He teeted something about not buckling under pressure, and that he was going to support whomever he felt like supporting. This, I think, was in response to the comments from McGrath and others. Right after the t-shirt circus.
Evra accuses Suarez of racist remarks | Suarez guilty of racial abuse
- Thread starter Feeky Magee
- Start date
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
He teeted something about not buckling under pressure, and that he was going to support whomever he felt like supporting. This, I think, was in response to the comments from McGrath and others. Right after the t-shirt circus.
Sure, but that's to be expected, football is a tribal culture.
I think it's more a question of people wondering how Johnson's feeling about the situation. Particularly as he appears in Suarez's statement as someone who he regularly addresses as "negro."
From Para 353:
Oooh. Careful now. You go there and you'll be locke in debate with mockers for at least another three hours. You sure you can spare the time?
It's a great read and Marriner's 'oh that's what you were talking about when you said someone called you black' schtick is laughable. Surely if he heard it and didn't undertstand it he should have taken a second to find out?
Mockney, hello mate. Happy New Year.
This board is quite balanced and objective on serious matters, whether its opposition players or indeed our own. Look back at the reaction to Ronaldo during the summer of 2008 or during Rooneys shenanigans last season. They were as vitriolic in their condemnation as we were with terry each and every time he has shown himself to be a bad haircut from the glue sniffing turf of Dagenham and Barking.
I have no doubt whatsoever that if any of our players was found to be guilty of the actions that the racist from Klanfield was found to be, at least 80% of United posters on this board would be unified in their total condemnation of him and 50% would want him out of the club.
And if SAF and the club backed such a player the way KKK and his henchmen have Suarez so far, I would think a very big group of people might even abandon the club for good .... I would certainly consider it.
(Oh, and our mods would allow for a debate to be had and all views to be aired, as long as they were respectful of other posters and within legal boundaries UNLIKE the PRAVA mentality of RAWK. That is just unbelievable that you are only allowed to post if the mods agrees with you
)There is no two ways about it .... Liverpool FC is a shadow of its former self and any semblance of class and prestige that it once had was lost years ago. I refer back to when Alan Smith had his horrific eye popping injury in 2005/6 in the FA cup game vs Liverpool and the reaction of Liverpool fans mimicking sounds of an ambulance .... and then throwing glasses full of urine and faeces down upon the United fans below them. Im sorry but that is just the behaviour of animals. And its not a small minority. They plan these sorts of escapades with military precision, just like smashing up the loos at Old Trafford.
Liverpool Football club has been snowballing both in terms of footballing ability as well as ethics and class for a long time. I thought that with the return of Dalglish, a true Liverpool man, they would begin the upward curve, but he has made the self parody even worse.
Liverpool were once a classy club, much like the Huddersfield's, Wolves, Newcastle's and Sheffield Wednesday's from the past 100 years. But the reality is they are no more. I think fans from Newcastle, Chavski, Spurs and shitty have more class, let alone them getting anywhere close to the class and prestige of clubs like Everton, Aston Villa, Arsenal or Manchester United.
Dalglish has made so many fundamentally wrong decisions this past 4 weeks, I think he has put the club back a further 5 years than when he got his job. I cant see Suarez staying beyond the summer given the rightful abuse he will have to endure when he plays from opposing players and fan alike. And if they fail to qualify for the Europa Cup (likely) I cant see why any half decent player would ant to join them. Even if they got in a wealthy sheik, its still a 5 year project to just get into a position to challenge us or City, let alone win a title.
Before this sordid sequence of events started, that reality would have saddened me - I loved them as rivals and grew up with them as the rightful omnipotent force of European football .... but the actions of Suarez, followed by his clubs blind support of him, and then the attempted character deformation of the innocent and offended party, the manipulation and carefully laid booby traps, the misdirection and outright lying, the attempt to whip up mass hysteria ..... and all this from the clubs most senior managerial personnel .... its classless club run by classless people supported by classless fans who are proven wankers.
RAWK I fear is a pretty accurate representation of all things to do with Liverpool Football Club. And you know what, they are welcome 'to walk alone' .... for all I care, they can just feck off from the face of football.
Aye, there would be some, but in my experience of the caf they be shouted at and wouldn't define the boards' response overall.
That is true. That and the we think our squad is shite but they think theirs is amazing. There's tribalism and there's RAWK. I have a scouse mate who is as deluded as any of us but on this he just shakes his head while looking depressed.
They'll qualify for the Europa League unless Palace or Cardiff win the Europa League and/or they finish outside the Top 6. Even 7th place could well begood enough.
Liverpool FC and its supporters reputation have probably fallen close to, and I hate to say it, post Heysel levels. The worst thing about this is, they have made one player bigger than the club which is always a fatal mistake, and nobody is more guilty of this than Kenny Dalglish.
His approach to this by embracing the paranoid siege mentality element (which seems to be a sizable number) of the LFC support and using it to knit a closer squad is just going to fail if only because in doing so he has put one player over the rest and indeed the club. The players have had to tow the club line that they fully back Suarez even though people like Glen Johnson surely must be torn over this.
Ive said this before, the handling of this whole situation and how they have played it out will be the beginning of the end for Kenny Dalglish's second reign at Anfield. I would heavily bet he wont be in charge by Jan 1st 2013!!
His approach to this by embracing the paranoid siege mentality element (which seems to be a sizable number) of the LFC support and using it to knit a closer squad is just going to fail if only because in doing so he has put one player over the rest and indeed the club. The players have had to tow the club line that they fully back Suarez even though people like Glen Johnson surely must be torn over this.
Ive said this before, the handling of this whole situation and how they have played it out will be the beginning of the end for Kenny Dalglish's second reign at Anfield. I would heavily bet he wont be in charge by Jan 1st 2013!!
No not today, I'm off watching Sherlock.
That's a trifle unfair, football is tribal by nature, and fans generally tend to believe their own, as you would a family member, it only becomes unhealthy when you keep sticking to your guns despite evidence to the contrary. I can't recall saying much...I think I said something to Walrus(?) about the allegations needing to be proved, but I'm sure it was the case for most fans on Redcafe, it's only when the press released details of the use of a pejorative...that people actually started to give their opinions or got more involved in the debate(off the top of my head). But this place is fairly balanced as Sam said...sure Rednev cops it at times but I suspect he loves the attention. I can only speak from personal experience when I say folk are pretty tolerant, I made what many on here would regard as controversial posts about Giggs, but I didn't get abused...aside from Miss Giggs probably waving her clenched fist at the screen and telling me to feck off. I also said it's possible that Sir Matt and Sir Bobby might've not been particularly nice people...and again, it was tolerated - I suspect it might've not been the case on other football forums...but this place seems to be broad-minded. Sure, it can be tribal...but that's the game, but overall it's not that bad on here.
That said, it's made me realise the game is far too tribal....when the likes of Collymore...and indeed Evra are having vile racist abuse directed at them...you know there's something wrong with game. Perhaps people need to step back....and have a healthy detatchment from the game.
I haven't got the time either. I'm busy working myself into a lather over how terrible Hacks is.
I think what separates this forum (and most other ones too, most likely) from RAWK is that when there's a contentious issue to debate dissenting voices aren't automatically shouted down, insulted, then summarily banned for voicing their opinion or, to be more precise, an opinion that doesn't tally with the moderators'.
As for illogical fans: every club has them, and whether or not we have any more than Liverpool is impossible to quantify....although 'pool fans are unbelievably vocal when they've suffered a grievance (perceived or otherwise), which is probably a daily thing for for them.
As for illogical fans: every club has them, and whether or not we have any more than Liverpool is impossible to quantify....although 'pool fans are unbelievably vocal when they've suffered a grievance (perceived or otherwise), which is probably a daily thing for for them.
I didn't think you were having a pop at me, for what its worth! was just continuing the discussion - we probably can see where each other are coming from, and just have different opinions, which is all fine!
Yes, you stated this when the story first broke and my response was say, "Look at both men." One has a history of being quite the scumbag.
As I have stated, this is not a court of law, there is nothing wrong with looking at a man's past actions to say you believe on man over the other. No damage was done.
I find taking both men at their word when one has done things like biting another man on his shoulder completely absurd. That's basically criminal behavior. Evra has no history of making extreme statements. Got nothing to do with tribalism and now comparing RAWK's reactions today to ours when the news broke is embarrassing.
Mockney, hello mate. Happy New Year.
This board is quite balanced and objective on serious matters, whether its opposition players or indeed our own. Look back at the reaction to Ronaldo during the summer of 2008 or during Rooneys shenanigans last season. They were as vitriolic in their condemnation as we were with terry each and every time he has shown himself to be a bad haircut from the glue sniffing turf of Dagenham and Barking.
I have no doubt whatsoever that if any of our players was found to be guilty of the actions that the racist from Klanfield was found to be, at least 80% of United posters on this board would be unified in their total condemnation of him and 50% would want him out of the club.
And if SAF and the club backed such a player the way KKK and his henchmen have Suarez so far, I would think a very big group of people might even abandon the club for good .... I would certainly consider it.
(Oh, and our mods would allow for a debate to be had and all views to be aired, as long as they were respectful of other posters and within legal boundaries UNLIKE the PRAVA mentality of RAWK. That is just unbelievable that you are only allowed to post if the mods agrees with you
There is no two ways about it .... Liverpool FC is a shadow of its former self and any semblance of class and prestige that it once had was lost years ago. I refer back to when Alan Smith had his horrific eye popping injury in 2005/6 in the FA cup game vs Liverpool and the reaction of Liverpool fans mimicking sounds of an ambulance .... and then throwing glasses full of urine and faeces down upon the United fans below them. Im sorry but that is just the behaviour of animals. And its not a small minority. They plan these sorts of escapades with military precision, just like smashing up the loos at Old Trafford.
Liverpool Football club has been snowballing both in terms of footballing ability as well as ethics and class for a long time. I thought that with the return of Dalglish, a true Liverpool man, they would begin the upward curve, but he has made the self parody even worse.
Liverpool were once a classy club, much like the Huddersfield's, Wolves, Newcastle's and Sheffield Wednesday's from the past 100 years. But the reality is they are no more. I think fans from Newcastle, Chavski, Spurs and shitty have more class, let alone them getting anywhere close to the class and prestige of clubs like Everton, Aston Villa, Arsenal or Manchester United.
Dalglish has made so many fundamentally wrong decisions this past 4 weeks, I think he has put the club back a further 5 years than when he got his job. I cant see Suarez staying beyond the summer given the rightful abuse he will have to endure when he plays from opposing players and fan alike. And if they fail to qualify for the Europa Cup (likely) I cant see why any half decent player would ant to join them. Even if they got in a wealthy sheik, its still a 5 year project to just get into a position to challenge us or City, let alone win a title.
Before this sordid sequence of events started, that reality would have saddened me - I loved them as rivals and grew up with them as the rightful omnipotent force of European football .... but the actions of Suarez, followed by his clubs blind support of him, and then the attempted character deformation of the innocent and offended party, the manipulation and carefully laid booby traps, the misdirection and outright lying, the attempt to whip up mass hysteria ..... and all this from the clubs most senior managerial personnel .... its classless club run by classless people supported by classless fans who are proven wankers.
RAWK I fear is a pretty accurate representation of all things to do with Liverpool Football Club. And you know what, they are welcome 'to walk alone' .... for all I care, they can just feck off from the face of football.
There really is no need for all this "i'll stop supporting the club" or "want the manager out" business is there?
If this happened at United, I think the best course of action would just be for the fans to maybe have a boycott, a few banners, some protests, just enough for the club to realise that they did something wrong in backing the guilty player. What should then happen is a PR exercise with apologies and all that - it should be enough.
Kenny/Liverpool made a mistake, and I believe it to be just a case of being protective over their player. Had anyone, Kenny included really thought that Suarez was racist I think they'd have had him out of the club immediately. It was unfortunately just a case that they didn't believe him to be guilty and backed him blindly, probably influenced by his conduct in training and whilst at Liverpool.
All that needs to be done is for Liverpool to issue a statement accepting the charge, acknowledging that there will be some action against suarez privately, and clarifying that their official statements/Suarez shirt shenanigans was not in any way in support of racism.
Simple - case closed, we move on, maybe they lose some sponsors, but hey, no big deal, and the club will recover in time. No need to have all this talk about Liverpool being a disgrace and all that. Sadly though, i suspect even if they thought they were wrong now, they would never admit it publicly...they've just got this overly strong "us against the world" and "you'll never walk alone" bollocks mentality that will mean they'll never admit to a mistake like that.
Well to be fair, Evra does have a history of making "exaggerated & unreliable" statements. The FA said so. And Liverpool fans would see him as a niggly (unfortunate choice of words) feisty and loud mouth antagonistic competitor on the pitch.
My point being that once you let yourself be convinced on tribal lines, it then becomes much much harder to climb down from your position. We all like to say "If proved wrong I'll concede" but we also know it's much easier said than done.
There are a few posters on here who still wont concede arguments they lost years ago. Just look at fredthered.
I would say that one of the ways our response differs to RAWK's is their absolute refusal to accept that Suarez is often guilty of gamesmanship; and this refusal is yet another example of their general 'magical thinking' - they really do ignore past and current incidents which shame Suarez. We are more realistic and level-headed than this when it comes to the misdemeanours of our own players, be it Evra, Rooney, Ravel, whoever.
That, and we don't ban people for not towing the party line.
Well not that often.
Nazis.
Well not that often.
Nazis.
I think it has fallen lower than that. At the time, the media would perpetuate the myth about the knowledgeable, witty and fair minded Liverpool fan when those of us who actually ran the gauntlet of our annual visit knew what scum they actually were. Having said that, there was a widespread feeling amongst fans that Heysel was always lurking around the corner, in that it was an "accident" waiting to happen and it could've been any set of fans involved, although a many also thought it fitting that it had to be the loveable, knowledgeable and fair minded dipper. Still, times have changed and they really are a stand-out from your average match goer and not in the way they perceive themselves to be. There used to be a cockiness/arrogance about them as you'd expect from a successful trophy gathering machine but in recent times they appear desperate. We all have our own image of them at their worst and there's plenty to choose from. Despite their fans' behaviour, and I would never be surprised at the depths they'd sink to, my abiding memory that typifies the present day Liverpool is Carragher's assault on Nani and Gerrard's despicable response as he stood over the injured player. They've become a horrible, desperate outfit. The club itself has brought itself to the level of their followers.
Calling people Nazis is exactly how Nazi Germany started, chief.
Also, it's hard to believe that Liverpool boards would have threads objectively discussing Patrice Evra the player at the height of this controversy, as we had about Luis Suarez the footballer in the FF.
That's exactly it - there's an air of desperation about the club, from Dalglish attempting to safeguard his managerial future by backing his star asset, to the fans who desperately believe anything rather than concede that their club is simply not good enough.
Yeah, but you can explain his reaction - he is a dinosaur, and was playing to the galleries. Oooh, I know, this will get them singing my name louder.
But the club has a legal team, a PR team, a CEO and God knows what else...Not one person saw fit to not release a statement that looked ludicrous at the time, and with the release of the full report, reminds me of this guy
I can't wait to see Liverpool's "sexed up dossier" in reply to the FA's damning report.
Anybody know if there's any truth to this (from TLW) or is it just anti-Dalglish nonsense?
The FA publish written reasons for Suarez's ban - The Liverpool Way
The FA publish written reasons for Suarez's ban - The Liverpool Way
I've heard stories about Dalglish's intimidation tactics at meetings before, this is just from wiki
A piece from the Guardian on the same subject,
Focus: Gangsters, blackmail and sleaze in the ugly game | Football | The Observer
A piece from the Guardian on the same subject,
Focus: Gangsters, blackmail and sleaze in the ugly game | Football | The Observer
I don't think RAWK will enjoy today's press, now that the papers have had time to digest the report, with The Sun even suggesting that Police are studying the FA's 115-page report :
Race row news: Luis Suarez may face court charge | The Sun |Sport|Football
Liverpool left diminished by mishandled case - News & Comment - Football - The Independent
Liverpool under mounting pressure to abandon plans to appeal against Luis Suárez’s eight-match ban - Telegraph
Race row news: Luis Suarez may face court charge | The Sun |Sport|Football
Liverpool left diminished by mishandled case - News & Comment - Football - The Independent
Liverpool under mounting pressure to abandon plans to appeal against Luis Suárez’s eight-match ban - Telegraph
Liverpool - the club's image has been damaged more than Liverpool - the fan's. That's where the actual difference arises. The fans have been a bit mental, but I think most people can imagine a scenario that would make most sets of fans act irrationally (though not quite as irrationally) but the fact that this has been played to and encouraged irresponsibly by the club is what is most disappointing in all this RE:Liverpool
He's mates with a guy in the Formby/Southport area who had a hand grenade thrown at his house by rival gangsters.
Uh-oh, I smell more excuses coming after reading this bit
Their own lawyer was obviously a United agent set to sabotage the whole trial!
Yeah, that'll be picked up and picked apart. At RAWK, that he worked for the FA before at all was a problem in itself.
If this is true, then they've brought this entire thing on themselves. Bloody hell. It's just stark amateurishness.
They said they wanted a charge brought, but then never lodged a complaint, but then went ahead and slandered Evra in their official statement anyway. So they either looked into it, decided there was no ground, but decided to be bullish and go after him anyway (which is irresponsible, unprofessional and petty) or just never bothered to look into it, and then just decided to rant and rail at the last minute when things didn't go their way (which is all the same things + amateurishness)
Everything that can be laid at the fans has come straight from the club. I'm absolutely staggered they've been allowed to be this inept. Don't they have lawyers and advisors and such forth?
Th club are the main reason for the fan reaction imo. Any large enough set of fans will have a moron representation, but in this case the morons are basically just repeating what the club said. Dalglish in particular has been disgracefully thick throughout.
It's not the first time in recent years that Liverpool FC have encouraged fan based idiocy though. When they got to the CL final in 2007 the club actively encouraged fans to travel to the match without tickets...so they did...and there was a massive riot due to so many people being there without tickets...then the club tried to blame UEFA for being "irresponsible" with their security arrangements.
I don't think you'll find too many people outside of Liverpool's actual support base who consider them a "great" club anymore.
Actually scrap that. Turns out that the only connection Dalglish had to the guy was that they were neighbours.
We've been asking the same thing. It's nothing short of shocking or any word that's similar to shocking...a more powerful word would be better and if there's one it's that word. This is a major institution we're talking about but their behaviour wouldn't look out of place at Stalybridge Celtic.
No holds barred from the press today - even Dalglish's intelligence & morality is being questioned:
(Independent)
Lipton's report in the Mirror equally as damning.
Luis Suarez and Patrice Evra racism row: Why Liverpool chiefs should forget appealing the Suarez ruling - Opinion - MirrorFootball.co.uk
Luis Suarez and Patrice Evra racism row: Why Liverpool chiefs should forget appealing the Suarez ruling - Opinion - MirrorFootball.co.uk
Many of them have been crying press victimisation all the way through, but the press have been restrained on Dalglish, who several other forums have singled out for blame, especially regarding the evidence that the first thing he said was "hasn't he done this before?"...which then magically ended up on Kristen Walsh's twitter leading up to the verdict and the official club statement after it (which still hasn't been removed as far as I know)
Anyone else without such a standing in the game would've come in for far more scrutiny and criticism than King Kenny. Shit, if Ferguson was found to have made such an incorrect, knee jerk assumption about one of their players (which then appeared officially and through many club sources, almost like propaganda) they'd be campaigning to get him de-knighted through a mass email deluge and avatar changing protest.
I've always thought that Dalgish was a bit of a cnut but this confirms the sheer scale of his cnuttery.