European Super League

Do you want the ESL to happen?


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It’s not going to happen. English clubs will need to convince the fans first and that’s going to be pretty much impossible.

All they've got to do is change the name and wait for the environment to change a bit, which it might well do if City spend 250m+ this summer. In all but name there is already a super league out there. This is just an attempt to formalise it and put some rules in place.

If they change it so its not a closed shop it could work because we all know FIFA and UEFA are doing a terrible job as custodians of the sport.
 
Yeah, with the financial dominance of the Prem and Paris, this will happen soon. As soon as City and PSG were allowed to make a mockery of the sport; this was inevitable.
 
It’s not going to work. It’s already tainted beyond repair in England and there isn’t enough rebranding that can be done to fix that.
Villa fans and the like were set to protest the Super League. Teams that haven’t a chance of getting in. There isnt a carrot that can be thrown that overcomes the argument that a massive cash injection kills the competitiveness of the EPL and the idea that nobody will really care about winning the league anymore
 
It’s not going to work. It’s already tainted beyond repair in England and there isn’t enough rebranding that can be done to fix that.
Villa fans and the like were set to protest the Super League. Teams that haven’t a chance of getting in. There isnt a carrot that can be thrown that overcomes the argument that a massive cash injection kills the competitiveness of the EPL and the idea that nobody will really care about winning the league anymore

So what you mean is that English clubs will pay a colossal fine for leaving the Super League, and that that is preferred to an alternative agreement that gets all parties closer?
 
So what you mean is that English clubs will pay a colossal fine for leaving the Super League, and that that is preferred to an alternative agreement that gets all parties closer?
I highly doubt the fine is legally enforceable but what you say is correct. Throw enough money at the PL - have a clear pathway for any club to enter it - ensure the payments flow throughout the pyramid - and they’ll vote it through. It’ll just replace the CL.
 
I highly doubt the fine is legally enforceable but what you say is correct. Throw enough money at the PL - have a clear pathway for any club to enter it - ensure the payments flow throughout the pyramid - and they’ll vote it through. It’ll just replace the CL.

Why? It's JP Morgan we talk about, they don't get rich by signing contracts that are not legally enforceable.
 
Also, if I was a fan of Villa, Newcastle, Sunderland etc, I think I’d actually want this model.

the top six teams who will win every prem for the rest of time feck off to a ESL. That’s where the mega money goes. Keep the FA Cup and League Cup (these would become much more interesting with the ESL clubs in) and then have an actual decent league system where anyone can win.
If I was a supporter of a smaller club I’d love to see City, United and Chelsea feck off from the league.

I know that’s not what was suggested, but I think it‘s be great for the rest of the league.
 
Also, if I was a fan of Villa, Newcastle, Sunderland etc, I think I’d actually want this model.

the top six teams who will win every prem for the rest of time feck off to a ESL. That’s where the mega money goes. Keep the FA Cup and League Cup (these would become much more interesting with the ESL clubs in) and then have an actual decent league system where anyone can win.
If I was a supporter of a smaller club I’d love to see City, United and Chelsea feck off from the league.

I know that’s not what was suggested, but I think it‘s be great for the rest of the league.

Jaysus
 
Yeah, with the financial dominance of the Prem and Paris, this will happen soon. As soon as City and PSG were allowed to make a mockery of the sport; this was inevitable.
I agree. Feels like United are the only club that can still compete with the Oil and Oligarch money while operating on their own profits, but for how long? We are already deep in debt.

This will happen as the big traditional clubs are fighting for relevance and borderline survival.
 
Why? It's JP Morgan we talk about, they don't get rich by signing contracts that are not legally enforceable.
Because even to my untrained eye the ESL never actually formed. What got announced was an intention to form. It doesn’t exist. There’s no way the EPL clubs signed a contract they had to pay hundreds of millions to get out of without seeing public reaction first despite what Mr Perez may say. And JP Morgan distanced themselves from it haven’t they? They’ve condemned it. The ESL only currently exists with 3 clubs, everyone else has backed away.
 
Because even to my untrained eye the ESL never actually formed. What got announced was an intention to form. It doesn’t exist. There’s no way the EPL clubs signed a contract they had to pay hundreds of millions to get out of without seeing public reaction first despite what Mr Perez may say. And JP Morgan distanced themselves from it haven’t they? They’ve condemned it. The ESL only currently exists with 3 clubs, everyone else has backed away.

How can you be that sure, what do you base this on? Are you saying that when the media speaks about such contract it is nothing but a huge myth?
 
I think it will be like the CL but with fewer Teams.

This League won't allow Teams like Ajax , Benfica or Zagreb or some Russian Teams to join. They want to spread the money across the Teams who brings money and the Teams are located in Germany Spain Italy France and most of all in England.
 
This gets peddled here so often and even some fans take the bait. What you're not pointing out is that as quiet a few posters pointed below is that the traditional clubs generate their income. There are real world consequences for their mishaps. Just look at City. When Pep first came he bought a new GK, Fullbacks, CBs, you name it. Most of them didn't work out. And what did they do? They bought another batch like they went grocery shopping. Compare that to United where the club signed 2 CBs in the last 4 years.

United have spend a nearly identical amount in the last ten years. City chose to spend it on replacements for (expensive) mistakes, United chose to spend it on record breaking sums for Pogba, Lukaku, Maguire and on astronomical wages for Sanchez, De Gea and others.

Also why don't you mention Arsenal, AC Milan, Barcelona? Just a decade ago all of these clubs were considered European powerhouses, now all of them are skint and some even facing the perspective of going bankrupt. You want to know why? Because they don't have a sugar daddy that can pour billions so that they can stay relevant and competitive.

Are you seriously suggesting AC Milan, Barcelona and the likes are in trouble because of the "oil clubs"? That is just ridiculous.
Milan were in downfall before City and PSG were even taken over. The reason? Their billionaire owner stopped investing. Talk about irony.

It's a shame really because right now the PL could have been a battle between United, Leicester, Tottenham, Liverpool and some other team that lost it's place to the sugar daddy clubs(most likely Arsenal).

Tell me exactly how Leicester have fairly generated their income?
And that shouldn't be a fair battle, by the way, since United can easily outspend all the clubs you mention. It's only because they are run so poorly that it would be competitive. Before Abramovich, the PL was pretty damn predictable, and it was on its way to becoming exactly like the Bundesliga now.

Lastly, I do have a problem with where the oil clubs money is coming from. I just think it's ludicrous to claim they've "ruined" football. That process has been going on for far longer and the idea that the likes of Real Madrid and Juve are somehow the good guys is just absurd.
 
Exactly. And everyone with an ounce of sanity can see it. You bought freely for years and if this is now the outcome then you should have to deal with that for whatever time it takes to get back in your feet. Fairly. Otherwise it makes a mockery of other teams being relegated etc for financial reasons

While I agree there are at least two teams who will never have to deal with that reality.
 
True but I also see some Bayern Fans turning to ESL because of the mass spending of Oil clubs and EPL.

I absolutely hate the Idea but the gap between top clubs and the rest is becoming alarming
So making that gap even bigger is the solution?
 
As long as its competitive with promotion and restrictions / demotions its not a bad idea. The issue presently in the sport is the governing bodies / authorities are inept UEFA, FIFA, FA the lot do not feasibly manage the sport effectively.

Seriously as long as you have to qualify for it as you have to for CL & EL I have no problem with the UEFA shitbags not getting a piece of the pie. But I can't quite see the driving forces behind this completely giving up on giving the big name teams a certain advantage. But if this is completely fair and the money is shared fairly between all participating teams, I don't see a reason why fecking UEFA should be involved.
 
Why not have a ESL with relegation and promotion? Would mean more games, but.. I don't know what else could be done. I won't lie, I like the idea of competing with the best teams in a league format.
It would just mean more midweek games for the ESL teams.
So, $$$$ for more games??
 


Let me guess: the founding clubs will be safe, but there will always be 3-5 teams fighting to stay. So even if one of these smaller clubs manage to outperform one of the founding clubs, they may still get relegated instead of that founding club.

They'll probably also throw in a caveat for the small clubs with some bullshit like "if you survive 5 seasons in a row, you too will be able to stay indefinitely".
 
So making that gap even bigger is the solution?

Yes.
Football itself now is gone. There are realistically four/five clubs who can win the league. The rest might need a miracle or a massive investment from one of the 100 richest people on the planet,
 
While I agree there are at least two teams who will never have to deal with that reality.
I agree re city and Chelsea but it doesn’t mean we just let madrid and Barca off the hook for their own failures over many years. Madrid didn’t give a bollock about anyone else, using their media mouthpieces to unsettle everyone’s players. Why should we give a bollock about them? Let them go back to basics, generate and save like most other teams on the planet.

as for oil money well it needs to be talked about with regards to carefully monitoring their spending etc. I don’t know, don’t have the answer . Giving them more money in a SL isn’t the answer.

oh even with their 100m player they still got beaten yesterday :smirk:
 
United have spend a nearly identical amount in the last ten years. City chose to spend it on replacements for (expensive) mistakes, United chose to spend it on record breaking sums for Pogba, Lukaku, Maguire and on astronomical wages for Sanchez, De Gea and others.



Are you seriously suggesting AC Milan, Barcelona and the likes are in trouble because of the "oil clubs"? That is just ridiculous.
Milan were in downfall before City and PSG were even taken over. The reason? Their billionaire owner stopped investing. Talk about irony.



Tell me exactly how Leicester have fairly generated their income?
And that shouldn't be a fair battle, by the way, since United can easily outspend all the clubs you mention. It's only because they are run so poorly that it would be competitive. Before Abramovich, the PL was pretty damn predictable, and it was on its way to becoming exactly like the Bundesliga now.

Lastly, I do have a problem with where the oil clubs money is coming from. I just think it's ludicrous to claim they've "ruined" football. That process has been going on for far longer and the idea that the likes of Real Madrid and Juve are somehow the good guys is just absurd.

They have ruined football. They will dominate and can not be caught. It has accelerated in the last five years and will become an inevitability.

Man City and Chelsea are the reason that Arsenal are no longer a massive club. They are the reason Villa will never finish above 6th. They are the reason Tottenham never truly established themselves as a genuine title challenger.
 
Why not have a ESL with relegation and promotion? Would mean more games, but.. I don't know what else could be done. I won't lie, I like the idea of competing with the best teams in a league format.
It would just mean more midweek games for the ESL teams.
So, $$$$ for more games??
Sometimes we need to say no for the sake of football
 
So what you mean is that English clubs will pay a colossal fine for leaving the Super League, and that that is preferred to an alternative agreement that gets all parties closer?
There will never be an agreement. It’s not the fans who will pay an fine and the fans of West Ham etc won’t give a feck what anybody pays if they have to at all.
 
In the end we have to remember and the English clubs need to remember Barca, Madrid, Juventus need us more than we need them. The PL is doimg just fine as it is financially.

From a perspective of looking out for your own club, let Barca, Madrid, Juventus have some slow rebuilding years. Just increases the chances for PL clubs to win the CL and Europa League.
 
They have ruined football. They will dominate and can not be caught. It has accelerated in the last five years and will become an inevitability.

There is literally 0 reason to believe this. Yes, every era has dominant teams, but no matter how rich and unbeatable a team is, this never lasts.

In the decade before PSG came along, Lyon won 7 titles (and came 2nd twice). Before Juve won 9 in a row, Inter won 5 in a row.

Also, why isn't Bayern and Juve winning 9 titles in a row a problem? Because they've earned their own money? It's still monopolising and destroying any opposition. The PL has never been more interesting than in the last ten years, imo.

Man City and Chelsea are the reason that Arsenal are no longer a massive club. They are the reason Villa will never finish above 6th. They are the reason Tottenham never truly established themselves as a genuine title challenger.

:lol: okay then, if that's what you really believe.

Because Villa were obviously top 5 regulars before City came along? Their PL finishes in the 5 years before the Mansour take-over: 11th - 16th - 10th - 6th - 16th
And Tottenham were battling it out for the title every year? If anything, they came closest when both City and Chelsea were already taken over (and blew it like they always do).
 
Step 1 of any superleague idea to make it workable and palatable to the masses: don't make it a closed circle

Create actual, good rules to allow everyone at least the illusion of the chance to play in it

Then throw money at the domestic leagues until they cave and change to make way for it

Finally, feck off UEFA :lol:
 
There is literally 0 reason to believe this. Yes, every era has dominant teams, but no matter how rich and unbeatable a team is, this never lasts.

In the decade before PSG came along, Lyon won 7 titles (and came 2nd twice). Before Juve won 9 in a row, Inter won 5 in a row.

Also, why isn't Bayern and Juve winning 9 titles in a row a problem? Because they've earned their own money? It's still monopolising and destroying any opposition. The PL has never been more interesting than in the last ten years, imo.



:lol: okay then, if that's what you really believe.

Because Villa were obviously top 5 regulars before City came along? Their PL finishes in the 5 years before the Mansour take-over: 11th - 16th - 10th - 6th - 16th
And Tottenham were battling it out for the title every year? If anything, they came closest when both City and Chelsea were already taken over (and blew it like they always do).

Where were Villa before Chelsea come along?

Its shit when any league isn’t competitive. Look at the Bundesliga now. Abysmal. As is Ligue Un.
 
It’ll not happen with English clubs. No matter how much Perez and co want it to. City and Chelsea were there last time from FOMO and they severely misread the room. They don’t actually need the money at all and they were the first ones to bail. Now they can be white knights opposing this and the public and fans will love them for it. Without those two, without one of them no English clubs will join. I think foreign fans don’t realise the furore it caused here the first time.

They had one shot and they shot. It’s gone. It’s seen as something inherently wrong and against the spirit of the game. Good luck changing that perception.
 
Exactly. And everyone with an ounce of sanity can see it. You bought freely for years and if this is now the outcome then you should have to deal with that for whatever time it takes to get back in your feet. Fairly. Otherwise it makes a mockery of other teams being relegated etc for financial reasons
Well said. I think it points more and more at the oil clubs too. They need to be punished heavily. The rest have had to scramble to keep up with them and now look where it has left them. Theyre constantly inflating the market and yet they can cheat ffp and get away with it. They are the reason behind the esl.
if city go and spend 150 million on Kane after a covid year and claim that the money is all organic then it will be another crime.
I hope the premier league punish them properly but it probably won’t happen as they can lawyer their way out of it.
 
What fans? I haven’t seen many change their opinions? It is and remains a competition to further the big clubs. It’s an unfair competition which would allow those big clubs to buy from the smaller clubs repeatedly. To then play against each other 6 times a season. What is the point in that for fans?
Fans of the big clubs, the whole reason they are big clubs is because they have the biggest fan following.
 
Fans of the big clubs, the whole reason they are big clubs is because they have the biggest fan following.
But which ones specifically are you referring to because I haven’t seen fans of the Manchester clubs, or Liverpool change their minds? So I’m wondering who you specifically are referring to?
 
Fans of the big clubs, the whole reason they are big clubs is because they have the biggest fan following.
And the big clubs underestimated the local support or legacy fans.They’re the ones with season tickets and they’re the ones that will cancel games.
 
But which ones specifically are you referring to because I haven’t seen fans of the Manchester clubs, or Liverpool change their minds? So I’m wondering who you specifically are referring to?
I mainly know fans of Liverpool, Arsenal and Manchester United. They all are open to it, even more open are the casual fans as they would love to see Real Madrid vs United several times a year.
 
It’ll not happen with English clubs. No matter how much Perez and co want it to. City and Chelsea were there last time from FOMO and they severely misread the room. They don’t actually need the money at all and they were the first ones to bail. Now they can be white knights opposing this and the public and fans will love them for it. Without those two, without one of them no English clubs will join. I think foreign fans don’t realise the furore it caused here the first time.

They had one shot and they shot. It’s gone. It’s seen as something inherently wrong and against the spirit of the game. Good luck changing that perception.
Chelsea and City have never wanted the Super League. Why strengthen those spanish clubs who are rivals when they can use the opportunity to try and dominate for the next 10 years?
 
Chelsea and City have never wanted the Super League. Why strengthen those spanish clubs who are rivals when they can use the opportunity to try and dominate for the next 10 years?
Exactly. I don’t see one single reason as to why they’d carry on with it. There is no need for them.
 
I mainly know fans of Liverpool, Arsenal and Manchester United. They all are open to it, even more open are the casual fans as they would love to see Real Madrid vs United several times a year.
Not the feedback we get in here.
Casual fans can go jump
 
Well said. I think it points more and more at the oil clubs too. They need to be punished heavily. The rest have had to scramble to keep up with them and now look where it has left them. Theyre constantly inflating the market and yet they can cheat ffp and get away with it. They are the reason behind the esl.

I am certainly no Abu Dhabi fan but they didn't cheat. They used the massive loopholes in FFP. The only spending cap in FFP is revenue and when you have a state behind you there is no limits to what kind of revenue you can artificially generate. UEFA trying to invalidate sponsorship from various Emirati/Qatari groups was never going to stand in court. Uefa can't prove that Etihad was directed by Mansoor to give City that deal.

The only FFP that can work and increase competitiveness is a real salary cap. Capping the transfer fees and the wages that can be given to one single player.