Evra accuses Suarez of racist remarks | Suarez guilty of racial abuse

Every single one of our resident scousers on here have shown themselves up over this issue. I just wish at least one would read the report! Or I suppose could read it ;)

Or even prepare and research before talking about the 'race card' claims and that Evra has racially abused someone before.
 
If you haven't read the report, how can you know what comments you think he's condoning?

How old are you, out of interest?

Well at the risk of sounding patronising, there was a little coverage about the case in the media.

Doesn't really matter how old I am, it's not really relevant.
 
Heehee . That must be the reason they've not read it, but you'd think one person in Liverpool must be able to read? They teach it in prison, right? :)

Thing is, we were lead to believe we had some reasonable, semi-intelligent scousers on here, yet all have crumbled under the most basic reasoning.

It's not even mildly challenging to lead them to say exactly what you want before mocking them.

Bring back Davo I say!
 
Well at the risk of sounding patronising, there was a little coverage about the case in the media.

Doesn't really matter how old I am, it's not really relevant.

:lol:

There was ample coverage for those who wanted the insight into how the FA came to their decision.
 
Well at the risk of sounding patronising, there was a little coverage about the case in the media.

Doesn't really matter how old I am, it's not really relevant.

It is relevant in terms of trying to work out how much we should blame on age and how much on genetics.
 
Aah, the real victim. Now there's a can of worms. Please don't paint Evra as any sort of victim, the guy could start a fight in an empty room. He's fought a Chelsea groundsman and a French fitness coach. He's both played the race card himself and make racist comments about other players. By all accounts he started the argument with Suarez by making an apparently sexist remark about a family member, which Suarez, admittedly, fell right into the trap.

He's a nasty piece of work on the pitch - like a lot of players, yes - but there seems few redeeming features in his personality off it. He's most certainly not a victim.

So much wrong in this abomination of a post.

Evra has never made race accusations against anyone before this incident. This is a smear orchestrated by Liverpool fans, designed to discredit him. You show yourself up as ignorant and misinformed by spreading it.

Evra has never racially abused an opponent. If you can't understand the context of a tongue-in-cheek internet video, clearly meant in jest, and racially abusing an opponent during an on-pitch argument, then you're not worth anyone's time.

The phrase Evra is alleged to have to Suarez translates literally as 'your sister's pussy' but is rarely understood this way. It is understood as an exclamation similar to 'fecking hell' and was understood as so by Suarez who didn't admit any offence during the tribunal. Even if he did decide to suddenly take the literal meaning, he doesn't even have a sister!

And how the hell is Evra not a victim when he was racially abused? Is it ok to racially abuse people because you don't like them personally? When people tag Liverpool fans as racism apologists, it's unfair, but people like you don't do much to dispel it.
 
Well at the risk of sounding patronising, there was a little coverage about the case in the media.

Doesn't really matter how old I am, it's not really relevant.

Oh dear :(

I think you need to both read up on what patronising means, then read what the coverage in the media said. I'm assuming you know what the word 'read' means though right?

As for the age thing, I'm just making sure you are safe to be on this site as there is an age limit.
 
May I ask why you did not do it before you posted?

Because like most of the idiots who spout this kind of bullshit, you know the ones, them sharing the poster on facebook, will only read up on something once they think they've been proven wrong, in an attempt to prove themselves right, only to be left disappointed. Why let silly things like facts get in the way of a good rant?
 
Oh dear :(

I think you need to both read up on what patronising means, then read what the coverage in the media said. I'm assuming you know what the word 'read' means though right?

As for the age thing, I'm just making sure you are safe to be on this site as there is an age limit.

No, it was all used in the correct context.
 
I'm sure Greg was joking all along. Or he'd only had chance to read Liverpool's statement of December 20:


It is also our opinion that the accusation by this particular player was not credible - certainly no more credible than his prior unfounded accusations.
 
Every single one of our resident scousers on here have shown themselves up over this issue. I just wish at least one would read the report! Or I suppose could read it ;)

I would need to re-read the relevant sections to be sure - but it seemed to me on later reflection that there is some interesting cross-confirming evidence in there...

Evra reports Suarez as using an unusual form of the 2nd-person pronoun - one which had comment upon it at the hearing and after it. The more usual way of saying 'you' was different to what Evra remembered - but his version, whilst more unusual, was stated to be possible. Obviously the verb was conjugated appropriately.

In the original Comolli report in the ref's room he used the same 'unusual' form of expressing the meaning to recount what was actually said by Suarez. He also, independently, confirmed the overall sentence to effectively translate as 'Because you are black' - at that time. That 'overall meaning' was the same that Kuyt originally reported from his conversation with Suarez in Dutch. (Obviously they were asked to change their stories later).

That the original versions were correct (and Suarez was lying when he later changed it) was confirmed not just by the fact that the 2 separate conversations in different languages had produced the same version of the account Suarez gave - and also by it matching Evra's testimony - but also by the fact that both Comolli and Evra gave the same 'unusual' usage as the spanish spoken by Suarez.

Evra, Comolli, and Kuyt all confirm both what was said, and (2 out of 3) how it was said. Yet scousers reckon the panel had no reason to disbelieve Suarez's modified account.

...

Then there's the 'conciliatory pinching' (which counsel had to retract) - Kuyt's fictional account of what Evra had said to the ref (it didn't match the accounts given by Evra and the ref - which dovetailed), etc, etc.

Wonder if Greggy can manage to read that? If he's still peddling the 'previous' line he hasn't followed much of the discussion here tbh.
 
As I said in the RAWK thread, a mate of mine who's a city lawyer (he's a Sheffield United fan and has no dog in this fight) read the whole report out of legal interest.

He said the thing that came across most strongly was what an absolute shambles Liverpool's legal preparation was.

He also said that with the conflicting evidence, retractions and contradictions, the panel had absolutely no choice but to conclude that Suarez was lying, and that it was pretty apparent that the club was lying too.

Evra may not have been the perfect witness but the disparity was huge. In a case where it's to a large extent one person's word against the other, your general impression of trustworthiness or un- has a massive effect on the outcome.
 
:lol: nice reply, there's hope for you on here yet! Now you just need to relax and actually read up on the stuff about Evra and see what's fact and fiction and we may get somewhere ;)

No way, i don't want to read anything that may prejudice my views on Evra - imagine if I read something good about him.

Ignorance is bliss.
 
As I said in the RAWK thread, a mate of mine who's a city lawyer (he's a Sheffield United fan and has no dog in this fight) read the whole report out of legal interest.

He said the thing that came across most strongly was what an absolute shambles Liverpool's legal preparation was.

He also said that with the conflicting evidence, retractions and contradictions, the panel had absolutely no choice but to conclude that Suarez was lying, and that it was pretty apparent that the club was lying too.

Evra may not have been the perfect witness but the disparity was huge. In a case where it's to a large extent one person's word against the other, your general impression of trustworthiness or un- has a massive effect on the outcome.
What I liked about that convergence of testimonies though was the way that it meant at least one piece of the picture really did not have to rely much on Evra being trustworthy and his account matching the video, compared to Suarez changing his mind and testifying completely against the recorded events.

Those converging accounts, and the way an unusual verbal usage was confirmed by two completely independent witmnesses, make a compelling case for that being the truth.
 
What is sad is that too many rational thinking people have seen the fancy headline and gone along with it. After all, a poster wouldn't lie, and who needs any more excuses to hate Fergie and United even more. I decided to let this one go until my blue mate posted it directly to me, at which point I had to respond. The whole thing's utter bollocks. The worst thing on the list that Fergie did was not to fine/suspend/punish Giggs for his affair. Anyway:

1. The club banned Cantona straight away and fined him.
2. Keane didn't end Haaland's career, an injury to his other knee did. Apparently he played the week after.
3. Rio took the drug test shortly after the testers left, he tested negative for everything
4.Wayne Rooney was neither married nor a United player at the time of said extra-marital affairs.
5. I don't recall Fergie ever once condoning it. Why should he condone or condemn it? Nothing to do with him, and it didn't affect his on-field performance.
Good job on all points. The other big difference that is lost on LFC fans and the fans of that after those incidents, the players didn't exacerbate the issues. Cantona didn't come back only to go spit on a fan in his first start after the suspension. Keane didn't kick Haaland in the balls the next time they saw each other (tbf, I'm not sure if they ever saw each other again). Rio didn't celebrate the end of his suspension by lighting up a bong on TV. Rooney and Giggs may have had more affairs (we don't know for sure), but they has feck all to do with football.

Fergie's comments were not a result of Suarez blanking Evra, but rather a combination of the racial slur AND the refusal to shake hands, as well as his other behavior regarding this in the last few months.
 
Well at the risk of sounding patronising, there was a little coverage about the case in the media.

Doesn't really matter how old I am, it's not really relevant.

You spouted a trainload of lies and bullshit, maybe if you had some knowledge you wouldn't look so ridiculous now and people wouldn't be asking your age.
 
What I liked about that convergence of testimonies though was the way that it meant at least one piece of the picture really did not have to rely much on Evra being trustworthy and his account matching the video, compared to Suarez changing his mind and testifying completely against the recorded events.

Those converging accounts, and the way an unusual verbal usage was confirmed by two completely independent witmnesses, make a compelling case for that being the truth.

Agreed, that does seem very solid.

More broadly, it's been amazing to watch Liverpool's fans throw themselves into the essentially religious process of selectively reading the document to support a predetermined conclusion. I never associated their bonkers fans before with the decline of the club, but now I suspect the two are part of the same dynamic. It's as if the club itself has been swallowed up by the paranoid, cult-like mentality of its fans.

The gap between our clubs in terms of basic professionalism is much greater than the gap in footballing terms... and that's 19 points, in mid-February.
 
As I said in the RAWK thread, a mate of mine who's a city lawyer (he's a Sheffield United fan and has no dog in this fight) read the whole report out of legal interest.

He said the thing that came across most strongly was what an absolute shambles Liverpool's legal preparation was.

He also said that with the conflicting evidence, retractions and contradictions, the panel had absolutely no choice but to conclude that Suarez was lying, and that it was pretty apparent that the club was lying too.

Evra may not have been the perfect witness but the disparity was huge. In a case where it's to a large extent one person's word against the other, your general impression of trustworthiness or un- has a massive effect on the outcome.

Oh, it was a shambles, no one will argue with that.

And while Suarez let Liverpool down on Saturday, Liverpool let him down by putting forward a poor, unorganised defence - we'd have been better off sending Reina, Johnson, Enrique, Agger and Skrtel - a much better defence - BOOM - sorry!

Seriously, if you're going to defend a man, so vehemently back him then provide him with the best legal team you can find.

Liverpool have dealt with it shambolically, I've winced at some things they've said and done, and agreed with one or two others things. All Liverpool fans I've discussed it with feel the same, but regardless, they're my team, I'll back them all the way....especially where Man Utd are involved.

It's what football fans all do best.
 
Aww it's only a little fun!

Besides, he's already found out for himself one huge myth about Evra isn't true, just imagine what else he can learn!

Fair enough, it makes me cringe and hurts my heart to see such misinformed ignorance.

I guess my retirement plan of being a teacher isn't gonna work.
 
All Liverpool fans I've discussed it with feel the same, but regardless, they're my team, I'll back them all the way....especially where Man Utd are involved.

In football matters that's as it should be. But racial abuse is a more serious thing, and even though Suarez was innocent until proved guilty, the default assumption among fans and club shouldn't have been that the charge was made up maliciously, just because it was laid by United/Evra.

Which isn't to say Evra's not a bit of a dickhead - he clearly is. So is Suarez. The question was which of two unstable multi-millionaire twats was lying more than the other one, and pure tribalism shouldn't have provided an immediate answer.
 
In football matters that's as it should be. But racial abuse is a more serious thing, and even though Suarez was innocent until proved guilty, the default assumption among fans and club shouldn't have been that the charge was made up maliciously, just because it was laid by United/Evra.

Which isn't to say Evra's not a bit of a dickhead - he clearly is. So is Suarez. The question was which of two unstable multi-millionaire twats was lying more than the other one, and pure tribalism shouldn't have provided an immediate answer.

Suarez beats Evra (and pretty much every footballer who isn't Deco) hands down in the who's the biggest twat contest, to be fair. I can't believe if he played for us that I'd be blind to this. I thought Ronaldo was a complete twat and he's a fecking hero of nobleness compared to Suarez.

Also, I know a few Liverpool fans who have taken a sensible view from the start. I watched the game with one of them and he was branding Suarez a pathetic baby after the handshake thing.

In fact, I don't "know" any Liverpool fans who've behaved as they've managed to portray themselves as having done so as a collective. I'm not convinced that the portrayal hasn't ended up being a bit unfair on the reality. Dickheads invariably shout louder.