Dele Alli is England's best young midfielder playing in Turkey

[Righteous Steps]

Pogba was the talk of world football at 20 years old. Making Alli out to be ahead of the Pogba curb at the same age is ridiculous.
Alli is Fowler, Collymore or Ian Wright. Top names that are only top names in the bubble that is the Premiership. Blood and thunder and all box play.
Pogba is a Zidane with one season scoring over 10 goals in his career. An Iniesta type. The game runs through him that can't be explained through stats.
He's the world class player that is lauded at Barca or Madrid while the English league bow at the feet of David Silva or KDB.
That's how big his signing is. Pogba v Alli is Neymar v Hazard.
There's simply a level between excellent and elite.

 

[Sweech]

Because his arguments are usually fecking rubbish.

So it's clearly a great use of everyone's time having a discussion with someone whose opinion will never change isn't it?

 

[WhoDaGOAT]

Wouldn't even compare him to Lingard, 2 completely different players both positionally and ability wise.

If you actually watch, they are both constantly moving around and trying to make runs beyond the defence. Both are good technically in and around the goal, without being the easiest on the eye. But still effective. Ali finishes off his chances more frequently and has a nastier streak in him, which gives him an edge.

 

[Dobbs]

With which point should we agree? His "Lol" when we say Mata and Mkhi are both way agead of Alli at this stage? Or that he would not displace either at United currently and Glaston laughing at that as well as if we are talking about Messi here and not some youngster at Spurs who is yet to prove everything.

Well for instance that Pogba is better in every single aspect apart from goals. I don't see what's wrong with Glaston pointing out that last season the statistics say that isn't true.

I don't see what's wrong with him saying Spurs will finish above us.

Or that at 19 Alli has shown more than Pogba had. I'm not sure I agree but the gap between them at that age is hardly huge.

It's become a bit of a bandwagon though. Some posters are just giving him stick to ingratiate themselves. School playground stuff.

 

[NK86]

Only if you include cup competitions, where the opposition, home or away draw, and the number of rounds, all depend a lot on the luck of the draw.

In the league, where every teams plays every other team home and away, Alli has scored 20 Prem goals compared to Martial's 13.

PS. The numbers for Mata and Mkhi in the last 1.5 seasons (which is how long Alli has been playing in a top flight league) do not blow Alli out of the water.

Martial has scored more than Alli. Period. Now the competition and other things will be brought in to again dilute the argument. As for Mkhitariyan, he has not played much this season and if we only compare last season or the number of games from last season to this one, he is far ahead of Alli. It is laughable you think Alli is better or as good as Mkhitariyan is now.

 

[NK86]

Well for instance that Pogba is better in every single aspect apart from goals. I don't see what's wrong with Glaston pointing out that last season the statistics say that isn't true.

I don't see what's wrong with him saying Spurs will finish above us.

Or that at 19 Alli has shown more than Pogba had. I'm not sure I agree but the gap between them at that age is hardly huge.

It's become a bit of a bandwagon though. Some posters are just giving him stick to ingratiate themselves. School playground stuff.

He has been wumming so much that the stuff which he writes to make sense hardly gets noticed. For those points you made, I can show you so many more where he is purposely trying to rile United fans on a United board. So you cannot just say we should look past all that and take out a magnifying glass to try to notice a couple of half decent points he makes.

 

[balaks]

Martial has scored more than Alli. Period. Now the competition and other things will be brought in to again dilute the argument. As for Mkhitariyan, he has not played much this season and if we only compare last season or the number of games from last season to this one, he is far ahead of Alli. It is laughable you think Alli is better or as good as Mkhitariyan is now.

Eh? Martial is a forward - I'd be worried if he didn't score more than Alli tbh.

Anyway this thread has turned into a alli vs Pogba/Martial thread which is incredibly boring and also irrelevant.

 

[NK86]

I see. You don't like the stats for last season, which is was Alli's first and only complete season so far in the top flight, so you want to limit your stats claim just to this season so far. How convenient ... yet I'm the one straying from arguments I'm uncomfortable with?

As for peer ratings, Alli's award was actually voted by his peers (fellow professionals). Pogba's Golden Boy award wasn't.

You are taking the piss here. So for Martial you only want to compare PL goals but for Pogba you want to compare last season. Make up your mind.

 

[NK86]

Eh? Martial is a forward - I'd be worried if he didn't score more than Alli tbh.

Anyway this thread has turned into a alli vs Pogba/Martial thread which is incredibly boring and also irrelevant.

Martial plays on the wing for us and Alli plays almost like a second striker. So why is it so far fetched to compare their goal scoring record?

 

[Dobbs]

He has been wumming so much that the stuff which he writes to make sense hardly gets noticed. For those points you made, I can show you so many more where he is purposely trying to rile United fans on a United board. So you cannot just say we should look past all that and take out a magnifying glass to try to notice a couple of half decent points he makes.

Nah that's just excuse making. Just read the posts and agree/disagree accordingly.

 

[NK86]

Nah that's just excuse making. Just read the posts and agree/disagree accordingly.

If you read his last few posts, you will understand what I mean. Don't even have to search. They are on this page itself.

 

[Kraftwerker]

I see. You don't like the stats for last season, which is was Alli's first and only complete season so far in the top flight, so you want to limit your stats claim just to this season so far. How convenient ... yet I'm the one straying from arguments I'm uncomfortable with?

As for peer ratings, Alli's award was actually voted by his peers (fellow professionals). Pogba's Golden Boy award wasn't.

Include last year if you want. I'm comparing like-for-like same league performance, which we can only do on this season. Playing in the same league against the same opponents, for teams at a similar level, Pogba has him beat across nearly every metric.

Whatever the source, winning best young player in Europe is more prestigious than PL young player of the year. If Alli had won it I can only imagine how heavily it would feature in your weak as piss arguments.

In any case, Pogba's World XI award was voted for by his peers around the world. That's the one you seem to struggle with. Pogba apparently doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the top bracket of midfielders despite the fact his peers have voted him so two years in a row. How is that?

 

[GlastonSpur]

He has been wumming so much that the stuff which he writes to make sense hardly gets noticed. For those points you made, I can show you so many more where he is purposely trying to rile United fans on a United board. So you cannot just say we should look past all that and take out a magnifying glass to try to notice a couple of half decent points he makes.

"Purposely trying to rile United fans on a United board" is your translation of my countering a variety of silly claims made by some folk on here, of which there have so many that I've lost count. But to give just a few examples, and quite apart from Alli vs Pogba, at various times these have included claims that:

* Shaw is a better LB than Rose.
* Valencia is a better RB than Walker.
* Rafael is a better RB than Walker
* Kane is a one-season wonder.
* Spurs will never finish in the top 4.
* The plans for a new stadium are "pie in the sky".
* Spurs will never make it out of the CL group stage (in our first CL season), and later, Spurs will never make it beyond the first CL knockout stage, and then later ... etc.
* Pochettino will be sacked before LvG.
* Spurs needed to focus on signing new first XI players in the summer, rather than improving squad depth.
* Spurs will never finish above United.
* United can sign any Spurs player they want, when they want.

The list goes on ...

 

[Pexbo]

"Purposely trying to rile United fans on a United board" is your translation of my countering a variety of silly claims made by some folk on here, of which there have so many that I've lost count. But to give just a few examples, and quite apart from Alli vs Pogba, at various times these have included claims that:

* Shaw is a better LB than Rose.
* Valencia is a better RB than Walker.
* Rafael is a better RB than Walker
* Kane is a one-season wonder.
* Spurs will never finish in the top 4.
* The plans for a new stadium are "pie in the sky".
* Spurs will never make it out of the CL group stage (in our first CL season), and later, Spurs will never make it beyond the first CL knockout stage, and then later ... etc.
* Pochettino will be sacked before LvG.
* Spurs needed to focus on signing new first XI players in the summer, rather than improving squad depth.
* Spurs will never finish above United.
* United can sign any Spurs player they want, when they want.

The list goes on ...

You've made a lot of those up though to be fair.

 

[GlastonSpur]

Include last year if you want. I'm comparing like-for-like same league performance, which we can only do on this season. Playing in the same league against the same opponents, for teams at a similar level, Pogba has him beat across nearly every metric.

Whatever the source, winning best young player in Europe is more prestigious than PL young player of the year. If Alli had won it I can only imagine how heavily it would feature in your weak as piss arguments.

In any case, Pogba's World XI award was voted for by his peers around the world. That's the one you seem to struggle with. Pogba apparently doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the top bracket of midfielders despite the fact his peers have voted him so two years in a row. How is that?

This season is barely past the halfway stage. And even then, in the most important metric of all - league goals scored - Alli is miles ahead.

Your wish to exclude last season is nothing more than convenience, especially since you'd expect Pogba to do even better than this season, seeing as (compared to Alli), he was playing in a weaker league for a dominant team.

Pogba's World IX inclusion I'll give you. But then he was older than Alli is now.

 

[GlastonSpur]

You've made a lot of those up though to be fair.

I really haven't.

 

[Billy Blaggs]

That's a bit of a stretch claiming he gets away with murder when you just blatantly broke forum rules openly calling him a "cnut".

I don't care for him myself and in fact the Spurs forum I like best (Spurscommunity) can't stand how he acts here either, but he gets an absolute dogs abuse here being blatantly called names etc. It's gross. People need to seriously grow up. Do you think you can have an objective productive discussion with him? No? Then why bother? What are you getting out of having this discussion with him and calling him names?

He does but he brings it on tbh.

 

[Pexbo]

I really haven't.

Citations please.

 

[GlastonSpur]

Citations please.

I can't be arsed. Do you the leg work yourself if it bothers that you that much.

 

[RedFish]

This season is barely past the halfway stage. And even then, in the most important metric of all - league goals scored - Alli is miles ahead.

Your wish to exclude last season is nothing more than convenience, especially since you'd expect Pogba to do even better than this season, seeing as (compared to Alli), he was playing in a weaker league for a dominant team.

Pogba's World IX inclusion I'll give you. But then he was older than Alli is now.

It's World XI.

 

[Kag]

So it's clearly a great use of everyone's time having a discussion with someone whose opinion will never change isn't it?

I'm merely highlighting inconsistencies in the arguments. Stats this, stats that, until it no longer suits...

 

[Dobbs]

You've made a lot of those up though to be fair.

Which one's are made up? Not sure how you can possibly know this unless you've monitored every argument Glaston has dealt with.

 

[GlastonSpur]

It's World XI.

Yeah, but Pogba is so amazing that after him they thought it'd just be an anti-climax to vote in two more players ... so they didn't bother.

 

[Kag]

"Purposely trying to rile United fans on a United board" is your translation of my countering a variety of silly claims made by some folk on here, of which there have so many that I've lost count. But to give just a few examples, and quite apart from Alli vs Pogba, at various times these have included claims that:

* Shaw is a better LB than Rose.
* Valencia is a better RB than Walker.
* Rafael is a better RB than Walker
* Kane is a one-season wonder.
* Spurs will never finish in the top 4.
* The plans for a new stadium are "pie in the sky".
* Spurs will never make it out of the CL group stage (in our first CL season), and later, Spurs will never make it beyond the first CL knockout stage, and then later ... etc.
* Pochettino will be sacked before LvG.
* Spurs needed to focus on signing new first XI players in the summer, rather than improving squad depth.
* Spurs will never finish above United.
* United can sign any Spurs player they want, when they want.

The list goes on ...

You trawl around this forum trying to find specific examples whereby a Spurs player may not have been assessed quite how you like. On a Manchester United forum, may I point out.

On very few occasions, if ever, do you engage in conversation surrounding the hordes of positive posts relevant to Spurs and its players. The Harry Kane thread is packed full of praise (amongst a few doubters) yet the only posts that are remotely of interest to you are the ones that don't quite highlight just how brilliant these Spurs players are.

You then use these posts to project an agenda like the one you have above. "Well United fans once said that..." It's a United forum, of course some of our fans might prefer Antonio Valencia to Kyle Walker. It's hardly fecking outrageous.

Personally, I think your entire input into this forum is fundamentally pathetic.

 

[balaks]

This thread has quickly turned into an even worse one than the Spurs thread - something I didn't think possible.

 

[africanspur]

You've made a lot of those up though to be fair.

I can't remember the lvg one but I've definitely seen the other ones on here (sometimes as prevalent opinions across the board). You can add the whole Bale Nani stuff too.

Which tbh, is fair enough. It's a man utd board, you're going to lean towards your players, your team and club. That is completely expected so I'm not sure why it's worth getting wound up for in general tbh, for anyone.

It's become a self perpetuating cycle from all sides and it makes a lot of threads unreadable and boring. It's overall just generally quite childish too (not saying you specifically).

 

[Kraftwerker]

This season is barely past the halfway stage. And even then, in the most important metric of all - league goals scored - Alli is miles ahead.

Your wish to exclude last season is nothing more than convenience, especially since you'd expect Pogba to do even better than this season, seeing as (compared to Alli), he was playing in a weaker league for a dominant team.

Pogba's World IX inclusion I'll give you. But then he was older than Alli is now.

Very debatable that goals are the most important metric for a midfielder. You can't seem to square that with Xavi/Iniesta/Zidane being better players than the much more prolific Frank Lampard.

Pogba being ahead on every other metric in a like for like season is very telling about who is the better 'player' obviously.

I don't wish to exclude last season. After all it was last season's performances which gave Pogba enough recognition to be voted 3rd best midfielder in the world.

He was marginally older than Dele Alli when he got World XI status (and the same age when he won Golden Boy). Essentially Alli would need to gain these awards fairly sharpish to match him. He'll be ineligible for Golden Boy in April.

 

[GlastonSpur]

You trawl around this forum trying to find specific examples whereby a Spurs player may not have been assessed quite how you like. On a Manchester United forum, may I point out.

On very few occasions, if ever, do you engage in conversation surrounding the hordes of positive posts relevant to Spurs and its player. The Harry Kane thread is packed full of praise (amongst a few doubters) yet the only posts that are remotely of interest to you are the ones that don't quite highlight just how brilliant these Spurs players are.

You then use these posts to project an agenda like the one you have above. "Well United fans once said that..." It's a United forum, of course some of our fans might prefer Antonio Valencia to Kyle Walker. It's hardly fecking outrageous.

Personally, I think your entire input into this forum is fundamentally pathetic.

Since most of them have occurred in threads that have been specifically about Spurs or Spurs players, not much "trawling" been needed.

As for the rest, I find that it's precisely when I do make a positive post about a Spurs player that the attacks come wading in. A case in point is my saying that Alli at 19 has shown as much potential as Pogba at the same age.

For myself I find three things pathetic:

1) The great lengths that some posters go to do try and dig out posts from years ago, all in an effort to find something "wrong" that another poster has said.
2) The degree to which some posters like to make personal attacks on other posters, rather than focusing on what the poster has actually said.
3) The degree to which some posters wilfully make false claims about what another poster has said.

 

[Jib]

At 20 years, Pogba puts Marchisio on the bench...

 

[Massive Spanner]

I can't remember the lvg one but I've definitely seen the other ones on here (sometimes as prevalent opinions across the board). You can add the whole Bale Nani stuff too.

Which tbh, is fair enough. It's a man utd board, you're going to lean towards your players, your team and club. That is completely expected so I'm not sure why it's worth getting wound up for in general tbh, for anyone.

It's become a self perpetuating cycle from all sides and it makes a lot of threads unreadable and boring. It's overall just generally quite childish too (not saying you specifically).

I wasn't here at the time but Nani was a better player than Bale the first year Bale won POTY so I'm sure it was justified. There's no doubt that Bale became a better player as he progressed and Nani regressed but I believe it's stuff like this that's why these debates get blown out of proportion. I doubt many Utd fans would've still said Nani was as good as Bale circa 2013, only when he WAS a better player.

 

[Massive Spanner]

You've made a lot of those up though to be fair.

No I would said he's chosen to remember the one or two idiots who said it amidst the masses who laughed it off and is now claiming it was a common consensus.

 

[africanspur]

I wasn't here at the time but Nani was a better player than Bale the first year Bale won POTY so I'm sure it was justified. There's no doubt that Bale became a better player as he progressed and Nani regressed but I believe it's stuff like this that's why these debates get blown out of proportion. I doubt many Utd fans would've still said Nani was as good as Bale circa 2013, only when he WAS a better player.

The debate wasn't just that by any means.

Whether Nani was a better player or not was a subjective matter. I would argue not. On here however, it was treated by the majority of the board as if someone was trying to claim Chris brunt is a better player than Ronaldo.

It was also said by quite a few that Nani had already reached a higher level that season than Bales ceiling which obviously has turned out to be.... Incorrect.

As for your next question, the majority of those were by no means minority views.

Which again, as I said, it fair enough. You're hardly going to go on a man utd forum and expect the posters to think that Spurs players are better than the majority of theirs or anything like that.

But I think it's slightly disingenuous to say that he has merely picked out one or two posters comments. Regardless of whether the method he's then decided to reply has been the correct one or not.

 

[Dobbs]

I can't remember the lvg one but I've definitely seen the other ones on here (sometimes as prevalent opinions across the board). You can add the whole Bale Nani stuff too.

Which tbh, is fair enough. It's a man utd board, you're going to lean towards your players, your team and club. That is completely expected so I'm not sure why it's worth getting wound up for in general tbh, for anyone.

It's become a self perpetuating cycle from all sides and it makes a lot of threads unreadable and boring. It's overall just generally quite childish too (not saying you specifically).

Good post.

It'd be better for everyone if posters just accepted debating with fans from other clubs will cause unfathomable differences of opinions. As United fans we rarely agree so with a Spurs fan what do you expect.

Hopefully we can then get on with proper footballing chat.

 

[Massive Spanner]

The debate wasn't just that by any means.

Whether Nani was a better player or not was a subjective matter. I would argue not. On here however, it was treated by the majority of the board as if someone was trying to claim Chris brunt is a better player than Ronaldo.

It was also said by quite a few that Nani had already reached a higher level that season than Bales ceiling which obviously has turned out to be.... Incorrect.

As for your next question, the majority of those were by no means minority views.

Which again, as I said, it fair enough. You're hardly going to go on a man utd forum and expect the posters to think that Spurs players are better than the majority of theirs or anything like that.

But I think it's slightly disingenuous to say that he has merely picked out one or two posters comments. Regardless of whether the method he's then decided to reply has been the correct one or not.

I think Nani was blatantly a better player in those 18 months but I guess that leads to your point. And fair enough, as I said I wasn't here so I'll take your word on that one.

I disagree with the last paragraph though, some of those points he's claiming just seem absurd

 

[Dobbs]

No I would said he's chosen to remember the one or two idiots who said it amidst the masses who laughed it off and is now claiming it was a common consensus.

He said "some folk" had made such claims. Never mentioned a common concensus. Check the post.

Let's stop making shit up in order to criticse a poster and get back to the point of the forum.

 

[Massive Spanner]

He said "some folk" had made such claims. Never mentioned a common concensus. Check the post.

Let's stop making shit up in order to criticse a poster and get back to the point of the forum.

It sounds like he's the one making shit up.

 

[7even]

Dele Alli is on his way to become a real star but soon he will probabaly end up in the same position as Modric and Bale. His club doesn't match his level of talent.

Tottenham reminds me of the car manufacturer Opel. You get quality for a decent price but if you want prestige and extra luxury you choose one of the big three. Spurs is a perfect platform for a young talent but not the final destination if you want to end up in the absolute top.

I can see Dele Alli move to a bigger club in a season or two. Probably at the same time as Pochettino move on.

 

[africanspur]

I think Nani was blatantly a better player in those 18 months but I guess that leads to your point. And fair enough, as I said I wasn't here so I'll take your word on that one.

I disagree with the last paragraph though, some of those points he's claiming just seem absurd

Fair enough. Like I said I don't agree and I think that was a big part of the disagreement.

At the time I think we were the only two Spurs fans on here. And the dominant discourse on here was that Nani was a uch better player, Bale was a one trick pony and that Rafael had kept him in his pocket (he had) and therefore he wasn't that great.

I discussed a bit but frankly I've never been that interested in 'football banter' and long drawn out discussions with large groups of people. Glaston... Obviously had a very different experience.

And like I said, those points he's made are 100% not made up. I'm not the most active poster on here (hence my post count) but I've seen all and engaged in many of those points on here.

Overall though, it's just childish for this carry on to pervade so many threads on this board and it makes many Spurs threads on here boring.

 

[Prodigal7]

I see. You don't like the stats for last season, which is was Alli's first and only complete season so far in the top flight, so you want to limit your stats claim just to this season so far. How convenient ... yet I'm the one straying from arguments I'm uncomfortable with?

As for peer ratings, Alli's award was actually voted by his peers (fellow professionals). Pogba's Golden Boy award wasn't.

Journalists for the most part are far more impartial than English club captains who are clearly going to vote for their national team mate. The PFA is a farce and so is the Golden Boy award to a large extent. You're ignoring information which doesn't suit your argument again.

 

[africanspur]

Good post.

It'd be better for everyone if posters just accepted debating with fans from other clubs will cause unfathomable differences of opinions. As United fans we rarely agree so with a Spurs fan what do you expect.

Hopefully we can then get on with proper footballing chat.

Exactly. Glaston has clearly rubbed a lot of people up the wrong way.

But in a way, it becomes mob mentality and a bandwagon to attack him, even when he's putting forward otherwise reasonable views.

There are other fans on here who post in a not dissimilar way (Liverpool, real Madrid blah blah) but nobody really gets the same vitriol as he does.

I don't really get it, for anyone. Why waste so much energy arguing with such ferocity on a football board? I like reading and debating opposing views on here from lots of different fans. I don't like witch hunts which last for pages on end.

Just discuss football and if it's becoming that difficult to talk with someone else, just move on.