant of what has been going on. Its genuinely a bit upsetting to see some of this - like the twitter thread and the "autistic person lives here" image linked earlier. I dont know what the solution is at this point, and I think its only going to get worse. feck knows where we (they) end up.

One the one hand, the rioting is bad. On the other hand, its understandable, and seeing the difference in policing between certain protests is just another vindication of it, really.
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America is sadly beyond help at this point. It is a complete clusterfeck of a place.
 
Grinner said:
Not at all. The elites have an even tighter grip on power than ever before. It's no contest.
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That much is true, but I was thinking more amongst the people as a whole - boots on the ground, etc.

Outside of the Civil Right's Movement, what have been the biggest mobilizations in the States? The Rodney King riots? Cincinnati, and?

Did anything change of the back of these in the grand scheme?
 
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seriously feck libs, they've done more to prevent racial justice than every klanmember combined
 
Fortitude said:
That much is true, but I was thinking more amongst the people as a whole - boots on the ground, etc.

Outside of the Civil Right's Movement, what have been the biggest mobilizations in the States? The Rodney King riots? Cincinnati, and?

Did anything change of the back of these in the grand scheme?
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Non-whites in America have always been divided and conquered. It's still going on. Black people have always had it worse though. Unfortunately you don't see an MLK, a Malcolm X, a Jesse Jackson on the horizon to galvanize people. I mean, two of those three got taken out as it is.
 
Carolina Red said:
At some point the cost-benefit analysis of having lots of poorly trained officers doing bad things would have to tip the scale towards taking more time to train people, even if it means fewer officers at a given time.
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Yea I’m supportive of more training. Would have to be mandated by each state’s governing police body (like CA P.O.S.T). But honestly i don’t see that as the biggest issue. After the academy training the new officers go to their respective departments. Some small, some big. Some fast-paced, some slow. Some in rich jurisdictions, some in poor, some with mostly white people in their ranks, some with mostly minority officers, etc.
the problem is each department has It’s own culture and policies. The smaller departments are usually very tight-knit and have a certain “mold” they want their officers to fit and you either get with their program or you risk being shunned out and failing the training program. So the issue is there’s no uniformity across all these different departments. There has to be a way to have consistent policies throughout the state or country. Or give the governing police body more power to investigate serious uses of force/shootings.
 
choiboyx012 said:
Yea I’m supportive of more training. Would have to be mandated by each state’s governing police body (like CA P.O.S.T). But honestly i don’t see that as the biggest issue. After the academy training the new officers go to their respective departments. Some small, some big. Some fast-paced, some slow. Some in rich jurisdictions, some in poor, some with mostly white people in their ranks, some with mostly minority officers, etc.
the problem is each department has It’s own culture and policies. The smaller departments are usually very tight-knit and have a certain “mold” they want their officers to fit and you either get with their program or you risk being shunned out and failing the training program. So the issue is there’s no uniformity across all these different departments. There has to be a way to have consistent policies throughout the state or country. Or give the governing police body more power to investigate serious uses of force/shootings.
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Would you agree that by having a low threshold to join the police, that it leads to a higher probability of getting people into the department that would implement such toxic cultures?
 
Grinner said:
Non-whites in America have always been divided and conquered. It's still going on. Black people have always had it worse though. Unfortunately you don't see an MLK, a Malcolm X, a Jesse Jackson on the horizon to galvanize people. I mean, two of those three got taken out as it is.
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Sadly, there's nothing much to add to this. :(
 
Grinner said:
Non-whites in America have always been divided and conquered. It's still going on. Black people have always had it worse though. Unfortunately you don't see an MLK, a Malcolm X, a Jesse Jackson on the horizon to galvanize people. I mean, two of those three got taken out as it is.
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You wanna talk about a guy that is demonized in the place of his birth. White people in Greenville, SC hate that man.
 
choiboyx012 said:
Didn’t know it was that long. It’s a good thing and how it should be really. But I’m assuming those countries have a central, nationalized police force?

Just did a quick google search. So yea it looks like it’s 2-3 years of police university. If so that explains how feasible it is to have a consistent centralized police force and requisite training. Logistically though it just would not work in the US, which is a shame. No city, county, or state can afford to recruit, hire, and send a police recruit to a 2-3 year academy or police university when they need bodies to fill in and hit the streets asap.
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Of course is possible, once you start with 2-3 years, then is a wheel, every quatrimester you would have freshly graduated policemen/women
 
Carolina Red said:
I'm not saying that's the issue with regards to Minnesota. I'm commenting on the discussion that is currently being had in the thread about the stark difference in police training in the US (a few months) vs. some countries in Europe (a couple to a few years).
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If I use the french system, the main difference is that you guys rely on what we call Police Municipale while in France they are not badly trained they are not equal to the Police Nationale which is the actual police. The Police National school last 12 months for the lower ranks and 18 months for officers. During the first 5 years they are not affected where they want but where the Police needs them, so it's not a great idea to act like a complete ass if you want a future move.
 
Sara125 said:
Apparently a lot of the fires have been started by undercover officers
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Your going to need to prove that otherwise i think this should be deleted.

Cant be throwing around unfounded accusations like that
 
Carolina Red said:
Would you agree that by having a low threshold to join the police, that it leads to a higher probability of getting people into the department that would implement such toxic cultures?
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Not exactly, because the “threshold” is different for each department. I can get hired by one department but rejected by another. Some departments are very selective on hiring. I’ve been to testing events years ago in a auditoriums filled with hundreds of fellow applicants, but the dept will only be hiring 4 bodies for the year. Maybe require a college degree? Though many poorer applicants will be disadvantaged. Or make the academy longer is a feasible idea too.

I really don’t know how to fix the toxic cultures prevalent in departments. I do think a generational shift needs to happen. There’s still a lot of “old school” police officers who came on the job in the 80s and 90s before cellphone videos and social media. You can imagine how the culture was back then. Until these guys are gone from the ranks maybe then it will get better?
 
choiboyx012 said:
Not exactly, because the “threshold” is different for each department. I can get hired by one department but rejected by another. Some departments are very selective on hiring. I’ve been to testing events years ago in a auditoriums filled with hundreds of fellow applicants, but the dept will only be hiring 4 bodies for the year. Maybe require a college degree? Though many poorer applicants will be disadvantaged. Or make the academy longer is a feasible idea too.

I really don’t know how to fix the toxic cultures prevalent in departments. I do think a generational shift needs to happen. There’s still a lot of “old school” police officers who came on the job in the 80s and 90s before cellphone videos and social media. You can imagine how the culture was back then. Until these guys are gone from the ranks maybe then it will get better?
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My county requires a bachelor’s degree to apply, and we just had a similar incident that caused protests a few years ago. It only helps so much.
 
4bars said:
Of course is possible, once you start with 2-3 years, then is a wheel, every quatrimester you would have freshly graduated policemen/women
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And where would the academy be? Which cities would they go afterwards? Would their department pay them their full salary/benefits while in training for 2-3 years?
 
choiboyx012 said:
Not exactly, because the “threshold” is different for each department. I can get hired by one department but rejected by another. Some departments are very selective on hiring. I’ve been to testing events years ago in a auditoriums filled with hundreds of fellow applicants, but the dept will only be hiring 4 bodies for the year. Maybe require a college degree? Though many poorer applicants will be disadvantaged. Or make the academy longer is a feasible idea too.

I really don’t know how to fix the toxic cultures prevalent in departments. I do think a generational shift needs to happen. There’s still a lot of “old school” police officers who came on the job in the 80s and 90s before cellphone videos and social media. You can imagine how the culture was back then. Until these guys are gone from the ranks maybe then it will get better?
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Time can't fix this one as new incidents keeps on ramping up the tension.

Time can heal "One" incident, people will forget over time and move on, but not when new and fresh one keeps coming in every months.

Everytime an incident like floyd happens it sets you back for I don't know how long, at his rate you will never have the trust / respect / obedience from the black community and who can blame them.
 
choiboyx012 said:
And where would the academy be? Which cities would they go afterwards? Would their department pay them their full salary/benefits while in training for 2-3 years?
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Every first world country does it. It would be change the police system and US has the resources. I can't understand american exceptionalism. We can't have police academies, we can't get rid of guns, we can't get universal health care, we can't get affordable post-secondary education.

It is possible, there is no will
 
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