Evra accuses Suarez of racist remarks | Suarez guilty of racial abuse

The negrito defence was weak enough, given it was an argument between two people who are clearly not friends.

If he called him a negro, which has no affectionate connotations, then he doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Probably why Liverpool are pulling out all the desperate 'not a racist' club shit.
 
Telegraph has a good article about the case reporting that Suarez admits he called Evra Negro.

Suarez defence is based on the premise that he did not know after living in Europe for 3 years that the term had an offesnive meaning.

So is Suarez defence he is a dumb and ignorant? I think he might be right.
 
Telegraph has a good article about the case reporting that Suarez admits he called Evra Negro.

Suarez defence is based on the premise that he did not know after living in Europe for 3 years that the term had an offesnive meaning.

So is Suarez defence he is a dumb and ignorant? I think he might be right.

Racism is just a form of ignorance.

All racists are basically ignorant.

Shouldn't be a legit defence.
 
One quick question: Has anyone currently at Manchester Utd ever used the word negro, negrito, or a variation with one another? For whatever reason? If you don't know, do you believe it may have been uttered?

(and you're right, I am looking in Hernandez's direction)

One quick question back. What is the relevance?
 
They are trying to use examples of it in the past, the use of this word 'Negrito'. Dani Pacheco, the Liverpool player on loan, recently sent a twitter message to his Spain Under-21 colleague Thiago Alcântara. "Negrito, enjoy yourself," it said.

But Thiago isn't a black man. Plus they are friends and team-mates.

When you use that word to a black man who isn't your friend or team-mate, and you're in the middle of a heated argument, surely everybody can understand why Evra took offense to it.
 
By Henry Winter
Thursday December 15 2011
IN A North-Western hotel suite off the M6, three wise men are sitting in judgment on Luis Suárez, attempting to unravel one of the most complicated disciplinary cases ever dealt with by the Football Association.

They must rule on linguistic issues, cultural differences, body language while ensuring that the subtleties of the story are not lost amid FA politicking.

The charge facing Suárez is that he “used abusive and/or insulting words and/or behaviour” towards Manchester United’s Patrice Evra at Anfield on Oct 15. It is “alleged that this included a reference to the ethnic origin and/or colour and/or race of Patrice Evra”, the FA adds.

Evra, who is adamant he was racially abused 10 times, has the backing of his manager Mr. Ferguson and his club.

Suárez, who will admit using the word “negro” once, will argue that it is a descriptive expression, and not deemed offensive in his native Uruguay, and that it is similar to Dirk Kuyt getting called “blondie” by the South American players at Anfield.

Suárez categorically denies the racism charges and enjoys the total support of his manager, Kenny Dalglish, and Liverpool’s owners, John W Henry and Tom Werner.

The Americans will submit testimony supporting their player while Dalglish will attend the hearing in person.

Liverpool are also expected to use evidence from a linguistic expert.

In defending Suárez, Liverpool are expected to mention the incident between Evra and Chelsea’s groundstaff in 2008 which culminated in an FA hearing which concluded that “we find Mr Evra’s account exaggerated and unreliable”.

This is a case of deep detail between two well-known footballers and a broad picture of a governing body engaged in a long-running feud with Fifa president Sepp Blatter. The three men on the panel must guard against letting the FA’s desire to be seen to be strong on racism, so highlighting one of Blatter’s many weak points, clouding their judgment. Reputations are at stake.

The experienced three-man panel, which gathered on Wednesday afternoon, is chaired by Paul Goulding QC, who comes from the same Blackstones chambers as Adam Lewis, the barrister employed by the FA in Wayne Rooney’s successful Uefa appeal last week.

Goulding, a qualified FA coach, appeared for Jean Tigana in his successful claim following his sacking as Fulham manager and has advised Premier League clubs and players in the past.

Also involved is Brian Jones, the chairman of Sheffield and Hallamshire FA who wrote to all his county members on June 20, stressing the need to fight discrimination. The third member is Denis Smith, well respected within the game following his time as a defender at Stoke City and managing clubs such as Sunderland and Oxford United.

Two representatives from the FA secretariat are present but Goulding, Jones and Smith will rule on Suárez, possibly on Friday.

The allegations centre around the second half of the 1-1 draw at Anfield. Events started in the 57th minute when Suárez fouled Evra, tempers really flaring at an ensuing Liverpool corner. Amid some pushing and shoving, Evra demanded to know from Suárez why he had kicked him. Suárez replied that things happen in games and to move on.

It is here that Evra claims Suárez first became racially abusive; the Frenchman was subsequently quoted on the French station Canal Plus, saying that “there are cameras, you can see him [Suárez] say a certain word to me at least 10 times’’. Suárez categorically denies using that word, negro, in the goalmouth.

Watching events from the press box, it was pretty clear that Evra was incensed yet the players around seemed unaware of any dispute. The testimony of those closest, United’s David de Gea and Liverpool’s Dirk Kuyt, will play a part.

There is an expectancy that it will be confirmed to the panel that nothing offensive was heard in the goalmouth.

Shortly after the corner, referee Andre Marriner called the pair together for a lecture. Suárez apologised and attempted to pat the United full-back on the head. “Don’t touch me, you South American,’’ Evra is alleged to have said. To which, the Uruguayan replied: “Porque, Negro?’’

Suárez’s defence rests on the argument that such expressions are commonplace in South America. It is considered offensive, according to Suárez’s defence, only when used with a pejorative adjective or when the tone is aggressive. Footage of Suárez’s body language will be scrutinised by the panel.

This will inevitably form part of Liverpool’s case, that when Suárez did use the word “negro” he was not in aggressive mood, more apologetic towards Evra.

Yet Suárez must prove he was unaware of the sensitivity towards the word “negro” in England. The former Ajax player will also have to explain why, having lived for three years in Holland, he had still to grasp northern European intolerance to such a word.

Despite Marriner’s intervention, Evra remained furious. When he caught Kuyt two minutes later, Evra responded to Marriner’s caution by allegedly claiming: “You’re only booking me because I’m black.’’

Suárez is bemused by the case. “I called him something his team-mates at Manchester call him, and even they were surprised by his reaction,’’ Suárez claimed in the immediate aftermath of the incident.

Much will depend on whether Liverpool can convince the panel that Suárez does not have racist tendencies.

They are expected to point out that Suárez made a video in South African townships during the 2010 World Cup called “From the Streets to the Fields”. He hails football’s “tremendous power of joining people, without any skin, religion and social discrimination”.

Liverpool’s work in combating racism is sure to be mentioned. As is their owners’. Henry has been instrumental in celebrating the life of Jackie Robinson, the legendary black baseballer, at the Boston Red Sox which he owns.

In focusing on increasing diversity at Fenway Park and funding school scholarships for those from disadvantaged parts of Boston, Henry told National Public Radio in October that “we have to make a statement not just in baseball but in our community that diversity is an issue that hasn’t been fully addressed in the past and certainly has to be fully addressed.

"I think it’s important what your actions are. That will really define the franchise going forward’’.

Liverpool’s reputation would be damaged if Suáarez were found guilty of such a heinous offence.

That is why the panel must stay clear-eyed, ignoring FA tensions with Blatter over racism. Goulding, Jones and Smith must focus on one man’s word against another, and whether to accept cultural differences.

..
 
Despite Marriner’s intervention, Evra remained furious. When he caught Kuyt two minutes later, Evra responded to Marriner’s caution by allegedly claiming: “You’re only booking me because I’m black.’’

That is the first I have heard of this.
 
They are trying to use examples of it in the past, the use of this word 'Negrito'. Dani Pacheco, the Liverpool player on loan, recently sent a twitter message to his Spain Under-21 colleague Thiago Alcântara. "Negrito, enjoy yourself," it said.

But Thiago isn't a black man. Plus they are friends and team-mates.

When you use that word to a black man who isn't your friend or team-mate, and you're in the middle of a heated argument, surely everybody can understand why Evra took offense to it.

The other aspect to look at is the change in defence from Suarez. He first off said that he didn't say anything and has only recently change his line of defence to cultural reasons which for someone who has lived in Northern Europe for a large period of time is a load of bollocks.

The key things in these arguments is always context. There is a massive difference between two friends on twitter and two opponents in a heated argument on the field.
 
'Despite Marriner’s intervention, Evra remained furious. When he caught Kuyt two minutes later, Evra responded to Marriner’s caution by allegedly claiming: “You’re only booking me because I’m black.’’

where has this 'quote' come from?
 
The other aspect to look at is the change in defence from Suarez. He first off said that he didn't say anything and has only recently change his line of defence to cultural reasons which for someone who has lived in Northern Europe for a large period of time is a load of bollocks.

The key things in these arguments is always context. There is a massive difference between two friends on twitter and two opponents in a heated argument on the field.

Exactly. Plus, you only have to look at Suarez' past history to know what type of person he is.
 
Exactly. Plus, you only have to look at Suarez' past history to know what type of person he is.

But is his past history relevant and also can the panel look into Suarez past history?

I dont think Suarez ever denied making the comments?
His defence has always been "context". However his "context" has always been from his perspective.
 
Has this Dumbstar cnut been on the marching powder or something?

feck me, the ignorance of some people.

If anyone in the United team called someone a negro on the pitch, I'd want the fecker bounced out
 
I couldn't give two fecks where you're from.
Next you'll be telling me you've got black friends.

Then don't try to big yourself up on an internet forum until you do know. F*ckwit. Everyone here is seeing you make an arsehole out of yourself.
 
They are trying to use examples of it in the past, the use of this word 'Negrito'. Dani Pacheco, the Liverpool player on loan, recently sent a twitter message to his Spain Under-21 colleague Thiago Alcântara. "Negrito, enjoy yourself," it said.

But Thiago isn't a black man. Plus they are friends and team-mates.

When you use that word to a black man who isn't your friend or team-mate, and you're in the middle of a heated argument, surely everybody can understand why Evra took offense to it.

Yes, which is why Suarez could well be punished. And should be.
 
I don't give two fecks where you're from. It's irrelevant.

Now don't be like that - maybe in his culture, being guilty means being innocent.
 
Is it just me or is Winter trying to make it out that Evra was being racist as well when he claims Evra said, "Don't touch me, you South American" ?
 
Is it just me or is Winter trying to make it out that Evra was being racist as well when he claims Evra said, "Don't touch me, you South American" ?

Winter only seems to be leaning one way throughout that piece and whilst I agree with the bit about the power politics going between the FA and FIFA, all this stuff about how the owners aren't racist and how Evra said this to Suarez to me create a biased article. Winter hasn't even considered what might culturally acceptable in one place isn't culturally acceptable in another. No balance at all.
 
Is it just me or is Winter trying to make it out that Evra was being racist as well when he claims Evra said, "Don't touch me, you South American" ?

He consistently tries to paint Evra in a bad light throughout, whilst talking up Suarez as an innocent wronged. Terrible journalism.
 
I don't think Suarez will be punished. Even if he gets convicted in the hearing, he'll probably win an appeal.

I have a feeling Liverpool will do anything it takes to get him off the hook, and that will be the deciding factor. The FA don't seem to like hard work.
 
What the feck to Henry's apparent efforts to combat racism in the US have to do with what Suarez did or didn't say to Evra on the pitch?

Says it all about Winter's bias that he's seriously suggesting the former should be discussed in relation to the latter. Absurd idea.
 

I'll give you wow... have you read some of the comments?:

Suarez doesn't have anything against the colour black per se, he's implying that he's not enamoured with how black people are generally. The fact that wherever black people live, violent crime and degradation - shootings, stabbings, muggings and looting go with it so much more than anywhere else. He's probably sick of that, sick of the liberal left's denial /excuse for it and sick of the persecution by the state of anybody who does say it (like tram woman the other day) in an attempt to cover it up.
Tomorrow it will be 'SUAREZ IS RACIST' all over again. No attempt to find out why. Truth nowhere to be seen.

Wow.
 
I'll give you wow... have you read some of the comments?:

Suarez doesn't have anything against the colour black per se, he's implying that he's not enamoured with how black people are generally. The fact that wherever black people live, violent crime and degradation - shootings, stabbings, muggings and looting go with it so much more than anywhere else. He's probably sick of that, sick of the liberal left's denial /excuse for it and sick of the persecution by the state of anybody who does say it (like tram woman the other day) in an attempt to cover it up.
Tomorrow it will be 'SUAREZ IS RACIST' all over again. No attempt to find out why. Truth nowhere to be seen.

Wow.

Wise words dressed up as sheer idiocy.
 
He consistently tries to paint Evra in a bad light throughout, whilst talking up Suarez as an innocent wronged. Terrible journalism.

Goes hand in hand with Winter.

The football reporting in the Telegraph just gets worse & worse, they almost all hate United and even the ones who profess to like us you're hard pressed to tell.

It used to have really good sports coverage, but it's generally pretty shit now and Winter is the biggest culprit.
 
No doubt that was posted by somebody with the username "LFC4evaYNWASuarez7"

No, to be fair, I think this contributor was much more interested in white power than either red football team.

LFC4evaYNWASuarez7 probably posted this gem though:

Evra needs to be punished, his intentions are directed at trying to get the upper hand when things are going against his team.
For Evra to say “You’re only booking me because I’m black.’’ to the refree clearly shows that he is pulling the racism card on purpose. Evra is the one asking for trouble due to his words and body language. Clearly there is no place for this in football.

It should be identified that rivalries aside, both evra and fergusmoan are only trying to take advange of the situation to make things in there favour.

I pity ant man utd supports if evra is found to be the culprit, it will show that they are a team that has bad intentions at heart.

There still upset they are out of the CL, how childish.

The final two words are possibly the most ironic thing I've ever seen on the internet.
 
someone should point out to HW that the thing at Chelsea was reported by Mike Phelan not Evra, but dont let the facts get in the way of stirring shit
 
:lol:

There's only one person who looks like an idiot here.

I'll call you out whenever I want. I don't give two fecks where you're from. It's irrelevant.

I’ve grown up in the late 70s and 80s with skinheads telling me where I should go. I’ve been called P*ki for as long as I can remember. My mum and dad have suffered violence because of their skin colour. I’ve grown up with teachers, neighbours, shopkeepers who seemed to think I was in the wrong place.

White kids would bully me as I was an easy target. But I’ve learned to live on and learned to forgive. And time brought healing and change for the better so no real harm done. Thankfully I live in London, one of the best cities in the world now.

Yes Kraftwerker, to quote you, “I have black friends”. Is there anything else you would like to teach me about racism in this thread? Twat!
 
I’ve grown up in the late 70s and 80s with skinheads telling me where I should go. I’ve been called P*ki for as long as I can remember. My mum and dad have suffered violence because of their skin colour. I’ve grown up with teachers, neighbours, shopkeepers who seemed to think I was in the wrong place.

White kids would bully me as I was an easy target. But I’ve learned to live on and learned to forgive. And time brought healing and change for the better so no real harm done. Thankfully I live in London, one of the best cities in the world now.

Yes Kraftwerker, to quote you, “I have black friends”. Is there anything else you would like to teach me about racism in this thread? Twat!

If Suarez played for another club, I suspect your views would've been different.

Wanker.
 
I’ve grown up in the late 70s and 80s with skinheads telling me where I should go. I’ve been called P*ki for as long as I can remember. My mum and dad have suffered violence because of their skin colour. I’ve grown up with teachers, neighbours, shopkeepers who seemed to think I was in the wrong place.

White kids would bully me as I was an easy target. But I’ve learned to live on and learned to forgive. And time brought healing and change for the better so no real harm done. Thankfully I live in London, one of the best cities in the world now.

Yes Kraftwerker, to quote you, “I have black friends”. Is there anything else you would like to teach me about racism in this thread? Twat!

What a shame you're still so ignorant and wishing to trivialise it then, all because of club loyalties.
 
I find it hard to believe that Evra said "don't touch me you South American".

It's one of the most random and ridiculous insults, not to mention him being good mates with Tevez and all.
 
If Suarez played for another club, I suspect your views would've been different.

Wanker.

F*ck off yourself. If he's guilty then he should be punished. How many times have I already said that in this thread?

If you all get your head out of Kraftwerker's arse you'll learn to read my posts without getting a hard on for him.