Di Maria Has Earned Start Against City

marlowe78 said:
City are going to come at us
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... and we'll be coming harder at them. We are at OT and we always dominate at OT. We are the better team.

marlowe78 said:
and it might be helpful to have Di Maria's pace in the game somewhere for the counterattack.
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Im not worried about counter attack. We will dominate possession and create our own chances. You need to start thinking like a big team. We are not a counter-attacking team. In fact, we are useless at counter attacks. How many goals have been scored by us, on the counter, this season?

marlowe78 said:
The question is, can we live with his turning over the ball? I fear we'd be punished.
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Indeed.
I actually think that against lesser teams, like Leicester, Di Maria is fine, but for big games, where teams come at us, Young is a better option, due to his defensive work.
I still remember against Tottenham, Blind and Young were so good, that Tottenham's right back got subbed before half time. And even when they brought on their substitute, we scored (through that left hand side).
Young should be our Plan A and if things aren't working, switch to Plan B (Di Maria). This has been the plan for each of the last 3 games (which we won).
 
It's a real difficult one. I think we can all agree that Di Maria is the better player. But so far in the big games that left side (Young, Blind + Fellaini) has worked so well. I wouldn't complain if Di Maria started nor will I be bothered if Young retains his place.

Good options either way.
 
He should get a start sooner or later again but maybe not against City. He is too sloppy in possession and doesn't work enough defensively so against one of the top teams is probably not the right time to bring him back.
 
I'd keep the team as it is. We're on a great run and we need to keep the side consistent. Now is not the time to go messing about with the team and formation.
 
gooDevil said:
How can you look at my posts in this thread and think I'm moaning and just looking for a reason to whinge?

At least support your contention that di Maria wasn't good against Liverpool with an argument, as well as your claim he doesn't merit inclusion at the expense of Young.
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I didn't mean you in particular, I just think that people need to find fault for random reasons. And I believe that is what this is - Louis is wrong, he should be playing Di Maria.

Do I really need to justify that he needs inclusion ahead of Young, given that we have won the last 5 games, including those against some of our biggest rivals, with Young starting? I don't really believe I need to justify it, as I mentioned in a post above, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Team has been playing well, so why change a winning formula? I'm about the team performing as a whole and winning games. What I have seen is that from this season so far, we are now finally starting to look and play like a team. That has happened with Di Maria on the bench, so stick with it for now. No need to change it for the sake of it. Play Young, as he gives us more solidity. Yes, he can't do the spectacular as much as Di Maria, but he works harder and has a nice understanding down the left with Blind. I think Di Maria would roam a lot more when played out there, thus would lose us the shape and balance that we currently have. It's working, what we're doing now, which is starting Young, then bringing Di Maria on when he is fresh, so that his pace can hurt tired teams. Absolutely no need to change it, in my opinion justifying a change is what is necessary, not justifying why staying with a well performing winning team.

AS for his game against Liverpool, he had 2 good passes. One was great, and we earned a penalty from it. One was a simple 1-2, that he played behind Mata, which Mata turned into an assist through a spectacular finish. Other than that, he was repeatedly making bad decisions, passing when he should run, running when he should pass. He gave the ball away a few times in pretty stupid situations, he caught the ball retardedly while we had a chance to counter attack, and he messed up a simple pass to Rooney when Rooney was completely free in the middle and we were on the break. What I think a lot of people are also forgetting is that this was when Liverpool were down to 10 men and there for the taking, when a bit of clever possession football was necessary. I also have a feeling he gave the ball away really badly at one point which led to a Liverpool counter, but to be honest, I'm not 100% sure of my memory on that one so I may be wrong.

All in all, against a tired 10 men, he wasn't good.
 
JPRouve said:
I would say that the difference is visible here:

http://epl.squawka.com/manchester-u...-2015/english-barclays-premier-league/matches

http://epl.squawka.com/manchester-u...-2015/english-barclays-premier-league/matches

Look at where both players lose the ball, maybe it can help your conversation.
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That's a pretty cool website. Just spent ten minutes looking at where everyone passed in the villa game :lol: Noticed that Mata likes to spread the play a bit and De Gea doesn't do any long balls anymore. Carrick and Herrera are amazing at moving the ball around too, both of them are all over the pitch. Rojo seems to give the ball away quite a bit.
 
NoLogo said:
He should get a start sooner or later again but maybe not against City. He is too sloppy in possession and doesn't work enough defensively so against one of the top teams is probably not the right time to bring him back.
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I'm under the impression that he is less sloppy against better opposition, and I think that he wouldn't be a liability against City.
 
Attila said:
That's a pretty cool website.
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In the Liverpool game, I love the way Valencia(92%), Herrera(86%) and Mata(93%) dominated that right side and Moreno in particular. Poor lad had hardly a sniff in the game. Love it.

Also shows that Blind was the most active on the left hand side.
 
carlosp said:
In the Liverpool game, I love the way Valencia(92%), Herrera(86%) and Mata(93%) dominated that right side and Moreno in particular. Poor lad had hardly a sniff in the game. Love it.

Also shows that Blind was the most active on the left hand side.
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Going through that game right now. Yeah the right side domination is very visible. Also Jordan Henderson was absolutely shocking (62% passing)...they should have started gerrard instead with his impressive 80% successful passes cameo coming too late. Our midfield completely bossed theirs. Fellaini's aerial duels and clearances are very impressive. Ashley Young seemed to have had an average day and gave the ball away quite a bit.

Also Mamadou Sakho isn't as shit as I thought...89% passing which is better than any other CB on the pitch that day. Way better than Skrtel and Can.
 
Attila said:
Also Mamadou Sakho isn't as shit as I thought...89% passing which is better than any other CB on the pitch that day. Way better than Skrtel and Can.
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Yeah, saw that and wanted to comment then didn't. Pretty impressive for the man.

Loved Ballotelli's contribution, 8 passes and 50% pass rate. :D Gerrard also had as much touches on his 36 seconds(or however many).
 
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NoLogo said:
He should get a start sooner or later again but maybe not against City. He is too sloppy in possession and doesn't work enough defensively so against one of the top teams is probably not the right time to bring him back.
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Pretty much all that needs to be said on the matter. Di Maria having the responsibility to track Zabaleta is a massive risk, one that we don't need to take.
 
akash02 said:
I don't know how anyone can have watched the Liverpool game and concluded Di Maria played well.
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I've watched it twice and found the criticisms that he didn't play well completely overblown.
 
ChrisG11 said:
Pretty much all that needs to be said on the matter. Di Maria having the responsibility to track Zabaleta is a massive risk, one that we don't need to take.
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I'm sure he can deal with Zabaleta given he knows him very well. Also, AdM starting may incentivize him to raise his game since he'll be up against his Argie mates.
 
Raoul said:
I'm sure he can deal with Zabaleta given he knows him very well. Also, AdM starting may incentivize him to raise his game since he'll be up against his Argie mates.
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And Zabaleta will be less attacking too, knowing and respecting Di Maria's qualities.

For me the reason why Young was good for us, is because he occupies constantly the fullback, him and Di Maria were the only players capable to do that, now that Mata is the definite starter on the right, I don't see any reason to not play Di Maria on the left, outside of 'Young doesn't deserve to lose his place' but that's not a footballing argument.
 
akash02 said:
He was terrible.

A lot better against Villa but still not enough to displace.
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He was hardly terrible. Just not the Di Maria we saw earlier this year, but still effective. You have to expect a few "normal" performances from creative/flair players - doesn't take away from his overall quality.
 
Raoul said:
He was hardly terrible. Just not the Di Maria we saw earlier this year, but still effective. You have to expect a few "normal" performances from creative/flair players - doesn't take away from his overall quality.
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I don't mind misplaced passes or crosses especially not from creative players like Di Maria or Nani. But he wasn't even doing that. He was misplacing the simplest of passes and putting us under pressure.
 
ChrisG11 said:
Pretty much all that needs to be said on the matter. Di Maria having the responsibility to track Zabaleta is a massive risk, one that we don't need to take.
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One of di Maria's best attributes is his work rate, something he illustrated frequently last year, particularly in the Champions League final. Even in the games against QPR, Leicester, West Ham and City, he demonstrated his ability to run up and down the pitch for the full 90 minutes. He's far better than Ashley Young in every aspect that's needed of a winger; just because he's been out of form doesn't make him any less of a player.
 
fishfingers15 said:
What happened to you? You are so negative about everything, haven't had sex in a few months? Come on man
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Heh. I've been quite positive since the Arsenal game tbh. Don't understand why people want us to change something that's working so very well for a player who's been rather poor.
 
akash02 said:
Heh. I've been quite positive since the Arsenal game tbh. Don't understand why people want us to change something that's working so very well for a player who's been rather poor.
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Because it won't change what we are doing, Young isn't in a good form either.
 
Raoul said:
I'm sure he can deal with Zabaleta given he knows him very well. Also, AdM starting may incentivize him to raise his game since he'll be up against his Argie mates.
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It might, you're right. However, upon evidence so far this season would you be trusting that? It's a lot of ifs, buts and maybes that don't guarantee we'll do any better than we have been currently even if that does happen. That battle would probably be City's greatest chance of cutting us open and it could be the difference between winning and losing, with Young you completely eliminate that.
 
akash02 said:
Better than Di Maria. I'd rather not gamble before the City game either.
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That's not gambling and one gives assists while the other one doesn't. But I'm always comfortable with Young in big games, he always seems to perform.
 
Captain Hindsight said:
One of di Maria's bestattributes is his work rate, something he illustrated frequently last year, particularly in the Champions League final. Even in the games against QPR, Leicester, West Ham and City, he demonstrated his ability to run up and down the pitch for the full 90 minutes. He's far better than Ashley Young in every aspect that's needed of a winger; just because he's been out of form doesn't make him any less of a player.
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It's nothing to do with work rate, it's to do with the ability to track your man. I don't care if Di Maria runs 12km in 90 minutes, if he doesn't run 5-10metres quicker than Zabaleta in our final third then we potentially lose the game. Look at the Arsenal game, Monreal was completely left and it wasn't that he didn't have the motivation to track him, it's that his general defensive awareness of what's around him isn't really that good.
 
ChrisG11 said:
It's nothing to do with work rate, it's to do with the ability to track your man. I don't care if Di Maria runs 12km in 90 minutes, if he doesn't run 5-10metres quicker than Zabaleta in our final third then we potentially lose the game. Look at the Arsenal game, Monreal was completely left and it wasn't that he didn't have the motivation to track him, it's that his general defensive awareness of what's around him isn't really that good.
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It's the managers job to ensure that di Maria is aware of his responsibilities, both offensive and defensive. If LvG's unable to do this, then we're better off getting rid of di Maria. However, if he can, which he clearly did earlier in the season, then we'll be better off starting with di Maria than with Young.

If you want convincing of his defensive responsibilities, then look no further than his performance in the CL final, last season. As I mentioned before, he's more than capable, however, it needs reinforced again by the manager.
 
I don't mind whether he starts on bench or be in the line up from the start. He showed some good signs of teamplay, didn't try to make things happen from places where it's not possible like he used to do it before and got an assist even it was actually quite a poor one but rooney's brilliance converted it in goal and assist for diMaria, Young was however also good particularly in the first half and he does his job well defensively so I wouldn't mind to start him there against city for that reason, Blind showed that he can use his intelligence to cover for his speed as LB but if there is any smarter winger than Townsend I believe he could still struggle so the need for cover in Young is there..

Angel showed he is quality sub now
 
Captain Hindsight said:
It's the managers job to ensure that di Maria is aware of his responsibilities, both offensive and defensive. If LvG's unable to do this, then we're better off getting rid of di Maria. However, if he can, which he clearly did earlier in the season, then we'll be better off starting with di Maria than with Young.

If you want convincing of his defensive responsibilities, then look no further than his performance in the CL final, last season. As I mentioned before, he's more than capable, however, it needs reinforced again by the manager.
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It's nothing to do with the manager that Di Maria just isn't very aware of overlapping full backs. I'm sure Di Maria knows exactly what he's supposed to do, but City's whole gameplan is overlaps and third man running down the wings - completely different to Atletico Madrid's style of play in the CL final; that's before mentioning other variables like playing a different role and being in form playing week in week out, and it's the biggest game of his career.

This is where a manager assesses a players strengths and weaknesses, compares them to the threats of the opposition and evaluates which players would be the best for the job. You've got a player who almost specialises in tracking full backs and who is also in form going forward, or a player who hasn't been playing regularly, has shown he's suspect defensively and has a tendency to give the ball away an incredible amount.

I'd love Di Maria to start and have the game of his life which kick starts his career at United, but in reality when you analyse the current details, starting him wouldn't be a pragmatic decision.
 
I'd prefer to stick with that has been working. Leave Di Maria on the bench and bring him on as an impact sub. We won't even see close to what he can do until next season if he is still here by then so for now I'm happy to use him as an impact sub for whatever reasons he is still not settled in England but hopefully that will all come soon
 
united_99 said:
Everyone knows Di Maria has to improve his form, but even on top form he is never going to provide the "safety" and "balance" Young does. So maybe we should always keep Young then? As far as I am concerned we already have a gk, 4 ppl in defence and a DM who mainly should be responsible for defending. That doesn't mean that the defenders aren't allowed to attack or the attackers to defend, but when the main argument to include an attacking player is his defensive and safety approach then it's not what I want to see at all.
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It's not about Young contributing in defence (which helps) but adhering to the tactical blueprint, which Di Maria hasn't done consistently (if at all).

In fairness to him, he has been messed about with all the tinkering. A player like him should never be deployed with his back to goal, but space in front of him. I'm sure he will adapt and perform within the blueprint, just like Ander has, but you don't feck about with a winning formula in the hope he suddenly works it out. Not in such an important game. It will be better long term if Di Maria gets to make that role his own over a run of games rather than risk going down in flames in a game where we have everything going for us as it is.
 
Keep Young and Mata as starters and bring on Di Maria as a sub. Young did a good job in the first half against Villa, and put in some good crosses into the box that no one could finish off.
 
ChrisG11 said:
It's nothing to do with the manager that Di Maria just isn't very aware of overlapping full backs. I'm sure Di Maria knows exactly what he's supposed to do, but City's whole gameplan is overlaps and third man running down the wings - completely different to Atletico Madrid's style of play in the CL final; that's before mentioning other variables like playing a different role and being in form playing week in week out, and it's the biggest game of his career.

This is where a manager assesses a players strengths and weaknesses, compares them to the threats of the opposition and evaluates which players would be the best for the job. You've got a player who almost specialises in tracking full backs and who is also in form going forward, or a player who hasn't been playing regularly, has shown he's suspect defensively and has a tendency to give the ball away an incredible amount.

I'd love Di Maria to start and have the game of his life which kick starts his career at United, but in reality when you analyse the current details, starting him wouldn't be a pragmatic decision.
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Young's only advantage over di Maria is his guaranteed tracking of the full back. He's not been that impressive going forward, recently. With regards to the "tendency to give the ball away", there have been stats posted in this thread which illustrate that Young has been as wasteful, if not more, in possession; in fact, he had a worse pass completion rate, than di Maria, against Liverpool and Villa.

There's been a lot of talk about playing Ashley Young to help neutralise City's attacking threat, why not play di Maria and give them something to worry about? The only way we're going to get him back into form is by playing him in these bug games, and not always running to the "safety first" option.
 
Not sure if it has been discussed already (as I haven't read the thread through in its entirety) but I saw quotes from LvG after the Villa game about the fact that he doesn't mind if we play ugly and win against City. It made me think that he was going to approach the City game differently to the way we have the last few. If we do change our tactics then I reckon Di Maria might get a start because he is perfect when the onus isn't on possession.
 
Captain Hindsight said:
Young's only advantage over di Maria is his guaranteed tracking of the full back. He's not been that impressive going forward, recently. With regards to the "tendency to give the ball away", there have been stats posted in this thread which illustrate that Young has been as wasteful, if not more, in possession; in fact, he had a worse pass completion rate, than di Maria, against Liverpool and Villa.

There's been a lot of talk about playing Ashley Young to help neutralise City's attacking threat, why not play di Maria and give them something to worry about? The only way we're going to get him back into form is by playing him in these bug games, and not always running to the "safety first" option.
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Not impressive? He absolutely terrorised Villa at the weekend, him and Blind were fantastic. With regards to stats, we both know they don't tell the full story. Di Maria is coming on when teams are tired and has a lot more space, whilst Young only really loses the ball in situations where we're setup to deal with it. Di Maria gives the ball away carelessly and unnecessarily quite a lot, there's a reason he's got that reputation and Young hasn't.

In terms of giving City something to worry about, we've got plenty of threats including the Blind/Young partnership. Rooney in form, the threat of Fellaini and our direct approach into him, the Mata/Herrera/Valencia combinations which have been so effective as of late. They will have plenty to think about, I just don't understand why we'd risk playing into their hands and not being at optimum strength in areas where they specialise.
 
ChrisG11 said:
Not impressive? He absolutely terrorised Villa at the weekend, him and Blind were fantastic. With regards to stats, we both know they don't tell the full story. Di Maria is coming on when teams are tired and has a lot more space, whilst Young only really loses the ball in situations where we're setup to deal with it. Di Maria gives the ball away carelessly and unnecessarily quite a lot, there's a reason he's got that reputation and Young hasn't.

In terms of giving City something to worry about, we've got plenty of threats including the Blind/Young partnership. Rooney in form, the threat of Fellaini and our direct approach into him, the Mata/Herrera/Valencia combinations which have been so effective as of late. They will have plenty to think about, I just don't understand why we'd risk playing into their hands and not being at optimum strength in areas where they specialise.
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One would assume that almost all of Young's attempted crosses count as failed passes. Which suggests he doesn't lose it that much elsewhere.
 
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