Is he back to being shit again then? This thread is hard to keep up.
Eden Hazard 16/17 Performances
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
This is coming off the back of a terrible season - now a season where his side have had no Europe to focus on, has had adequate rest and has played in a system that allows him attacking freedom. A system that came as a shock to the league. He was man marked out of the game, as much as I love Herrera, I don't see the top tier players (the Messi's, Neymar's etc) getting nullified by him, if they were up for it. They would still be able to influence the match, whether through moments of magic, goals/assists etc. Had no fight in him this game at all, he's no Messi, nowhere near gifted enough to half-arse matches. Hazard was completely anonymous, offered nothing. Hazard could never do what Neymar did against PSG, Messi against Bayern, Ronaldo against Bayern the other day etc. for example.
As I've said, he's a very good player, just not in the same class as Neymar imo.
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PFA Player of the year...
The reason he can't be a top, top player is that he does not have that killer mentality. Also a bit of a coward. Not everyone has to be though. In terms of talent, he is more than good enough but he does not defend.
Indeed no killer mentality vs City couple weeks ago
The most protected player to have ever played in the premier league? I genuinely think so. If he gets looked at funny he gets a free kick.
So a great season.
Like I say, he has to completely move away from the debacle that was last season.
One more good season will do that. Then after that he can think about Madrid
Even Neymar would struggle with the man marking done so well by Herrera and later by Carrick.
Even Messi and Neymar get nullified in big games by non-WC players. It just happens when your team is outplayed the way Chelsea was by United today, or Argentina was by Chile in the last Copa final. Or Barcelona was by PSG and Juventus this season. Neymar's standout performance in the return leg against PSG came when Barca were playing them off the park for most of the game. It's just the way things work.
Sure, in comparison Hazard's career is lacking quite a bit so far, but there's also some serious hyperbole in these mythical hero tales.
Doubt it, Neymar's movement off the ball is superior, his link-up play is just as good, if not better and he's better at providing those final, killer balls. Hazard showed a bit of inexperience imo today, he was being man-marked but instead of trying to find space he kept occupying the same parts of the field, he could have went forward and stood near Costa for example, or the left. For the most part he kept occupying the middle, which was heaven for Herrera. He could have and should have done better.
People keep saying he should have found space but he was playing in a game where he was man marked with two sides playing 3-5-2. The midfield is swamped with both defences pushed up. There was no space for him.
What he needed was a partner that could drag players away ala Lingard. Pedro wasn't doing anything to help his cause.
What he needed was a partner that could drag players away ala Lingard. Pedro wasn't doing anything to help his cause.
You could use that same argument for Chelsea and Hazard, him only looking good because Chelsea have looked great for the most part this season. It's a bit unfair to compare Hazard to Messi and Ronaldo because they are freaks of the game, but they've both proven, time and time again that even when they are being nullified, they can dictate games. With Hazard he either looks incredible and dominate games, or looks very average. No-one is saying he has to be great every game, but he hasn't shown anything that he can decide games when things aren't going his way in matches. (not from what I've seen anyway, could be wrong)
It's true Neymar, Messi etc. have been nullified and had bad games in the past, but I'd put my money on them over Hazard to turn a game on it's head - even if they were underperforming, every time.
I don't know if it's a mentality thing, but he just doesn't look to have the same fire to win as the other top players in the world, I'd still put him in top 15 in the world though.
Tbf. every attacking player except Ronaldo and the little turd at Barcelona would have a hard time when being man marked by Herrera.
Guy is just relentless.
He could have occupied space out wide, swapped with Pedro, got Costa to drop deep and went up top or even went up top alongside Costa. He was sitting in the middle of the pitch and when he was struggling, instead of occupying space was just dropping deeper and deeper. Like I said, I don't know if that was tactics by Conte telling him to sit in the middle but it was odd. He occupied that space for the majority of the game, despite the fact that it obviously wasn't working.
He did that though, Carragher showed a clip where he moved from wing to wing and then up top with Costa in a matter of minutes and still nothing was coming off for him.
The purpose of three at the back is to suffocate the attack and midfield, that means less space for the opposition to work in. Hazard suffered in the cup game but his answer was to turn Smalling or Jones and break away from that. Herrera did a better job at man marking than those two so those monents of inspiration were difficult to come by.
Look at their midfield, nobody was there who could switch the play like Pogba or pass forward like Herrera for the goal so Hazard couldn't make runs in behind or find space when the play was on the opposite flank since they didn't have a player who could find him. He had to come and try to relieve the pressure from their midfield, they were in big enough trouble without getting isolated in there
The problem is, his skill is needed to get out of these tight areas in the first place. If he constantly moved away from the ball, Chelsea's chances to create something would have declined even further. He actually stayed wide a couple of times, and the result was that he simply didn't get the ball because his teammates were chased off of it.
United simply was better in all departments today, that's pretty much it.
Fair enough, I don't remember him ever moving up top, could be wrong
He probably is the player of the season still despite todays performance. He's nowhere near or never will be near the level of Ronaldo or Messi, I doubt that he'll even reach the same standard as Bale.
Of course I do, that's my whole point. Very seldom does a great individual performance of an offensive player happen when the team is not up to it. Goalscorers may have that one moment that completely goes against the flow of the game from time to time, but players mainly tasked with creating rarely do.
I agree with that, that's why I've always been of the opinion that goal-scorers are just that little bit more valuable than playmakers. It's the hardest skill in the game imo. Hazard is a great playmaker, but doesn't have that killer instinct to kill off games like the other top players in the world. As you yourself mentioned, looks great when Chelsea are performing, but couldn't get his team single-handedly over the line consistently if they were struggling, not from what I've seen anyway. Still the best player in the league imo on form. You claim it's seldom, but it's happened many a time, Martial did it for us last season countless times despite us being poor and looking void of ideas. Messi has done it throughout his career, so has Ronaldo. Robben has single handedly won games when his team has looked on the ropes, do I have to remind you about his game against us in the CL a few years ago? Neymar has done it for Brazil countless times etc. Bale at Spurs was a level above this current Hazard imo, whilst also looking better for his national team.
It's small margins though, if he does well in Europe next season and has a very good World Cup, I'd be happy to say I was wrong. As of the moment though, I just don't think he has that killer instinct.
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He and Sanchez are the best players in the league.
People put too much stock in stats. Hazard is class . Took an entire game plan and hard working man marker to keep him quiet.
We need a player that good.
People put too much stock in stats. Hazard is class . Took an entire game plan and hard working man marker to keep him quiet.
We need a player that good.
This.
He's fantastic, it was just that Herrera had the performance of the season to nullify him.
Issue with Hazard is that although every great player has had a off game or been nullified tactically.. his rivals have all still managed to have good days where they managed to foil tactical plans and make their mark on the big stage. Guys like Bale and Neymar and Griezmann are his rivals and he still has it to prove that he too can perform on the biggest stages.
There's not many players in world football that warrant the kind of attention we gave him today. He's caused us a lot of problems previously and probably will do again
You underrated Darmian if you think Pedro was simply lacking this game. Darmian plugged the pocket of pace which Pedro usually makes full use with his off ball movement.
I think Neymar's influential is greater. He may not be a midfielder but he can drop really deep if it's to help getting involved and get the game moving. Neymar was target of man marking tactic before, and IMO he still had more influential in game than Hazard in that circumstance. I think Neymar has more fight in him. Sometimes he uses it wrong, but definitely there are times it help in his favor.
Hazard is still PL POTY for me though.
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He's a good player yeah but you couldn't stop Ronaldo/Suarez/Bale as easily.
He could have went on the left wing and pulled Herrera out of his comfort zone. Dunno if that was their tactic or not but he could have tried something different, he'll..anything different
Ronaldo has had atrocious games and scored a header or tap in so many times.
Hazard beats players for fun and drives his team from deep positions. His balance and ability with the ball at close control is rivalled by few in the game.
I think he could get into any side in the bar Barca.
Hazard beats players for fun and drives his team from deep positions. His balance and ability with the ball at close control is rivalled by few in the game.
I think he could get into any side in the bar Barca.
Amazing footballer
Very true, all players have poor games/spells of form as well. Happens.
I think people have alluded that they expect more individual threat from Hazard and I agree.
Hazard relies massively on service from his team mates in terms of one-twos and getting isolations. It's why I think Costa is an absolutely brilliant player when he wants to be (of course he looked dog sh|t today); he leads Chelsea's line as a physical reference point, scores goals, play makes with deft dribbling AND is the main one-two passer for Hazard/Pedro. When he isn't on it or rather wasn't allowed to like today, Pedro/Hazard need to do more individually.
In this respect Hazard didn't show the atheletic/powerful or single minded dribbling the likes your Bale, Messi, Neymar, Robben and Sahchez etc have shown it takes to open up space and create opportunties from 'nothing' positions.
Thank God i do not take definitive conclusions game by game or i could look silly in hypothetic situations like:
- oh, look that, Dybala can score against the might defense of Barcelona when nobody is marking him, he's the new Messi.
- or even worse: Hazard was bad last game = he sux.
- oh, look that, Dybala can score against the might defense of Barcelona when nobody is marking him, he's the new Messi.
- or even worse: Hazard was bad last game = he sux.
This
He's probably the best big game player in the league. If anyone deserves a pass for a mediocre performance in a big game, its him. Especially given the circumstances.
This match also showed that just how much Chelsea rely upon him. Quiet Hazard= Quiet Chelsea.
That's why he's my POTY.
Hazard disappeared yesterday. He was very disappointing. You have to say that the really great players don't go missing in big games but rather they play better in these games. Having said that the whole Chelsea team were poor yesterday They gave the ball away all the time. Even if you are hazard and great you can't win a game when the other 10 players are shite
Individual goal threat yes, that's not Hazard's speciality (although there are exceptions like that Arsenal goal...). Then again, there's rarely such a thing as individual goalscoring, goalscorers normally need providers.
But individual dribbling? I know no player bar Messi who dribbles as successful from isolated situations as him. He opens up space this way a lot (not yesterday of course), afterwards he needs passing options. Costa isn't on it for ~4 months now and Hazard has carried much of the creative load anyway, with assistance from Pedro and Fabregas.
Here's some statistics, I hope it works as a link. (I have taken Bale's last season because he was injured/out of form for most of this one.)
http://www.squawka.com/comparison-matrix#premier_league/2016/2017/eden_hazard/641/641/454/0/p|premier_league/2016/2017/alexis_sánchez/641/641/1581/0/p|la_liga/2016/2017/neymar/712/712/5001/0/p|la_liga/2015/2016/gareth_bale/712/176/843/0/p|bundesliga/2016/2017/arjen_robben/682/682/189/99/p#successful_take_ons/successful_take_ons_%#avg