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Cristiano Ronaldo - Performances (wums will be thread banned)
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Well done on coming up with a completely non-analogous comparison.
Ha!!!Imagine if we had a squad that scored 57 goals in a season
Almost every game. Why?
Because I wanted to know whether you'd seen his performances in the games vs. the better teams this season and what you thought of them. Some people will possibly check his stats, see 25 goals and think 'yeah, he's at the same level he always was'. But if you look a little closer, you can see that he's scored plenty vs. the weaker teams he's faced but almost non vs. the likes of PSG and the stronger La Liga sides. As I said, the stats don't tell you everything and I haven't seen all of Madrid's games, but I saw them against Atletico, Sevilla, Barcelona and Villarreal and from what I can remember he had little impact. Real lost or drew all of those games.
Now, I wouldn't go as far as to say he's had a 'poor' season because his numbers are still very impressive, but I can see why people are of the opinion that his level has dropped this year and are also questioning his place on the podium of the Ballon d'Or.
You said, 'find me another goal scorer in the world like him will you.' I wasn't sure whether you meant in terms of style of play or just sheer numbers of goals. If it's the latter, I've given you a player who has scored more than any other in 2015 once you exclude pens. Suarez is not the number one penalty taker for Barcelona, but he if had been in 15/16 I'm confident he would now be on around 32 goals instead of 26. In my opinion he also offers more than Ronaldo currently in attack, work rate and is less selfish. Messi in 14/15 scored just 4 goals fewer than Ronaldo's impressive tally of 61. Like Suarez, he his more of team player and contributes more to the team's overall gameplay whilst laying on assist after assist for those around him.
I'm not trying to dumb down Ronaldo's goal scoring achievements here, he's one of the finest goal scorers in the history of the game and will remembered for his consistency at the top level. It shows the standard he's held at, that people can say he's been 'not as good' or even 'poor' despite scoring 25 goals in half a season. But other players are matching or getting close to those high numbers now and that's without the team necessarily being built around them in way it has been for Ronaldo.
There was a program on Dutch TV discussing the Clasicos since 2000 up to last season and man, you just got to appreciate how fecking clinical Ronaldo is. When it comes to scoring goals, he can match Messi toe-to-toe.
.Well he hasn't been performing at the same level he used to for a while already. Statistically he is still great though (Still leading the top goalscorer list in 2015, and still breaking record). Thing is he has been trying to perform and scoring some good goals lately, but I find the criticism on him here was mostly unfair ones (one would have thought he is performing at about Rooney's level and causing problems for his team while reading through this thread).
I've watched many of his game, he wan't that bad at all. Just not a brilliant all round player as Messi or Neymar, but still a brilliant poacher/forward who is still a great threat during an attack move too (For example apart from the first 2 goals he scored, he has also kind of set up the 3rd with him starting the attack move, those aspects of him are often overlooked and underrated here)
I really can't agree with that and I don't think we can discuss how he compared to certain players on this thread but I don't understand the argument that he scores goals but doesn't offer much else to the team. I don't see a situation in which "had Ronaldo been less selfish, Madrid would have won the game" if that is what you're even saying.
The thing is, his inability to affect games outside of his goals is a large part of why Madrid haven't won as much as they possibly could have. When his side are against the ropes and struggling to create things, you expect him to step up and change things but he just cant do it. That's probably why he isn't considered as good as other players despite topping scoring charts every year.
I think this shows a complete lack of understanding of what is important about goal scorers and what makes Ronaldo so special.
2 things, firstly Fergie stated in an interview that he didnt want Ronaldo to track back or be involved in any defending. Even back then Fergie recognised his abilities on attack. Secondly and this relates to why he gets so many so called easy or tap in goals. If you watch the earlier video of of his 57 goals in 2015 take a note of just how many times he is being marked by 1,2 or even 3 players but is able to create enough time and space with his off ball movement to score right under the nose of closely marking defenders. Its so often that its no fluke or down to luck. His positioning on defenders shoulders in such a way that they cant watch the ball and see him at the same time isnt luck but a learned skill. Watch the video and watch how often he is marked tightly by multiple defenders. He is an absolute genius at losing them for half a second at exactly the right moment.
Alan Shearer scored a lot of similar goals simply by being able to move defenders around with the subtlest of off the ball movements to create enough room to score.
Ronaldo's job is to finish things off in the opposition penalty box, its not to create from the middle of the pitch. Its how he has been used by a series of managers. If Madrid havent won as much as they should its not because Ronaldo isnt creating but because they arent creating for Ronaldo.
Ronaldo wont end up as and isnt the best player in the world but he must be close to being the best goal scorer in the world and must be in contention for greatest goal scorer in history.
I know exactly what his role is and I have never stated that I didn't understand that his sole job is to score goals and affect the final third. I also understand that along with some of the best off the ball movement I have seen and great all round finishing, Ronaldo is one of the greatest goal scorers ever. I never refuted that and I don't know why you are implying I did.
I am refuting this argument that because he scores goals he is better then other players who don't score as much as him. Its not true at all. I rate the very best players as guys who can perform without the need of their teammates to be in top form. The players that can win games one their own when their team are struggling. A lot of these players Ronaldo is considered better then because if his goal scoring exploits and so I am comparing him to them. In my opinion, in spite of his stats, his inability to perform without his teammates being in bed form and creating chances for him means I rate him lower then other players who consistently perform at a level of world class but don't score as much. Sure, he is a better goal scorer then players but not a better player in my book. Just like Rinaldinho is a better player then Van Nistelrooy despite the latter scoring way more goals then the former.
Also, I refute your point about him always being a goal scorer only. In his final years at United and his first couple of season at Madrid, I would say he found a good blend of individual ability to affect games and scoring goals.
We will have to agree to disagree.
Disagree on what? You said he isn't the best player in the world bit the best goal scorer, something I have agreed with in my post. You also said that Ronaldo relies on chances being created for him to he effective which is in essence what I said. I have also identified that I think he is a great goal scorer who has great attributes for goal scoring (Off the ball movement, his phenomenal physical attributes and great finishing) which you have also mentioned. What is it here that we are disagreeing about?
I've watched Madrid in full a few times this season, and his overall play has definitely deteriorated. Can barely beat a man as well as he could anymore. I think he finds it a tad harder actually making that yard of space. On countless occassions I've seen him try and make space for a shot on goal, but instead seeing his effort block by the very same defender after failing to actually make the room required.
Statistically, which is a word that's hugely popular in this thread, he's fantastic. It says a lot about a player having these stats despite not playing great. But it does mask a lot. For me, he's no longer in the top 3 players in the world going by this season. For me, maybe he'd just make top 5.
But when it comes to the best goalscorers in the world - then he's still in the top 3, unsure where exactly though.
Statistically, which is a word that's hugely popular in this thread, he's fantastic. It says a lot about a player having these stats despite not playing great. But it does mask a lot. For me, he's no longer in the top 3 players in the world going by this season. For me, maybe he'd just make top 5.
But when it comes to the best goalscorers in the world - then he's still in the top 3, unsure where exactly though.
But its not. Madrid have not been success in recent years due to their defense. Not because of Ronaldo
It's this that I totally disagree with and I don't think I can convince anyone otherwise. Without Ronaldo I firmly believe Madrid would've struggled even worse - they would be far, far behind the Barca team of Pep.
He did produce most of the time though, although it is getting less and less consistent now, but the numbers are still good. And no one can step up and change things in every situation, even Messi (the best benchmark) can't do it all the time too (World Cup finals, Copa America Finals etc).
I think the problem with people is, his game was usually study in detail and depth in every possible way and angle by everyone here, and under such microscope it would be much easier to find fault in his game than other players who you might think is better. The thing is, every defenders and players and even average fans know his game well, yet no one could stop him from doing his stuffs all these years, no one can really find him out yet. That to me is the most amazing thing he did while being overlooked by most here.
I think the criticism in this thread has been fair.
Ronaldo has been very underwhelming recently, especially against stronger teams. Which is strange, because he used to be up for the likes of Atletico, Sevilla, Bilbao, etc. Even as he transitioned from being a wide forward that drove attacks, to striker sitting off the last defender, looking for a chance to ghost into the box, mostly independent of the buildup, he was excellent at killing those sides off on the break, and performing well throughout the 90 minutes.
He is not winning games, as you would expect a player held up with Messi as the best of this era, to do. This calendar year he has been outperformed by Neymar and Suarez for varying intervals of time. For the first time in a long while, his inclusion on the Ballon D'Or podium can be deemed questionable. Not undeserving, but questionable. I'm not sure how Benitez is affecting Ronaldo's play, and I'm not sure if his knee is troubling him.
That being said, I've always maintained it is near insane to blame Ronaldo for Real's sparse trophy levels. Apart from playing in a league with a team many United fans have meekly conceded those 2 CL titles to, due to being "too good", they have been held back by imbalanced teams and naive tactics that have left them a few points or goals too short in the league and Europe.
Who knows where his game goes from here. Hoping he comes back strong in 2016. If not, I wonder how his story will pan out. For a player who has been deemed either the best or second best player in the world for 8 years (!!!), he has been so polarizing, as the last few pages will demonstrate. He probably has the highest variation of classification of any player of the last 50 years, being been placed on every level between Pele and Huntelaar
Ronaldo has been very underwhelming recently, especially against stronger teams. Which is strange, because he used to be up for the likes of Atletico, Sevilla, Bilbao, etc. Even as he transitioned from being a wide forward that drove attacks, to striker sitting off the last defender, looking for a chance to ghost into the box, mostly independent of the buildup, he was excellent at killing those sides off on the break, and performing well throughout the 90 minutes.
He is not winning games, as you would expect a player held up with Messi as the best of this era, to do. This calendar year he has been outperformed by Neymar and Suarez for varying intervals of time. For the first time in a long while, his inclusion on the Ballon D'Or podium can be deemed questionable. Not undeserving, but questionable. I'm not sure how Benitez is affecting Ronaldo's play, and I'm not sure if his knee is troubling him.
That being said, I've always maintained it is near insane to blame Ronaldo for Real's sparse trophy levels. Apart from playing in a league with a team many United fans have meekly conceded those 2 CL titles to, due to being "too good", they have been held back by imbalanced teams and naive tactics that have left them a few points or goals too short in the league and Europe.
Who knows where his game goes from here. Hoping he comes back strong in 2016. If not, I wonder how his story will pan out. For a player who has been deemed either the best or second best player in the world for 8 years (!!!), he has been so polarizing, as the last few pages will demonstrate. He probably has the highest variation of classification of any player of the last 50 years, being been placed on every level between Pele and Huntelaar
So many headers! With the amount of useless crosses we have per game he'd score a few here.
Why would you exclude penalties? They are goals as well.
Excluding our defeats and draws, United has done pretty well this season, I think.
For 2 very simply reasons - Suarez doesn't take penalties in Barca. Also it's (much) easier to score penalties than from open play. NPG is a very well-established parameter used by many sports statistician. Nobody says penalties are not goals, also nobody should argue penalties are easier to score and have high conversion rate. Ronaldo has scored 50/56 penalties in la liga, that's a conversion of close to 90%. His shot conversion is in range of 15-20% over last few seasons. NPG is a viable matric, and nothing wrong in using it.
Boffins and trainspotters suck the romance out of football
Good post.
Then they should have played football in a way that doesn't expose their defence so much. They play a ridiculously high line, with their two fullbacks as wingers yet don't dominate the ball in the same way possession based sides like Barca and Bayern could in recent years which stops teams from running at their defence so much. That's okay against the smaller teams who they can just go and outscore quite easily. But against the best sides this doesn't work. The only time they found the balance was with Mourinho in his second season. Against the bigger sides they would play more counter attacking football, using the pace of their front four to devastating affect.
No they wouldn't though. They would still be second best in the league and arguably would have won the same amount. I'm not discrediting Ronaldo as a player either. In his earlier years he was a match winner consistently. Nowadays though he is not. This is proven by the fact that Madrid rarely see a considerable drop off in quality when he does not play.
Because the poster asked for someone who could match Ronaldo in terms of goal scoring and Suarez isn't Barcelona's number one penalty taker, so a better comparison is to omit them. It's that simple.
But a valiant effort to try and get a green smiley by being needlessly snarky with the second line.
I agree madrid is a circus of a team and very rarely have they ever won a game tactically. They are hilariously disorganized and whenyou have clowns like Ramos and Pepe then your always going to be open defensively. My point is that those tactics have held madrid back not Ronaldo
I disagree with that completely.
I don't care.
I gave you my viewpoint. I don't care if you disagree or not.Yet you posted paragraphs
@shamans When did Madrid have a 'crap' squad that Ronaldo carried?
There, there. No need to get bitter because I disagreed.
I don't what the easiest way to post it is but I'll post the links.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011–12_Real_Madrid_C.F._season This has Madrid's squad for that season.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011–12_FC_Barcelona_season This has Barcelona's squad for that season.
Just look at the two squads. Compare the Barcelona midfield and attack with Madrid's, then take out Ronaldo from Madrid's and compare them again. Explain to me how he wasn't carrying that team or how he was "hindering Madrid" (as some have suggested)
I think you are misinterpreting bitterness with complete apathy for your opinion. Not sure how you managed that but, oh well.
It wasn't so much the carrying part as the 'crap' squad part. Barcelona probably had the better team but look at some of the players in that Madrid side! Khediera, Alonso, Di Maria, Ozil, Benzema, Higuian... there's some fantastic players there.
It seems like a blog might suit you better than a forum.
A blog with the comments section turned off, maybe.
@SirAF - assist.
A no-look assist pass too.
You must be mistaken. He is selfish and puts himself avove the team. He only contributes with goals,don't you know?
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