Di Maria Has Earned Start Against City

Raoul said:
Young was quite effective with his stumbling runs into the left end of the box which caused them a lot of problems. Not saying Young is a better player, just that he has at a minimum, been as effective as AdM in terms of unlocking the left wing for us.
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Lemme just say again that I'm a big fan of what Young has done this year, I'm not trying to suggest Young wouldn't merit a start. It's a hard decision imo, and might be decided by tactics rather than form.

My sense was obviously that di Maria has worked his way back into a starting position, but I won't be bothered, or concerned, in the least if he doesn't start.

Perhaps I'll watch the Villa game again and focus on just those two, I'm certainly willing to consider the possibility I'm dead wrong.
 
united_99 said:
He didn't play well at all in the last two games. No attacking contribution at all. We are Man United, not Stoke. And it was a good decision to take him off and replace him with Di Maria in the last game.

United is probably the only top club where there could be such a discussion.
Or can you imagine such a discussion on a RM forum when Di Maria was there?
"Who to play, Arbeloa or Di Maria?"
Oh and Arbeloa at least is a World and European champion.
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Young played very well. It's not just him but how that flank performed as a more direct/incisive unit than the constant (and eventually incisive and effective) triangulations on the other flank.

The balance is right, Di María would do well not to think like you but trying to work out what is required of him because skills and talent-wise no one disputes he would be a better option than Young. It's just Young keeps it ticking and Di Maria isn't doing so at the moment.
 
gooDevil said:
Lemme just say again that I'm a big fan of what Young has done this year, I'm not trying to suggest Young wouldn't merit a start. It's a hard decision imo, and might be decided by tactics rather than form.

My sense was obviously that di Maria has worked his way back into a starting position, but I won't be bothered, or concerned, in the least if he doesn't start.

Perhaps I'll watch the Villa game again and focus on just those two, I'm certainly willing to consider the possibility I'm dead wrong.
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You're probably right. His previous omission was because we did well v Spurs and this last one was down to the International break, so he may well get a start.
 
I wonder who City would rather play against, Young or DiMaria?

Im not too keen on moving away from the formula that has worked so far.
 
Ixion said:
I think you're not giving credit where its due. And to be clear my average rating to Young this season according to his performance thread is 7.0 while Di Maria I've given 6.2 overall, and I've praised Young plenty of times and think he deserves to have been starting. It's just that pass from Di Maria to Mata was a good one, and his little bit of movement to accept the pass from Mata in the first place. Whether its by luck or skill Di Maria seems to find his man quite often.
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That's not true though, he doesn't find his man "often". In fact, he's very hit and miss with his passing, it's just that, the time he finds his man, they make something out of it. After that pass to Mata, he went on to play like an retard for the rest of the game, misplacing easy passes and even catching the ball one time when it was still in play, I know he's a great player, but the arguments for him to start is very weak for now.
 
I am going to adopt a totally radical approach...

I will let LVG, a successful football manager who seems to have greatly improved our team play and motivated and taught a number of individuals to perform to higher levels, decide how he wants to set the team out and plan subs.

I think if Di Maria plays he will have to be gelling within an overall team strategy in a way we have not yet seen
 
antohan said:
Young played very well. It's not just him but how that flank performed as a more direct/incisive unit than the constant (and eventually incisive and effective) triangulations on the other flank.

The balance is right, Di María would do well not to think like you but trying to work out what is required of him because skills and talent-wise no one disputes he would be a better option than Young. It's just Young keeps it ticking and Di Maria isn't doing so at the moment.
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Everyone knows Di Maria has to improve his form, but even on top form he is never going to provide the "safety" and "balance" Young does. So maybe we should always keep Young then? As far as I am concerned we already have a gk, 4 ppl in defence and a DM who mainly should be responsible for defending. That doesn't mean that the defenders aren't allowed to attack or the attackers to defend, but when the main argument to include an attacking player is his defensive and safety approach then it's not what I want to see at all.
 
We're too light on creativity as we line up now. Mata on the wing can only do so much, Fellaini is there for the physical presence, and Young is a no-assist machine, so we need something more, and Di Maria for Young provides that extra we need. He seemed to be focused on keeping possession against Villa, so he shouldn't be as risky as Di Maria a month a go.
Against Liverpool for example, in the first half which we dominated, we only created one chance. Liverpool, who were abysmal, should have scored through Lallana. Against Villa we struggled with creating chances after a strong start.
Young was lively against Villa but in the end he managed to create very little, we have enough cover to allow Di Maria in the front four.
 
gooDevil said:
My argument is that di Maria has been a more crucial part of that form than Young in the last two games, and thus a switch is warranted.
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Well I completely disagree with that. Whilst he has had an assist in each of the last two games, the team has overall looked weaker once he came on.
Yes, I think Young has been better than Di Maria in the last two games - a big part of it is the defensive contribution which has made our left flank and triangle of Blind/Young/Fellaini a very strong combo in both attack and defense.
 
Di Maria represents a high risk high reward factor for LVG. He gives away a lot of possession which against high quality opposition is very dangerous, however he usually contributes at least one telling pass or dribble. He won't start but he will probably come on around 60/65 depending on the circumstances. Could be very useful against tiring or comfortable defenders.
 
Stats show Young is better home and overall throughout the season. That includes possession. Away, Di Maria is better.

http://www.whoscored.com/Teams/32

Defensive, Young is way better than Di Maria, offensive, Di Maria is better. Passing Di Maria is top because of his assists. Possession, Young is better.
 
It's about balance for Van Gaal and in that case, I look at it as in one wide man hugs the touchline whereas the other drifts in. Di Maria is good at the latter, I don't think he's that good at staying out wide which is why he was playing instead of Mata and not Young. Only way I see him coming on is instead of Mata or Fellaini if Mata goes to the middle to do Fellaini's job. I can't see either happening because of how valuable Mata and Fellaini have been.
 
izec said:
I want him to start. Big game player for big games.
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Genuine question: which big games for us, did Di Maria do very well in?
To my mind his best performances have come against the likes of QPR and bottom of the table teams.
I could be wrong of course.
 
sunama said:
Genuine question: which big games for us, did Di Maria do very well in?
To my mind his best performances have come against the likes of QPR and bottom of the table teams.
I could be wrong of course.
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I dont know, dont think he had a great agme against any big side, but he had no confidence whatsoever in that period. When he played earlier, we still havent found our mojo. Now, we are a different team. He would now look better if given a start. We were relying too much on him previously, i think he really deserves a start. Young did ok, but ultimately there is no end product, just like Valencia on the other side.
 
gooDevil said:
I'm really surprised by the Caf's response, I thought the overwhelming majority would want di Maria to start.

Perhaps I need to read the "Why do United supporters hate di Maria" thread.
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I'm sure you're not being serious, but not wanting him to start doesn't mean we hate him.
 
It's hardly hate or anything surprising that people actually care about team's performance and good above particular player's interest.
 
Reading this thread you would have thought Young is absolutely ripping the league apart. He did okay, but nowhere near the undroppable status that people here are banging on.
 
dasty said:
Reading this thread you would have thought Young is absolutely ripping the league apart. He did okay, but nowhere near the undroppable status that people here are banging on.
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He's not undroppable, but neither is Di Maria. Currently Young plays possession football better than Di Maria and that's why some of us prefer him over Di Maria.
 
So let me pose a question. Ball drops to our left winger in the box in the 90th minute, 12 yards out, need to score to equalise against City, who would you want it to fall to, Young or Di Maria?

Answer for me is Young.
 
If there was a game to have Di Maria get some confidence and earn his starting spot, then it was vs Villa. Young and Blind link up very well so there is no point in changing that against City. The only question should be what centreback pairing LvG opts for.
 
dasty said:
Reading this thread you would have thought Young is absolutely ripping the league apart. He did okay, but nowhere near the undroppable status that people here are banging on.
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You're absolutely right, he's not undroppable. But neither does Di Maria "deserve" to come back in. He's had a couple of assists in his last two games, and yes, he does put in dangerous balls. But he'll also give the ball away a large amount with stupid passes and lapses in concentration, and you can't have that against City. His assists, in my opinion, weren't great passes in either of the last 2 games either, as much as his fans will argue otherwise about the one to Mata (apparently a simple 1 - 2 is something that only he in the United squad is capable of). The team as a whole is functioning far, far better with Young in than it was with Di Maria. Is that the sole reason? No. But it's part of it, so why change it? Let's also not forget that the assists Di Maria has produced in the past couple of games have come when he has come on with fresh legs, against tired teams who, in both cases, were behind and had to chase the game, thus had to leave gaps. And he was dreadful against Liverpool Dreadful. Assist, and a great pass to earn the penalty, but other than that he gave the ball away repeatedly and messed up a great chance to score on the break for Rooney. Against Villa he was a bit better. Again, fail to see why he "deserves" to start.

Yes, he'll have better likelihood of scoring / assisting than Young. But he won't do half the work that Young does, nor will he have the understanding with Blind that Young is starting to develop. He will also drift positionally, which Young doesn't do.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
 
comlag said:
Di Maria represents a high risk high reward factor for LVG. He gives away a lot of possession which against high quality opposition is very dangerous, however he usually contributes at least one telling pass or dribble. He won't start but he will probably come on around 60/65 depending on the circumstances. Could be very useful against tiring or comfortable defenders.
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Actually di Maria gave the ball away less than Young in the last two games.

So let's stop suggesting he's too errant in his passing. Even when he's been sloppier di Maria's assign % has been higher than I had suspected, and similar to Young's.
 
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Hernandez - BFA said:
I'm sure you're not being serious, but not wanting him to start doesn't mean we hate him.
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I was referring to a thread title not expressing my opinion. The thread in questions says, "dislike" I believe. But I might suggest people are focusing too much on his previous terrible form and not appreciating he's improved noticibly since returning from suspension.
 
carlosp said:
Stats show Young is better home and overall throughout the season. That includes possession. Away, Di Maria is better.

http://www.whoscored.com/Teams/32

Defensive, Young is way better than Di Maria, offensive, Di Maria is better. Passing Di Maria is top because of his assists. Possession, Young is better.
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What about in the last two games? Last two months?
 
gooDevil said:
I was referring to a thread title not expressing my opinion. The thread in questions says, "dislike" I believe. But I might suggest people are focusing too much on his previous terrible form and not appreciating he's improved noticibly since returning from suspension.
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Has he really though? He wasn't good against Liverpool. He was OK against Villa. Does it merit inclusion at the expense of Young, who has been fine in his absence? No, not in my opinion.

People just want to have a reason to whinge. 5 wins on the bounce including against 2 of our biggest rivals for CL spot and people are still moaning. "ooh, why isn't Di Maria playing" etc.
 
dirkey said:
Has he really though? He wasn't good against Liverpool. He was OK against Villa. Does it merit inclusion at the expense of Young, who has been fine in his absence? No, not in my opinion.

People just want to have a reason to whinge. 5 wins on the bounce including against 2 of our biggest rivals for CL spot and people are still moaning. "ooh, why isn't Di Maria playing" etc.
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How can you look at my posts in this thread and think I'm moaning and just looking for a reason to whinge?

At least support your contention that di Maria wasn't good against Liverpool with an argument, as well as your claim he doesn't merit inclusion at the expense of Young.
 
Passing % vs. Villa
Young: 68.8%
Di Maria: 86.7%

Passing % vs. Liverpool
Young: 68.8%
Di Maria: 73.9%

Passing vs. Arsenal
Young: 74.4%
Di Maria: 83.3%


Looks like, on recent form, it's Young who is being wasteful and dangerously exposing our defense by giving the ball away.
 
gooDevil said:
Passing % vs. Villa
Young: 68.8%
Di Maria: 86.7%

Passing % vs. Liverpool
Young: 68.8%
Di Maria: 73.9%

Passing vs. Arsenal
Young: 74.4%
Di Maria: 83.3%


Looks like, on recent form, it's Young who is being wasteful and dangerously exposing our defense by giving the ball away.
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That's the crazy thing about stats, Di Maria's passing is better as what you posted showed but at the same time you can see by all the different posts in this thread, that there is a risk with his passing. It's actually difficult to put into words, it can only verified by watching games.
 
gooDevil said:
Passing % vs. Villa
Young: 68.8%
Di Maria: 86.7%

Passing % vs. Liverpool
Young: 68.8%
Di Maria: 73.9%

Passing vs. Arsenal
Young: 74.4%
Di Maria: 83.3%


Looks like, on recent form, it's Young who is being wasteful and dangerously exposing our defense by giving the ball away.
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It doesn't represent anything proper to be honest. Young was on the field a lot longer than Di Maria in all three matches and so would have a lower pass rate since he has to go for crosses and passes that was risky while Di Maria would have a higher passing rate while doing less passes.

If you want a comparison, take the Newcastle game where Di Maria was subbed after 60 minutes. You will notice that Di Maria had a passing rate of only 64%. Young got pass rate of 77% and played full 90min.

http://epl.squawka.com/newcastle-un...-2015/english-barclays-premier-league/matches

Di Maria vs Sunderland 68% pass and subbed after 45 minutes. Young played full 90min and had pass rate of 91%

http://epl.squawka.com/manchester-u...-2015/english-barclays-premier-league/matches

Di Maria vs Swansea 79% pass and subbed after 79min. Young came on after 58min and had pass rate of 89%

http://epl.squawka.com/swansea-city...-2015/english-barclays-premier-league/matches

Young vs Spurs 83% pass played full 90min. Di Maria didn't play

http://epl.squawka.com/manchester-u...-2015/english-barclays-premier-league/matches

Liverpool - Young 69% and subbed by Di Maria 74% after 55min

http://epl.squawka.com/liverpool-vs...-2015/english-barclays-premier-league/matches
 
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I don't really see why we'd change anything up just yet, let the same team start and if we need some pace and energy towards the end then bring on Di Maria. He really hasn't done anything the last couple of subs appearances to merit a start and we aren't exactly in the time of the season where you'd want to see unnecessary changes just for the sake of it.
 
carlosp said:
Defensive, Young is way better than Di Maria, offensive, Di Maria is better. Passing Di Maria is top because of his assists. Possession, Young is better.
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Young has played as fullback and wingback as well as on the wing. Di Maria has played as second striker, striker as well as on the wing. The weird thing would be if Young didn't have better defensive stats and Di Maria better offensive figures.

To me, the interesting things to compare would be when they have (more or less) the same job to do and ideally the same United setup and opponent. From what I've seen in the last few matches there's not much difference in terms of possession play but Di Maria's passing and end product is better. It's all guesswork though, they're different players with different pros and cons and they're both capable of turning in bad performances. If I try and guess who would give us the most against a team like City, I'd guess Di Maria. But actually, I'm just glad Young is playing well enough to mean it's a choice.
 
carlosp said:
It doesn't represent anything proper to be honest. Young was on the field a lot longer than Di Maria in all three matches and so would have a lower pass rate since he has to go for crosses and passes that was risky while Di Maria would have a higher passing rate while doing less passes.
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So my stats don't show anything, but your stats do?

People have lower passing % when they're on the field longer? Go ahead and explain that one...
 
jojojo said:
Young has played as fullback and wingback as well as on the wing. Di Maria has played as second striker, striker as well as on the wing. The weird thing would be if Young didn't have better defensive stats and Di Maria better offensive figures.

To me, the interesting things to compare would be when they have (more or less) the same job to do and ideally the same United setup and opponent. From what I've seen in the last few matches there's not much difference in terms of possession play but Di Maria's passing and end product is better. It's all guesswork though, they're different players with different pros and cons and they're both capable of turning in bad performances. If I try and guess who would give us the most against a team like City, I'd guess Di Maria. But actually, I'm just glad Young is playing well enough to mean it's a choice.
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I agree and as I have said before, currently Young plays very well with Blind and Fellaini and it's created a sort of harmony on the left hand side and a greater attacking option just like Valencia, Herrera and Mata have created a harmony on the right hand side and great attacking options. That's good because the ball gets moved from left to right a lot and that means that the opponents defence is moving to cover and thus tiring. Bringing on Di Maria after 60 minutes allows a fresh Angel to attack a tiring defence and it's shown in the past few games. He isn't bad but when he is on, Blind doesn't come forward as he does when Young and Fellaini is on, giving us less attacking options.

At least that's how I see it.
 
gooDevil said:
So my stats don't show anything, but your stats do?

People have lower passing % when they're on the field longer? Go ahead and explain that one...
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I never said your stats don't show anything, they just don't give the full picture. As I have shown, there's games when Di Maria has played longer and Young fewer minutes and Young has shown a higher pass rate(Swansea).

Then there's games where Young has played full 90 minutes and had high passing rate while Di Maria has played less and had a low passing rate(Newcastle and Sunderland).
 
I can understand the argument that we shouldn't change what has been a winning setup, which is the opinion I usually have. The main problem for me is that for how much work Young puts in, his end product is still below standard. His plays into the box against Villa were poor IMO and I found it pretty ironic that after all the effort Young was giving in the first half, it was a clean pass on the ground from Blind that led to our first goal (granting that Young also assisted).

City are going to come at us and it might be helpful to have Di Maria's pace in the game somewhere for the counterattack. The question is, can we live with his turning over the ball? I fear we'd be punished.
 
I don't know how anyone can have watched the Liverpool game and concluded Di Maria played well.
 
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