David Moyes | West Ham in talks with him for managerial job

K2K said:
I think there was a lot of naivety on Sir Alex's part.

He failed to realise just how special he was as a manager and thought any Jim and Jack with enough backing could replicate what he did.

Terrible decision that this was for us.
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He thought he had built the structure under which any manager could work. He'd ingrained himself into the fabric of our coaching setup and all the next manager had to do was come in and steer the ship under a vastly experienced crew. Moyes came in and sacked the crew, hiring in their place a team who could barely keep a dinghy afloat.


Moyes went against every bit of Fergie's advice, it's no wonder he failed.
 
Pexbo said:
He thought he had built the structure under which any manager could work. He'd ingrained himself into the fabric of our coaching setup and all the next manager had to do was come in and steer the ship under a vastly experienced crew. Moyes came in and sacked the crew, hiring in their place a team who could barely keep a dinghy afloat.


Moyes went against every bit of Fergie's advice, it's no wonder he failed.
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Even if Moyes had kept the staff,I doubt he would have been an overall success here.

I think the system Fergie had was perfect for him, but it worked because he was here too. Remove such a vital cog in the machine and replace it with a faulty one and the whole thing crumbles.

Moyes simply didn't have it in him to be United manager.
 
Pexbo said:
He thought he had built the structure under which any manager could work. He'd ingrained himself into the fabric of our coaching setup and all the next manager had to do was come in and steer the ship under a vastly experienced crew. Moyes came in and sacked the crew, hiring in their place a team who could barely keep a dinghy afloat.

Moyes went against every bit of Fergie's advice, it's no wonder he failed.
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I think that is spot on, Fergie had it all ready made for him but Moyes wanted to be his own man. The only problem was he wasn't good enough and nor were his coaching staff.

One of Fergie's biggest strength was he was able to let go. Able to let go of certain aspects of the job and delegate them to people who could do a better job. When he had that Portuguese & Dutch coach under him he knew tactically they were better than him so let them have a greater influence in that area. Moyes thinks he can do it all himself, couldn't let go and has surrounded himself with coaches and media people who reinforce that belief.
 
stevoc said:
Some harsh comments in here, Sunderlands failures in this transfer window have nothing to do with Moyes. It's not his fault he just identifies the players, it's the clubs job to sign them obviously his chairman has let him down on this occasion.

Also them waiting until very late in the window and scrambling around on deadline daly to do the bulk of their business and missing out on players as a result is nothing to do with him either, yes he did it every year at Everton and in his one year at United but it's just a total coincidence not his fault.
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:lol:

If it looks like a turd & smells like a turd.... It's usually a turd!
 
Why does every Moyes thread have to degenerate into dissecting his faults at United? We've done that a hundred times already, move on
 
24 goals in 10 years for a striker is shocking. And hes only 28? Damn.
 
golden_blunder said:
Why does every Moyes thread have to degenerate into dissecting his faults at United? We've done that a hundred times already, move on
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People cannot seem to move on. No matter what he does he will be laughed at. Anichebe may not be a very inspiring signing but I don't understand how this is a joke. A time like Sunderland just signed him as a back up striker for Defoe but green smilies at moysey! He failed at United so now he must be a completely useless manager.
 
There's nothing inherently wrong with what moyes has done since joining Sunderland. He joined late in the window so had concentrated on buying players he knows from Everton and United. Seems sensible to be honest.
 
Wikipedia tells me that he's scored 24 goals in 186 matches. Might work well in terms of holding the ball up, though.
 
I think the reason lots of posters are opinionated on Moyes' decisions at Sunderland thus far is that it's very similar to how he began at United - a club with such different demands and resources, yet with the same patterns of behaviour from him.

At United he came in and dithered in the transfer window, prompting people to speculate that he wasn't being backed financially - same thing happened at Everton, a club who broke their own transfer record the season after he left. At United the club's own transfer record was broken while Moyes was here, & Woodward has shown continually that managers are backed with massive finances at the club...

Yet Moyes did nothing in that initial window, bumbled around chasing Fabregas (& Bale?), and ended up signing Fellaini... a player from his old club, where he also tried to sign Baines in the same window.

And now we see him yet again seemingly only able of drawing in players he's previously found favour with (previous to his unraveling at United) - Januzaj, Mcnair, Pienaar, tried to sign Naismith, and the cherry on top being an unattached striker with 24 goals in 10 years...

Another big, and in my opinion, far more damning similarity, is the immediate lowering of expectations in a manner that after watching him do it at United, is so familar and actually seems quite calculated...

At United, within weeks of taking over the current PL champions and CL semi-finalists, he was claiming that he'd need "6 world class players" in order to win (or challenge?) the CL.

And now within weeks of taking over a club at the other end of the table, he's claiming that he can't get the players in good enough to 'make a difference' at the club - essentially blaming his tools before he's even begun the job.

Exactly the same at both clubs.

At United he was constantly trying to lower expectations. His now famous quotes about 'aspiring to be like City' while managing the current PL champions, 'making it difficult' for Newcastle etc.

At Sunderland he rocks up and announces that the club should expect a relegation battle - this is two games into the season, and a team that ended last season with great momentum and form.

Exactly the same at both clubs.

At each club he's at, he manages to cultivate an image that his job is somehow harder than it appears, and that it isn't his fault if things go wrong - at United it was 'taking over Fergie was an impossible job', 'the squad (of champions) he took over is somehow deceptively weaker than it appears' etc.

And now at Sunderland its, 'no-one would want to sign for Sunderland' - yet in January, Allardyce brought in a handful of players including Defoe and Khazri (who are both still there for Moyes) and turned their season around, with them finding good form.

Exactly the same at both clubs.

Moyes needed to come in there and bring a lift, that's what a manager is paid to do, and instead he's effectively insulted his entire squad (as he did at United) and lowered the expectations of the fanbase (as he did at United) in a manner that would suggest if he fails then it isn't his fault (as he did at United).

It's these similarities that make United fans (and many Everton fans) raise an eyebrow. And also, some United fans still believe/d that perhaps it wasn't his fault that he failed here, and so seeing the same patterns unfurl at Sunderland will cause them to change their minds, and thus feel the need to vent about it.

One thing's for sure - he needs to do a decent job at Sunderland, and if he's going to do that, he'll need to lift spirits, not deflate them. And he'll need to focus on the team and the club, rather than his own career.
 
Moyes is a mid-table master........give him crazy money and he can guarantee mid-table for most clubs albeit with a tumescent dull cautious brand of football...being from Scotland opened up a lot of doors for him that otherwise would not have been opened but fair play to him - being a mid-table master in the premier league is not a bad feat by any means.......He's Mick McCarthy/Alan Curbishly/Tony Pulis/Mark Hughes level manager and that is nothing to be ashamed of
 
JohnnyKills said:
There's nothing inherently wrong with what moyes has done since joining Sunderland. He joined late in the window so had concentrated on buying players he knows from Everton and United. Seems sensible to be honest.
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He's publicly conceded to fighting relegation already.
 
Champagne Football said:
He's Mick McCarthy/Alan Curbishly/Tony Pulis/Mark Hughes level manager and that is nothing to be ashamed of
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This is true.
But it blows my mind to think that a group of people who know more about football than most of the posters on this forum, made the decision to hire him to be MUFC manager.
 
golden_blunder said:
Why does every Moyes thread have to degenerate into dissecting his faults at United? We've done that a hundred times already, move on
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shamans said:
People cannot seem to move on. No matter what he does he will be laughed at. Anichebe may not be a very inspiring signing but I don't understand how this is a joke. A time like Sunderland just signed him as a back up striker for Defoe but green smilies at moysey! He failed at United so now he must be a completely useless manager.
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Lads i have to ask move on from what exactly?

Is there a specific time frame that people should only discuss certain subjects in? Most people are discussing his Sunderland dealings and the similarities to how he operated at United and Everton. Whenever a Moyes discussion pops up we always have people popping in to tell others they should move on, maybe people should heed their own advice and move on themselves and leave people to discuss whatever they want. It is a forum after all and i don't imagine any rules are being broken so i don't see what the problem is.

I personally don't really like a lot of the abuse and snide remarks about Rooney on here either but for the most part i just leave people to it and ignore it. It's easy enough to do and there are many more threads about Rooney than there is Moyes.
 
Didn't realise Anichebe is only 28. Should be at his peak now, but he's always been out of his depth at this level.

Possible he doesn't score at all this season, given his trajectory. He's not the answer at all. They needed a back-up Defoe really, not a third-rate Heskey
 
stevoc said:
Lads i have to ask move on from what exactly?

Is there a specific time frame that people should only discuss certain subjects in? Most people are discussing his Sunderland dealings and the similarities to how he operated at United and Everton. Whenever a Moyes discussion pops up we always have people popping in to tell others they should move on, maybe people should heed their own advice and move on themselves and leave people to discuss whatever they want. It is a forum after all and i don't imagine any rules are being broken so i don't see what the problem is.

I personally don't really like a lot of the abuse and snide remarks about Rooney on here either but for the most part i just leave people to it and ignore it. It's easy enough to do and there are many more threads about Rooney than there is Moyes.
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I'm just voicing my displeasure at it so maybe people see they are needlessly in a Moyes hate mindset and can "move on" from that hate. I would love to analyze how Moyes takes this terrible Sunderland team and discuss the good and bad things he does to them.

Unfortunately, it's difficult to do that because every decision of his is laughed at and compared to his decisions at Man United. I also don't understand why we hate someone who is so much lower in terms of their position in the league and status to us. It's not like we're competing with Sunderland.

I mean that day we made a defensive sub against City and everyone was laughing about it. It may or may not have been the right decision but how is it laughable?

Anyway, I will repeat: I just want people to see that it's more enjoyable to just analyze him at Sunderland rather than laugh at him for everything he does. It would kind of make sense to Laugh at him if he was in competition to us and managing a top 6 team but as it stands he's in a relegation battle which will be quite interesting.
 
Flying_Heckfish said:
Didn't realise Anichebe is only 28. Should be at his peak now, but he's always been out of his depth at this level.

Possible he doesn't score at all this season, given his trajectory. He's not the answer at all. They needed a back-up Defoe really, not a third-rate Heskey
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Not sure who else they could have signed though. I wonder if he would play Januzaj upfront. I won't be very excited about that to be honest. His best position is behind the striker.
 
sunama said:
This is true.
But it blows my mind to think that a group of people who know more about football than most of the posters on this forum, made the decision to hire him to be MUFC manager.
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He was Scottish and a workaholic and that hugely stood in his favour......Utd were hoping to find the new Ferguson/Paisley/Dalglish/Stein/Shankly and the hope was that Moyes was cut from the same cloth as those but I guess we all found out that he was more TK Max than Dolce and Gabbana in cloth terms sadly
 
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shamans said:
Not sure who else they could have signed though. I wonder if he would play Januzaj upfront. I won't be very excited about that to be honest. His best position is behind the striker.
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Someone said upthread that Berbatov is a free agent.. OK so he's not the hard worker for a relegation scrap but there must be a few more players of his profile (similar to Defoe - played at a bigger club and has a decent scoring record) that are currently free agents? Although Anichebe is only 28 he has no pedigree at all
 
Flying_Heckfish said:
Someone said upthread that Berbatov is a free agent.. OK so he's not the hard worker for a relegation scrap but there must be a few more players of his profile (similar to Defoe - played at a bigger club and has a decent scoring record) that are currently free agents? Although Anichebe is only 28 he has no pedigree at all
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Di Natale, Klose, Anelka, might be too old and slow for the Prem mind, but they'd find the net.

Bentdner, Sessegnon, Adebayor, Chamakh, guess they all suck, but for a backup at Sunderland?

Macheda's available! :drool:
 
Sess & Bentdner already had stints at Sunderland didn't they? I don't think either would bag that many goals for them, although you are comparing vs. Anichebe..

Adebayor .. who knows, three month rolling contract maybe? Chamakh, again his record isn't so good in the PL.

The first three could be OK last-gasp options I suppose, but if Defoe did get injured could you imagine them playing 90 mins every week? :lol:
 
shamans said:
People cannot seem to move on. No matter what he does he will be laughed at. Anichebe may not be a very inspiring signing but I don't understand how this is a joke. A time like Sunderland just signed him as a back up striker for Defoe but green smilies at moysey! He failed at United so now he must be a completely useless manager.
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He is!

Rhyme Animal said:
I think the reason lots of posters are opinionated on Moyes' decisions at Sunderland thus far is that it's very similar to how he began at United - a club with such different demands and resources, yet with the same patterns of behaviour from him.

At United he came in and dithered in the transfer window, prompting people to speculate that he wasn't being backed financially - same thing happened at Everton, a club who broke their own transfer record the season after he left. At United the club's own transfer record was broken while Moyes was here, & Woodward has shown continually that managers are backed with massive finances at the club...

Yet Moyes did nothing in that initial window, bumbled around chasing Fabregas (& Bale?), and ended up signing Fellaini... a player from his old club, where he also tried to sign Baines in the same window.

And now we see him yet again seemingly only able of drawing in players he's previously found favour with (previous to his unraveling at United) - Januzaj, Mcnair, Pienaar, tried to sign Naismith, and the cherry on top being an unattached striker with 24 goals in 10 years...

Another big, and in my opinion, far more damning similarity, is the immediate lowering of expectations in a manner that after watching him do it at United, is so familar and actually seems quite calculated...

At United, within weeks of taking over the current PL champions and CL semi-finalists, he was claiming that he'd need "6 world class players" in order to win (or challenge?) the CL.

And now within weeks of taking over a club at the other end of the table, he's claiming that he can't get the players in good enough to 'make a difference' at the club - essentially blaming his tools before he's even begun the job.

Exactly the same at both clubs.

At United he was constantly trying to lower expectations. His now famous quotes about 'aspiring to be like City' while managing the current PL champions, 'making it difficult' for Newcastle etc.

At Sunderland he rocks up and announces that the club should expect a relegation battle - this is two games into the season, and a team that ended last season with great momentum and form.

Exactly the same at both clubs.

At each club he's at, he manages to cultivate an image that his job is somehow harder than it appears, and that it isn't his fault if things go wrong - at United it was 'taking over Fergie was an impossible job', 'the squad (of champions) he took over is somehow deceptively weaker than it appears' etc.

And now at Sunderland its, 'no-one would want to sign for Sunderland' - yet in January, Allardyce brought in a handful of players including Defoe and Khazri (who are both still there for Moyes) and turned their season around, with them finding good form.

Exactly the same at both clubs.

Moyes needed to come in there and bring a lift, that's what a manager is paid to do, and instead he's effectively insulted his entire squad (as he did at United) and lowered the expectations of the fanbase (as he did at United) in a manner that would suggest if he fails then it isn't his fault (as he did at United).

It's these similarities that make United fans (and many Everton fans) raise an eyebrow. And also, some United fans still believe/d that perhaps it wasn't his fault that he failed here, and so seeing the same patterns unfurl at Sunderland will cause them to change their minds, and thus feel the need to vent about it.

One thing's for sure - he needs to do a decent job at Sunderland, and if he's going to do that, he'll need to lift spirits, not deflate them. And he'll need to focus on the team and the club, rather than his own career.
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Well said.
 
shamans said:
I'm just voicing my displeasure at it so maybe people see they are needlessly in a Moyes hate mindset and can "move on" from that hate. I would love to analyze how Moyes takes this terrible Sunderland team and discuss the good and bad things he does to them.

Unfortunately, it's difficult to do that because every decision of his is laughed at and compared to his decisions at Man United. I also don't understand why we hate someone who is so much lower in terms of their position in the league and status to us. It's not like we're competing with Sunderland.
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Come on mate you seriously don't understand why some United fans might hate or dislike Moyes after all the disrespectful shit he spewed while at United and even more since he's left?

Are we all meant to pretend he never managed United and only discuss him as we would the likes of Pardew, Pulis or Howe, of course some will enjoy seeing Moyes fail and like to take the piss out of him. And after having to endure him and his bullshit for a year they have every right to feel that way and every right to voice their displeasure at Moyes.

Moyes is a good manager and and i think he will keep Sunderland up, but while doing that he will do and say many things that are worthy of him having the piss taken out of him.
 
stevoc said:
Come on mate you seriously don't understand why some United fans might hate or dislike Moyes after all the disrespectful shit he spewed while at United and even more since he's left?

Are we all meant to pretend he never managed United and only discuss him as we would the likes of Pardew, Pulis or Howe, of course some will enjoy seeing Moyes fail and like to take the piss out of him. And after having to endure him and his bullshit for a year they have every right to feel that way and every right to voice their displeasure at Moyes.

Moyes is a good manager and and i think he will keep Sunderland up, but while doing that he will do and say many things that are worthy of him having the piss taken out of him.
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I guess I look at things differently. During his failure here I have only felt sorry for him and I hope he reestablishes himself as the manager he was before United and gets his career back on track.
 
golden_blunder said:
Why does every Moyes thread have to degenerate into dissecting his faults at United? We've done that a hundred times already, move on
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Someone should say this to David himself about bringing us up at every opportunity

"David, love, would you like a brew?"
"Pfft...Whatever...I could have had the tea lady make it for me, at Carrington, if I was given more time!"
 
Flying_Heckfish said:
Sess & Bentdner already had stints at Sunderland didn't they? I don't think either would bag that many goals for them, although you are comparing vs. Anichebe..

Adebayor .. who knows, three month rolling contract maybe? Chamakh, again his record isn't so good in the PL.

The first three could be OK last-gasp options I suppose, but if Defoe did get injured could you imagine them playing 90 mins every week? :lol:
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Aye, none are exactly good options, really, just looking at the more eye catching names on the free agent list.

Surprised they couldn't pick up some loan striker during the window, surely the big clubs had some lad that is roughly Prem level and would benefit from regular competition.
 
A more ambitious manager might have gone for Berb. I'm not gonna knock him on this though(yet) because maybe they can't afford his wage demand.

Anichebe... 24 goals in 10 years, but at least they got Jozy Altidore before so it shouldn't be too grueling for the fans :lol:
 
InfiniteBoredom said:
A more ambitious manager might have gone for Berb. I'm not gonna knock him on this though(yet) because maybe they can't afford his wage demand.

Anichebe... 24 goals in 10 years, but at least they got Jozy Altidore before so it shouldn't be too grueling for the fans :lol:
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4 in 17 in the Greek league, 5 in 25 in all comps for PAOK, maybe he's not good enough anymore.

Then again, he'd surely kick the shit out of Anichebe......
 
Rhyme Animal said:
I think the reason lots of posters are opinionated on Moyes' decisions at Sunderland thus far is that it's very similar to how he began at United - a club with such different demands and resources, yet with the same patterns of behaviour from him.

At United he came in and dithered in the transfer window, prompting people to speculate that he wasn't being backed financially - same thing happened at Everton, a club who broke their own transfer record the season after he left. At United the club's own transfer record was broken while Moyes was here, & Woodward has shown continually that managers are backed with massive finances at the club...

Yet Moyes did nothing in that initial window, bumbled around chasing Fabregas (& Bale?), and ended up signing Fellaini... a player from his old club, where he also tried to sign Baines in the same window.

And now we see him yet again seemingly only able of drawing in players he's previously found favour with (previous to his unraveling at United) - Januzaj, Mcnair, Pienaar, tried to sign Naismith, and the cherry on top being an unattached striker with 24 goals in 10 years...

Another big, and in my opinion, far more damning similarity, is the immediate lowering of expectations in a manner that after watching him do it at United, is so familar and actually seems quite calculated...

At United, within weeks of taking over the current PL champions and CL semi-finalists, he was claiming that he'd need "6 world class players" in order to win (or challenge?) the CL.

And now within weeks of taking over a club at the other end of the table, he's claiming that he can't get the players in good enough to 'make a difference' at the club - essentially blaming his tools before he's even begun the job.

Exactly the same at both clubs.

At United he was constantly trying to lower expectations. His now famous quotes about 'aspiring to be like City' while managing the current PL champions, 'making it difficult' for Newcastle etc.

At Sunderland he rocks up and announces that the club should expect a relegation battle - this is two games into the season, and a team that ended last season with great momentum and form.

Exactly the same at both clubs.

At each club he's at, he manages to cultivate an image that his job is somehow harder than it appears, and that it isn't his fault if things go wrong - at United it was 'taking over Fergie was an impossible job', 'the squad (of champions) he took over is somehow deceptively weaker than it appears' etc.

And now at Sunderland its, 'no-one would want to sign for Sunderland' - yet in January, Allardyce brought in a handful of players including Defoe and Khazri (who are both still there for Moyes) and turned their season around, with them finding good form.

Exactly the same at both clubs.

Moyes needed to come in there and bring a lift, that's what a manager is paid to do, and instead he's effectively insulted his entire squad (as he did at United) and lowered the expectations of the fanbase (as he did at United) in a manner that would suggest if he fails then it isn't his fault (as he did at United).

It's these similarities that make United fans (and many Everton fans) raise an eyebrow. And also, some United fans still believe/d that perhaps it wasn't his fault that he failed here, and so seeing the same patterns unfurl at Sunderland will cause them to change their minds, and thus feel the need to vent about it.

One thing's for sure - he needs to do a decent job at Sunderland, and if he's going to do that, he'll need to lift spirits, not deflate them. And he'll need to focus on the team and the club, rather than his own career.
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Great post
 
Earthquake said:
4 in 17 in the Greek league, 5 in 25 in all comps for PAOK, maybe he's not good enough anymore.

Then again, he'd surely kick the shit out of Anichebe......
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Ya, as I posted before, he's been awful. But he's scored as many in his awful years as Anichebe has in his decade-long career :lol:
 
Rhyme Animal said:
I think the reason lots of posters are opinionated on Moyes' decisions at Sunderland thus far is that it's very similar to how he began at United - a club with such different demands and resources, yet with the same patterns of behaviour from him.

At United he came in and dithered in the transfer window, prompting people to speculate that he wasn't being backed financially - same thing happened at Everton, a club who broke their own transfer record the season after he left. At United the club's own transfer record was broken while Moyes was here, & Woodward has shown continually that managers are backed with massive finances at the club...

Yet Moyes did nothing in that initial window, bumbled around chasing Fabregas (& Bale?), and ended up signing Fellaini... a player from his old club, where he also tried to sign Baines in the same window.

And now we see him yet again seemingly only able of drawing in players he's previously found favour with (previous to his unraveling at United) - Januzaj, Mcnair, Pienaar, tried to sign Naismith, and the cherry on top being an unattached striker with 24 goals in 10 years...

Another big, and in my opinion, far more damning similarity, is the immediate lowering of expectations in a manner that after watching him do it at United, is so familar and actually seems quite calculated...

At United, within weeks of taking over the current PL champions and CL semi-finalists, he was claiming that he'd need "6 world class players" in order to win (or challenge?) the CL.

And now within weeks of taking over a club at the other end of the table, he's claiming that he can't get the players in good enough to 'make a difference' at the club - essentially blaming his tools before he's even begun the job.

Exactly the same at both clubs.

At United he was constantly trying to lower expectations. His now famous quotes about 'aspiring to be like City' while managing the current PL champions, 'making it difficult' for Newcastle etc.

At Sunderland he rocks up and announces that the club should expect a relegation battle - this is two games into the season, and a team that ended last season with great momentum and form.

Exactly the same at both clubs.

At each club he's at, he manages to cultivate an image that his job is somehow harder than it appears, and that it isn't his fault if things go wrong - at United it was 'taking over Fergie was an impossible job', 'the squad (of champions) he took over is somehow deceptively weaker than it appears' etc.

And now at Sunderland its, 'no-one would want to sign for Sunderland' - yet in January, Allardyce brought in a handful of players including Defoe and Khazri (who are both still there for Moyes) and turned their season around, with them finding good form.

Exactly the same at both clubs.

Moyes needed to come in there and bring a lift, that's what a manager is paid to do, and instead he's effectively insulted his entire squad (as he did at United) and lowered the expectations of the fanbase (as he did at United) in a manner that would suggest if he fails then it isn't his fault (as he did at United).

It's these similarities that make United fans (and many Everton fans) raise an eyebrow. And also, some United fans still believe/d that perhaps it wasn't his fault that he failed here, and so seeing the same patterns unfurl at Sunderland will cause them to change their minds, and thus feel the need to vent about it.

One thing's for sure - he needs to do a decent job at Sunderland, and if he's going to do that, he'll need to lift spirits, not deflate them. And he'll need to focus on the team and the club, rather than his own career.
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great post
 
JohnnyKills said:
There's nothing inherently wrong with what moyes has done since joining Sunderland. He joined late in the window so had concentrated on buying players he knows from Everton and United. Seems sensible to be honest.
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That would be right if we didn't know Moyes but we do and are seeing him repeat the same mistakes he made here. You say he started late at Sunderland but for a guy who has been jobless for a long period where is the preparation? I mean a jobless football manager should spend his gardening leave plotting his next move through identifying potential signings and studying various tactical approaches (admittedly we can't see the results of the latter so early in the season). For him to fall back on the likes of Anichebe in this information era highlights a massive weakness in imagination and preparation.
 
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