Evra accuses Suarez of racist remarks | Suarez guilty of racial abuse

antohan said:
:lol:

1. You don't use affectionate terms with people you don't know

2. As a foreigner, the expectation/predisposition from the Mexican will be that you look down on him, so they are bound to take it as racist

3. It would be downright weird that a non-native speaker is making a point of addressing people that way

Don't
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Apart from the third point as Suarez is a native speaker (though it was weird anyway) he basically broke all those rules.
 
jojojo said:
At a guess, the ref confirmed that Evra was not smiling.

The other thing that makes me view it as deliberate, rather than an aberration brought on by a cultural misunderstanding, was the lack of an apology. The absence of a statement admitting an error, regretting it and promising it wouldn't be repeated.
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And the fact that once he'd allegedly said it once, maybe even twice, and had seen that it annoyed Evra, that he didn't think it was worth using another word.
 
jojojo said:
At a guess, the ref confirmed that Evra was not smiling.

The other thing that makes me view it as deliberate, rather than an aberration brought on by a cultural misunderstanding, was the lack of an apology. The absence of a statement admitting an error, regretting it and promising it wouldn't be repeated.
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Judging by the cack-handed way in which LFC have handled the outcome of the investigation I wouldn't be surprised if they had a role in the initial lack of an apology.

Pure speculation here but the whole thing stinks of American marketeers terrified of having their 'brand' contaminated by one of their players using the word "negro" in a row with another player. People like that always assume the general public are dumb as a bag of rocks, so would rather embark on a campaign of blanket denial, rather than explore the nuances of South American slang.
 
Pexbo said:
Catch up Pogue! This argument has been done to death.

Nobody is calling him Racist. He was charged for using racist language. If anything, someone who has grown up in a mixed race society or even family will know exactly what to say to get under their skin.



Two scenarios:

1. We're mates and having a pint and a game of pool for a few notes, you beat me and I say "Ah you bloody Paddy! Trust you to win anything with a pot of gold at the end of it!" You'd know I'm only messing around wouldn't take offence to it.

2. We're playing for opposite teams in a local derby football match, you go in for a sliding tackle on me and I turn to you and say "What's up Paddy? Trying to plough the feild to plant some potatoes?"


Both scenarios I'm using the term "Paddy", now obviously it isn't much of a Taboo, but you can see how the context can completely change the intent behind the word?
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So basically you agree with what I just posted.
 
kouroux said:
feck off Hansen.Retarded idiot, colored people ... :wenger:
At least he had the brains to quickly apologize unlike Suarez and his Liverpool gang
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So true. LFC could have dealt with this swiftly, blamed cultural differences and held their hands up, now it's snowballed and it's a beast that seemingly cannot now be tamed.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
So basically you agree with what I just posted.
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Indeed, I was just pointing out that it's been the general consensus since the argument "can you say something racist and not be racist"?


EDIT- I think Liverpool have dug themselves such a massive hole now that it'd be very difficult for them to go down the route they should have initially taken and actually apologise for the misunderstanding without looking like liars looking to deceive everyone to maintain their image.
 
Wonder if they'll be wearing Alan Hansen t-shirts before their next match.

Still making my blood boil they did that. He's NOT the fecking victim here.
 
Pexbo said:
Indeed, I was just pointing out that it's been the general consensus since the argument "can you say something racist and not be racist"?
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As someone pointed out here you don't have to be a card carrying Nazi to use racist language.
 
FlawlessThaw said:
Apart from the third point as Suarez is a native speaker (though it was weird anyway) he basically broke all those rules.
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Sure. There's no question he was using it to wind him up. We all know that, it's just the scousers in denial.
 
It is a fascinating day in the press. The amount of media coverage of Liverpool's outrage is almost drowning out the Terry story - surely a much bigger one for England and therefore the papers. I should imagine that in many ways this is a windfall for the FA who get to avoid a concentration on a subject they don't want to (and indeed can't) discuss.

Where is Evra in all this? I'm really happy with our policy of letting KKKenny and his pals dig their own graves but why are the gentleman of the press not trying to seek out our club's reaction? Or speculating on it with or without quotes - their usual style. The comments from journalists advising the pillowcase brigade to cool it are very buried under screaming headlines about the crucifiction and witchunting of that poor scouse lad. Bless. And now Hansen blunders in, further muddying the waters and feeding their sense of victimhood. If I credited any of these morons with brain cells, this would seem completely manufactured. It is more likely a coincidence but one that surely has to have some consequences in the long term? Surely.

Hopefully, this is just the penultimate scene where it seems as though the forces of evil are going to triumph (although Wigan and fat boy nicely screwed with the script); I genuinely didn't think I could feel greater contempt for these whinging losers but, looking over the papers this morning, I have somehow managed it.
 
paulthesinger said:
If you say something racist you are racist.
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There's a thread on this already. By definition you are not racist, by definition you are someone who has said something racist.

Racism is not an act but a belief that there is inferiority and superiority between the different races. It's possible to use a racist insult because you know it will wind the other person up while still believing that all races are equal.

It is no different to me calling someone a "fecking Binman". I don't believe that being a waste disposal technician is in any way a less respectful job than my own, but I know that there is a stigma attached to being a "Bin man" and that if I use it as an insult I will get the required reaction.
 
Pexbo said:
It is no different to me calling someone a "fecking Binman". I don't believe that being a waste disposal technician is in any way a less respectful job than my own, but I know that there is a stigma attached to being a "Bin man" and that if I use it as an insult I will get the required reaction.
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I don't know if you're old enough to remember the Granada TV comedy called "The Dustbinmen" One of the lead characters was a City fan who painted the names of their players on his donkey jacket. Just saying because it's got feck-all to do with the thread.
 
Look away now if you care about how football portrays itself because a great institution is falling on its irresponsible sword. There is no opprobrium too great to be levelled at Liverpool because at the heart of this sorry episode - bad enough to begin with, worsening by the day because of the club's not-sorry sorry response to a shame of their own escalation - is their absolute refusal to remember who they are.

Remove the tribalism for a moment and all football fans should be able to agree that Liverpool are a great institution within the game. Now put those blinkers back on because it's all that Liverpool - a great institution turned blind by their own one-eyed irresponsibility - deserve. If they don't want to see the wider responsibilities a great institution is beholden to uphold then nobody else ought to adjudge them from a neutral perspective. If they want to see everyone out to get them then let them see it.

There's a 'hear no evil, see no evil' line in here somewhere because the first pitiful retort to the playing staff's misguided show of support for Luis Suarez before the game at Wigan is the reminder that, as per the club's own statement, not one of them heard the exchange between Suarez and Patrice Evra. No matter. He's one of them and the other isn't. Case closed.

Truly, did nobody at the club stop to consider what sort of message their Suarez shirts sent out? Can it really be true that nobody at Liverpool Football Club remembered that their name lists Football as well as Club? Was it really so hard to spot the benefits which would have been accrued for all concerned - including the club, including Suarez himself, including the game - if the entire playing staff had lined up in anti-racism shirts?

Apparently not. And here's the message that Liverpool, a great institution turned in on itself without a single dissenting thought for a wider perspective, spelt out last night: English football has turned absolutely tribal.
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Winners & Losers | Football365
 
Liverpool's antics have only one purpose: to get the attention off that he was charged as being a racist
 
the moment he admitted using that word to Evra, I knew he was done.


Its a variation of the 'I did not mean to push him so hard' defence.

But you did push...

It does not matter what you meant. In the circumstances there was just no need to use that word. It was not a friendly social setting. Suarez was trying his best to get Evra angry enough to get himself sent off by physically retaliating.

...and the scousers are defending this scum. They are lower cretins than him.
 
shut up pepe. God this is making me sick. Liverpool are jsut killing themselves. They're making the club and their players look like fools. I bet you Glen Johnson is feeling very uncomfortable right now because I would.

I think Pexbo made a good point in terms of what is racism and the fact that all connected with Liverpool cant really seem to see this is terrible.

For the love of God, stop saying he's not racist! It sickens me that Liverpool is making this situation something it's not.
 
peterstorey said:
Alan Hansen has "unreservedly" apologised for twice using the word "coloured" to describe black footballers on Match of the Day on Wednesday evening when discussing the current John Terry and Luis Suárez racism cases.

Hansen, 56, the show's long-time pundit, said: "I unreservedly apologise for any offence caused – this was never my intention and I deeply regret the use of the word."
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Brophs said:
Hansen's done nothing wrong other than being a bit out of touch with the current lexicon which, for someone at his age, must feel like it's cyclistic in terms of what's acceptable. He's apologised and wouldn't, I'm sure, have used the term had he known it wasn't acceptable. I really don't think it's comparable to the Suarez issue, both in terms of scope or gravity.
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Agreed. End of matter.

Now, had the same been of the racist from Liverpool (it wasn't though, there was racist intent), and he immediately apologised in the dressing room and in public, it would all have ended there.

That Liverpool then got on their high horse, mistakingly thinking they had some sort moral position on this, and then Im sure, guided the racist from Liverpool down the path they went - thats why they find themselves in this situation.

And even then, it wasn't too late: had the racist from Liverpool shown some humility and offered an unreserved apology 2 days ago, after an independent body of experts came to their definitive ruling, then thats the end of the matter.

Liverpool FC have created the biggest PR mistake in English footballing history and I hope the book, the dog and the kitchen sink is now thrown at them.
 
I can't believe the players are sporting Luis Suarez shirts.

Glen-Johnson-007.jpg


fecking hell.
 
What are the chances of Suarez having his ban significantly increased after his appeal due to massive strop they're all throwing?
 
rcoobc said:
I can't believe the players are sporting Luis Suarez shirts.

Glen-Johnson-007.jpg


fecking hell.
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Funnily enough, I genuinely thought they would have come out by now and said "this is what I call my friend Glen Johnson, there is no problem with it"..... but funnily enough he doesn't seem to call his friend Glen Johnson "Negrito".
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Interesting to note the LFC statement has been taken down off their website. Obviously someone with a vague clue finally came into the office.
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I'm dying to see what way they go from here. Surely, SURELY in the cold light of day they can see what a pigs arse they've made of their reaction. Surely they'll start to back away towards a more humble, rational, apologetic position. If they don't? If they charge on in the direction they're going? How they can have let such an easily-resolved barney escalate to this is beyond me.
 
Still ill said:
I'm dying to see what way they go from here. Surely, SURELY in the cold light of day they can see what a pigs arse they've made of their reaction. Surely they'll start to back away towards a more humble, rational, apologetic position. If they don't? If they charge on in the direction they're going? How they can have let such an easily-resolved barney escalate to this is beyond me.
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They are in real danger of it really harming their club image.
 
Pexbo said:
There's a thread on this already. By definition you are not racist, by definition you are someone who has said something racist.

Racism is not an act but a belief that there is inferiority and superiority between the different races. It's possible to use a racist insult because you know it will wind the other person up while still believing that all races are equal.
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The key thing you miss here is that it logically follows that it is the act, not the belief, which must be taken into account and, where necesary punished. This is self-eveident on several levels:

1) We can't read people's minds, so even if we did want to punish people for their thoughts, we'll have to wait for Minority Report technology to show up.

2) It is wrong to punish people for their beliefes, whatever they are. This was a mistake that various despotic / communist etc governments have made.
By definition a belief is something that you genuinely hold yourself, and can't change just because somebody tells you you have to do so. Trying to outlaw will just drive it underground. Instead, the only way to tackle beliefs which most of us hold to be vile is through education and debate.

3) The victim is key here. It does not matter to the victim of racial abuse what the motivation of the abuser was, from their point of view the same offence has been comited.
 
fecking hell.

Just found this on the comments section of that LFC:

" I am infuriated with the FA decision I am half Spanish half English and the many words of banter I and my friends use include negrito, rubio even in the heat of the moment my black friends and I taunt each other about our race
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Speechless.
 
Sir A1ex said:
The key thing you miss here is that it logically follows that it is the act, not the belief, which must be taken into account and, where necesary punished. This is self-eveident on several levels:

1) We can't read people's minds, so even if we did want to punish people for their thoughts, we'll have to wait for Minority Report technology to show up.

2) It is wrong to punish people for their beliefes, whatever they are. This was a mistake that various despotic / communist etc governments have made.
By definition a belief is something that you genuinely hold yourself, and can't change just because somebody tells you you have to do so. Trying to outlaw will just drive it underground. Instead, the only way to tackle beliefs which most of us hold to be vile is through education and debate.

3) The victim is key here. It does not matter to the victim of racial abuse what the motivation of the abuser was, from their point of view the same offence has been comited.
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Exactly, and it is the act that is being punished in this case, not the alleged belief.
 
moses said:
They are in real danger of it really harming their club image.
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Which is a huge deal. Whatever you say about the feckers, they've got a sense of history, of tradition about their club that few in world football can match. That this stuff matters to their fans as it matters to us is what seperates Liverpool and United from arriviste wankers like Chelsea. A tarnished image for them would be a far more damaging legacy than an 8 match absence for that scrote.
 
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