wheel to wheel is a rather grandiose term for “i’ll just not brake until way too late, forcing you to take evasive action.”
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Brakes too late to cover off hamilton, outbreaks himself to make the corner and misses the apex completely. Ends up blocking Hamilton so he can't turn in and doesn't even make the corner himself running wide and keeping the position.
It's either a 5 second penalty or he should have been instructed to give the place back - just like ample of other similar incidents throughout the season had to.
You only have to go back to USA to see examples of Alonso and Raikkonen doing exactly the same things and having to give the position back.
They really messed this one up.
does look like he could have tried a little harder to keep the car somewhere vaguely close to the apex
Id be surprised if merc don't use this to make a complaint... given that diplomacy has now ended apparently
https://www.planetf1.com/news/toto-wolff-mercedes-diplomacy-ended/
I dont mind who wins - I just hope its won on track by racing (not taking the other one out) and that the points from spa dont decide it as it was joke of a decision to run behind a safety car all gp just enough laps so they dont have to refund fans
I think the telling thing is how he only slightly turns in before only turning fully when he already knows he is pushing both cars wide. Im convinced he did it on purpose. But even if he didn’t, it is a penalty either way so whether he did it with intention or not is largely irrelevant.
Former Alfa Romeo Formula 1 driver Antonio Giovinazzi will drive for the Dragon Penske
https://the-race.com/formula-e/giovinazzi-set-to-make-formula-e-switch-after-f1-exit/
Good for him...
https://the-race.com/formula-e/giovinazzi-set-to-make-formula-e-switch-after-f1-exit/
Good for him...
The steering wheel angle says it all, he was lucky to avoid a penalty.
indeed - I think if the stewards had that at the time they would have given him a 5 second penlty
now to see if merc raise the issue (I think they will) and if any retrospective action will be taken (im not so sure as its such strange situation)
Ugh, I'm geo blocked. There was another driver who missed the apex yet was turning the wheel a lot! So he wasn't trying?
He turned in lightly and only properly turned it fully when he was already way past the apex and when he knew the damage was done.
The more I watch it, for me the intent is clear. And perhaps, that warrants a stronger penalty than a 5 second penalty.
Thinking back to Silverstone, what is really the difference here? The only reason they crashed at Silverstone but not here is because Hamilton continued to go wide instead of continuing to turn in like Max did at Silverstone. Also Hamilton was miles closer to the apex then Max was.
It’s as if Hamilton is being punished (by Max not being punished) because he avoided the collision (sensible).
It’s truly bizarre.
Thinking back to Silverstone, what is really the difference here? The only reason they crashed at Silverstone but not here is because Hamilton continued to go wide instead of continuing to turn in like Max did at Silverstone. Also Hamilton was miles closer to the apex then Max was.
It’s as if Hamilton is being punished (by Max not being punished) because he avoided the collision (sensible).
It’s truly bizarre.
Diplomacy never existed.
The FIA's handling of this has been as pathetic as the move itself. Max will never be a multiple WC if he has to race fair.
I think Hamilton knows that Max is willing to go dirty to win. He was so alert to what would happen there that he avoided the collision and then negates the ability to do it next time around.
Hamilton has, let’s be honest, had it easy the last few years in terms of competition. I feel like he probably lost that edge that you need when in a fight in the trenches. But I feel like some of the challenges this weekend really rekindled that edge and the results show that he is truly an exceptionally talented driver. Not just a good driver in a great car.
Hamilton has, let’s be honest, had it easy the last few years in terms of competition. I feel like he probably lost that edge that you need when in a fight in the trenches. But I feel like some of the challenges this weekend really rekindled that edge and the results show that he is truly an exceptionally talented driver. Not just a good driver in a great car.
Yeah, the handling has been hopeless. I really hope they look back at this. They didn’t give any leeway to Hamilton when his wing was 0.2mm outside the range due to a malfunction or damage, in one particular corner of the wing. But it seems clear to me they are turning the other way from the rules when it relates to Max.
This, he barely attempts to make the corner and it’s plainly obvious from the onboard. Slam dunk penalty if the FIA were competent
Yeah, that’s a penalty, going by other incidents punished this season. He only fully turned in once he knew he’d forced Hamilton wide.
It was obvious from the overhead shot and a slam dunk with the onboard video.
Brilliant race though. So glad this seems to be going right to the wire!
Pretty clear what he was up to.
He wanted to run to the very outside of the track and force Lewis to back off, but he outbraked himself and couldn't get the nose in.
Nothing wrong with trying that but get it wrong like he did and its 100% a penalty.
hard to argue with that... unless your horner
https://the-race.com/formula-1/what-we-learned-from-missing-verstappen-and-hamilton-footage/
Utter stinker by the stewards who are racing drivers? I just have a little bit of sim racing experience but you can see what Max is trying to do, so how these guys can't is stupidity.
Anyway nothing can be done now retrospectively. Masi has to go.
Anyway nothing can be done now retrospectively. Masi has to go.
That was pretty blatant by Max. Should be penalized really. Did not really make any effort to turn until he knew it was too late.
is that the case - I thought Merc could ask for it to be reviewed based on new evidence (I assume the new onboard counts as that given its not artificially created afterwards like the evidence red bull submitted and was dismissed?)
Not sure they will do anything about it but i believe there is at least a route for merc to raise a complaint
The stewards are the one that made the decisions, not Masi.
It is new evidence youre right. But Lewis got the overtake done in the end so nothing doing now in my opinion. It was a simple "give the place back" or 5 sec penalty decision for me. A penalty that affects the next race is overstepping the mark.
Which is why I lambasted the stewards, the overhead showed enough evidence with the braking telemetry they would have had to atleast investigate. Masi is running the show though and the job is too big for him looking from the outside.
I'm fully expecting something along these lines -
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/...ons-british-grand.4tB8ExYNrCExZN3QXSPMUP.html
I think it will probably go nowhere in the end - though if max drives like that again there will be a penalty straight away so hes going to have to be really careful how he defends (that said given the performance of the merc I dont know if hes gonn be close to lewis after the 1st corner in any of the remaining GP.
Right, it's his fault that he couldn't magically produce the footage and also his fault that the he informed the teams of the stewards decision which he literally can't decide on.
He fecked up in other races, but blaming him for the last race is just plain ridiculous.
This. It’s has the same effect without having to physically steer towards the overtaking car.
The fact both drivers went off the track as a result, Max included, imo tells you what he was trying to do. You can brake late but he’s run off and took Lewis with him, blatant really.
The moment the entire car length of Lewis is about to pass he just leaves off the braking and pushes him wide.
What would have happened if Lewis got a puncture as a result, for example? It should definitely be a penalty of some kind imo.
The lack of defence for Max in this thread tells you all you need to know 
- Merc should send a link of this to the FIA. Max might end up disqualified for this coming weekend
- Merc should send a link of this to the FIA. Max might end up disqualified for this coming weekendThe devil's advocate position is to say that Hamilton wouldn't have made the corner regardless, and there's no way to prove that he would have in hindsight.
It's definitely a penalty though.
It's definitely a penalty though.
I wonder if Horner has got Albon on the simulator trying to create some late braking into turn 4 at Interlagos.
Is there anything in the rules factually about dealing with an incident already concluded upon in the race based on new evidence? Or is this relatively unknown territory?
Not saying he did, just interesting to hear the to and fro (and the “matey” chat at some points)
https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/1...atest-f1-racing-controversy-and-what-was-said
I am not sure, maybe if Mercedes appeal, who knows.
Is there anything in the rules factually about dealing with an incident already concluded upon in the race based on new evidence? Or is this relatively unknown territory?
Maybe best left, Lewis won despite the move.
It was a blatant penalty at the time, the stewards simply bottled making a decision hoping that Hamilton had the speed to make it past later.
There's no reason for Max not to drive in such an underhanded way, because it takes him driving on top of other drivers for him to actually get punished.
There's no reason for Max not to drive in such an underhanded way, because it takes him driving on top of other drivers for him to actually get punished.
Of course there's ways to prove that
What are braking points, speeds etc recorded for !?Not that it is needed. We can conclude Hamilton would have made the corner by knowing he managed to dodge someone trying to run him off the track and still make it back. With that sort of control he would have easily made it.
Except he made that corner on every other lap and got nowhere near that line.
And Max didn’t drive his line on any other lap.
Imagine how crazy this would have been if Lewis hadn’t managed to get past him later
Penalty all-day and the deafening silence from the Max Stans tells you everything you need to know about the defence.
I dont think it needs to be provenOf course there's ways to prove that
he didnt give room and hamilton was beyond the side to side limit therefore he hd to give room - if he chooses not to deliberately or if he simply misjudges it through error the fact remains he didnt give him the room he has to
and as the new camera footage shows it dows not look like max was putting in all his effort to hit the apex (and thats being generous)
First season watching F1 but what a season, so tight between Lewis and Max. Can’t wait for the final races. Feel like I’m lucky to jump in in such an even title race.