Fantasy Tournament: World Cup All-Time All-Stars

[antohan]

He was one of the options I was considering for the later pick.

Anto would not be glad.

Quite the opposite. From complete unknown to 7th round pick is not bad at all, very pleased for him.

I had him as an option but it's no biggie. His WC version was already a bit damaged (partially unsighted) but that didn't stop him being MotM in the final according to some sources.

And no Theon, no editing, whatever bullshit you said in the past is your own doing!

 

[Moby]

Quite the opposite. From complete unknown to 7th round pick is not bad at all, very pleased for him.

I had him as an option but it's no biggie. His WC version was already a bit damaged (partially unsighted) but that didn't stop him being MotM in the final according to some sources.

And no Theon, no editing, whatever bullshit you said in the past is your own doing!

Well I guess had it not been the constraint of having a certain amount of pre 70 players he would have been picked around the end.

Also, there is one player I think you really want and love to have in your team which is still left.

 

[Thisistheone]

So Ronaldo and Figo will be judged on their WC form and not club form, right?

Messi can't be far away.

 

[RoadTrip]

So Ronaldo and Figo will be judged on their WC form and not club form, right?

Messi can't be far away.

Figo has had numerous solid world cup performances. Figo superceeds Ronaldo and Messi in this draft format.

 

[RoadTrip]

Solid pick mate, your team is starting to look very strong.

Thanks mate. There were a couple of players I definitely wanted, Kempes and R.Carlos in particular, so had to change the set-up of my team a bit, and style. Looks like it's turning out OK though. Banking on a couple players still being free in the next two picks!

 

[Thisistheone]

Figo has had numerous solid world cup performances. Figo superceeds Ronaldo and Messi in this draft format.

Figo is not as bad as Ronaldo but still hasn't produced anything note worthy compared to his club form.

I'm now considering picking Messi.

 

[Annahnomoss]

Thanks mate. There were a couple of players I definitely wanted, Kempes and R.Carlos in particular, so had to change the set-up of my team a bit, and style. Looks like it's turning out OK though. Banking on a couple players still being free in the next two picks!

Yeah it is going to be a scary ending of this draft. I do, and I think most of us has these "unique" players to finish off the draft. Which is of course scary as chances are we all share some of them.

 

[RoadTrip]

Figo is not as bad as Ronaldo but still hasn't produced anything note worthy compared to his club form.

I'm now considering picking Messi.

Figo captained Portugal to their best ever World Cup finish in 2006 since Eusebio. He was part of the all star team and made a number of great performances in that World Cup.

 

[Theon]

And no Theon, no editing, whatever bullshit you said in the past is your own doing!

There was no bullshit from me there man, like I said in the discussion I've seen too much of Thuram to prefer someone else.

But yeah, don't you do back and edit your posts either if we draw each other!

It would be Andrade or Thuram and based on all I have read, heard and seen I would go Andrade.

It's not just me being Uruguayan, those pesky Thuram countrymen themselves rate him as the 10th best player to have graced the World Cup up to 1990. I doubt they would have shot Thuram up there on the back of 1998, good as he was in it. Sure, he is probably not at 10th once you include the World Cups since 1990 but it is extremely unlikely Lilian Thuram is among those surpassing him.

It's entirely about World Cup level performances and yes, they ARE saying Andrade's performance in 1930 was more significant than Cruyff's in 1974. No idea how they make that sort of call and not saying it makes Andrade better than Cruyff, just a very very good player, quite clearly.

If you don't like that take the IFFHS ranking, he is 29th on that, ahead of Franco Baresi at 32nd Lilian Thuram never did anything worthy of getting him anywhere close to that sort of company.

 

[RoadTrip]

Yeah it is going to be a scary ending of this draft. I do, and I think most of us has these "unique" players to finish off the draft. Which is of course scary as chances are we all share some of them.

Yeah I'll be shocked if my picks aren't picked up.

 

[Thisistheone]

Figo captained Portugal to their best ever World Cup finish in 2006 since Eusebio. He was part of the all star team and made a number of great performances in that World Cup.

Fair enough but I'm just saying his name is so much bigger than his World Cup performances suggest. If pace gets stick for a Rijkaard, this should be similar.

Ronaldo on the the hand? I'd view another Portuguese WC winger/forward player as a far better pick but it won't happen because of the name.

 

[Balu]

There was no bullshit from me there man, like I said in the discussion I've seen too much of Thuram to prefer someone else.

But yeah, don't you do back and edit your posts either if we draw each other!

Wow, those quotes. Can't believe Anto brought up the IFFHS ranking, that's embarrassing . I don't think there exists anything worse about football statistics and rankings than the IFFHS.

 

[Annahnomoss]

Figo was in the team of the tournament which Rijkaard wasn't. I think Figo is a pretty solid pick for WC performances alone. There aren't many top top class wingers.

 

[RoadTrip]

Fair enough but I'm just saying his name is so much bigger than his World Cup performances suggest. If pace gets stick for a Rijkaard, this should be similar.

Ronaldo on the the hand? I'd view another Portuguese WC winger/forward player as a far better pick but it won't happen because of the name.

I appreciate his club form never transpired to a WC but that does not inherently make him significantly worse. His WC performances were, IMO, still a lot better than many others. For round 7. I think he's a decent enough pick!

 

[Balu]

Pol 1. Maradona 2. P. Maldini 3. Breitner 4. Zizinho 5. Boniek 6. Ocwirk 7. Zito
Cal 1. Pelé 2. Sándor Kocsis 3. Gérson 4. Blanc 5. Overath 6. Cristiano Ronaldo 7. Lev Yashin
Aldo 1. Garrincha 2. Romário 3. Scirea 4. Gentile 5. Kempes 6. Ballack 7. Lizarazu
Theon 1. Beckenbauer 2. Zico 3. Baggio 4. Kohler 5. R. Carlos 6. Socrates 7. Andrade
Rpitroda 1. Zidane 2. Masopust 3. Varela 4. Desailly 5. Batistuta 6. Nasazzi 7. Figo
Paceme 1. Platini 2. Rijkaard 3. Djalma Santos 4. Thuram 5. Tigana 6. Ademir 7. Cabrini
Jayvin 1. Ronaldo 2. Cannavaro 3. Rivaldo 4. Brehme 5. Vieira 6. Coluna
Desert 1.Moore 2. Meazza 3. Passarella 4. Busquets 5. Makélélé 6.Pirlo
Annah 1. Didi 2. Iniesta 3. Ronaldinho 4. Stoichkov 5. Leonidas 6. Lahm
Crappy/Pippa 1. Fontaine 2. Krol 3. Kopa 4. Vogts 5. Dunga 6. Ruggeri
Fergus 1. Matthäus 2. Falcao 3. Rivelino 4. Nilson Santos 5. Karlheinz Förster 6. Chumpitaz
Balu/NM 1. Cruyff 2. Jairzinho 3. Carlos Alberto 4. Davids 5. Silvio Marzolini 6. Frank de Boer
Anto 1. Puskas 2. Neeskens 3. Bozsik 4. Czibor 5. Ghiggia 6. Junior
Gio. 1. Eusebio 2. Figueroa 3. Laudrup 4. Xavi 5. Keane 6. Da Guia
Cutch 1. Müller 2. Facchetti 3. Cafu 4. Santamaría 5. Cubillas 6. Bergomi
TITO 1. Charlton 2. Baresi 3. Zanetti 4. Schnellinger 5. Tardelli 6. Paolo Rossi

 

[Balu]

When is Jayvin usually online? Any chance we get this going a bit further?

 

[Thisistheone]

Figo was in the team of the tournament which Rijkaard wasn't. I think Figo is a pretty solid pick for WC performances alone. There aren't many top top class wingers.

Figo is by no means a bad as Ronaldo but still should not be viewed as the Figo we know from club level.

You can name plenty of other players who've made team of the tournament yet not been pick because their names not gonna win votes from casual voters.

 

[Annahnomoss]

Figo is by no means a bad as Ronaldo but still should not be viewed as the Figo we know from club level.

You can name plenty of other players who've made team of the tournament yet not been pick because their names not gonna win votes from casual voters.

I agree, but I think that is due to the scarcity of wingers. At least that is my impression of it. There will be more oddly picked wingers if people want to have width.

 

[Jayvin]

Juan Schiaffino

 

[Jayvin]

Pol 1. Maradona 2. P. Maldini 3. Breitner 4. Zizinho 5. Boniek 6. Ocwirk 7. Zito
Cal 1. Pelé 2. Sándor Kocsis 3. Gérson 4. Blanc 5. Overath 6. Cristiano Ronaldo 7. Lev Yashin
Aldo 1. Garrincha 2. Romário 3. Scirea 4. Gentile 5. Kempes 6. Ballack 7. Lizarazu
Theon 1. Beckenbauer 2. Zico 3. Baggio 4. Kohler 5. R. Carlos 6. Socrates 7. Andrade
Rpitroda 1. Zidane 2. Masopust 3. Varela 4. Desailly 5. Batistuta 6. Nasazzi 7. Figo
Paceme 1. Platini 2. Rijkaard 3. Djalma Santos 4. Thuram 5. Tigana 6. Ademir 7. Cabrini
Jayvin 1. Ronaldo 2. Cannavaro 3. Rivaldo 4. Brehme 5. Vieira 6. Coluna 7. Schiaffino
Desert 1.Moore 2. Meazza 3. Passarella 4. Busquets 5. Makélélé 6. Pirlo
Annah 1. Didi 2. Iniesta 3. Ronaldinho 4. Stoichkov 5. Leonidas 6. Lahm
Crappy/Pippa 1. Fontaine 2. Krol 3. Kopa 4. Vogts 5. Dunga 6. Ruggeri
Fergus 1. Matthäus 2. Falcao 3. Rivelino 4. Nilson Santos 5. Karlheinz Förster 6. Chumpitaz
Balu/NM 1. Cruyff 2. Jairzinho 3. Carlos Alberto 4. Davids 5. Silvio Marzolini 6. Frank de Boer
Anto 1. Puskas 2. Neeskens 3. Bozsik 4. Czibor 5. Ghiggia 6. Junior
Gio. 1. Eusebio 2. Figueroa 3. Laudrup 4. Xavi 5. Keane 6. Da Guia
Cutch 1. Müller 2. Facchetti 3. Cafu 4. Santamaría 5. Cubillas 6. Bergomi
TITO 1. Charlton 2. Baresi 3. Zanetti 4. Schnellinger 5. Tardelli 6. Paolo Rossi

 

[antohan]

There was no bullshit from me there man, like I said in the discussion I've seen too much of Thuram to prefer someone else.

But yeah, don't you do back and edit your posts either if we draw each other!

Why would I? I said his standing in the game is higher than that of Thuram, which isn't really that difficult to believe (except for you at the time, obviously).

 

[Theon]

Whatever man

 

[antohan]

Fair enough but I'm just saying his name is so much bigger than his World Cup performances suggest. If pace gets stick for a Rijkaard, this should be similar.

Ronaldo on the the hand? I'd view another Portuguese WC winger/forward player as a far better pick but it won't happen because of the name.

Figo is nothing like the Rijkaard case. The criterion isn't "you can't pick players who are more noted for their club than WC form". Figo was very good in the WC, not the same as peak Galactico Figo, but still had a pretty damn good tourno.

Wow, those quotes. Can't believe Anto brought up the IFFHS ranking, that's embarrassing . I don't think there exists anything worse about football statistics and rankings than the IFFHS.

In fairness, I did say I had no idea how they ended up with him ranked ahead of Cruyff or believed that meant he was a better player. Unfrtunately Theon was of the opinion I was just biased because I was Uruguayan and had picked this guy and was now painting him as a world beater.

The case is simple: he was a key player in a Uruguay side that won two Olympic Games, the World Cup and a couple of Copa Americas (already more than Thuram ever did). He was a revolutionary in that he was the first ever righthalf (or left, for that matter) that didn't just defined but executed the transition to attack displaying a skill and ability beyond that of most forwards. And he just happened to be the first black player to play international footie (imagine what that required, in the 20s and 30s, relative to what Thuram may have had to put up with).

But no, he was some average bloke who is best left forgotten and definitely, definitely worse than Thuram, just because Theon saw Thuram play.

 

[antohan]

Figo was in the team of the tournament which Rijkaard wasn't. I think Figo is a pretty solid pick for WC performances alone. There aren't many top top class wingers.

Yet everyone has gone manic scrambling for fullbacks, go figure.

There actually is a winger I'm stunned hasn't been picked. Gobsmacked.

 

[Moby]

Yet everyone has gone manic scrambling for fullbacks, go figure.

There actually is a winger I'm stunned hasn't been picked. Gobsmacked.

They are all scared of facing Mané.

 

[Theon]

Unfortunately Theon was of the opinion I was just biased because I was Uruguayan and had picked this guy and was now painting him as a world beater.

But no, he was some average bloke who is best left forgotten and definitely, definitely worse than Thuram, just because Theon saw Thuram play.

You're going all crazy again

Highlight these two points - I never said you were bias in a negative way, I just said that the reason you know so much about Andrade is because you are Uruguayan which is just true. You didn't know who Ocwirk was but if you were Austrian do you think you would have known him?

The second part is just insane really, I never said he was an average player and best forgotten about. Have some sense. The whole point was really on how highly I rated Thuram. If you remember, who else did I think should be swapped out of that team? Giacinto Facchetti. Preferring Maldini to Facchetti wasn't a criticism of Facchetti, I've just seen so much more of both Thuram and Maldini so prefer them in an all time side.

It's no big deal. The reason this all came up again was because you just said I had been talking bullshit for no reason.

 

[Annahnomoss]

Every day it ends one before me so I have to stay up.

 

[Desert Eagle]

Sorry Annah. I pick.Leo Messi

 

[Desert Eagle]

Pol 1. Maradona 2. P. Maldini 3. Breitner 4. Zizinho 5. Boniek 6. Ocwirk 7. Zito
Cal 1. Pelé 2. Sándor Kocsis 3. Gérson 4. Blanc 5. Overath 6. Cristiano Ronaldo 7. Lev Yashin
Aldo 1. Garrincha 2. Romário 3. Scirea 4. Gentile 5. Kempes 6. Ballack 7. Lizarazu
Theon 1. Beckenbauer 2. Zico 3. Baggio 4. Kohler 5. R. Carlos 6. Socrates 7. Andrade
Rpitroda 1. Zidane 2. Masopust 3. Varela 4. Desailly 5. Batistuta 6. Nasazzi 7. Figo
Paceme 1. Platini 2. Rijkaard 3. Djalma Santos 4. Thuram 5. Tigana 6. Ademir 7. Cabrini
Jayvin 1. Ronaldo 2. Cannavaro 3. Rivaldo 4. Brehme 5. Vieira 6. Coluna 7. Schiaffino
Desert 1.Moore 2. Meazza 3. Passarella 4. Busquets 5. Makélélé 6. Pirlo 7. Messi
Annah 1. Didi 2. Iniesta 3. Ronaldinho 4. Stoichkov 5. Leonidas 6. Lahm
Crappy/Pippa 1. Fontaine 2. Krol 3. Kopa 4. Vogts 5. Dunga 6. Ruggeri
Fergus 1. Matthäus 2. Falcao 3. Rivelino 4. Nilson Santos 5. Karlheinz Förster 6. Chumpitaz
Balu/NM 1. Cruyff 2. Jairzinho 3. Carlos Alberto 4. Davids 5. Silvio Marzolini 6. Frank de Boer
Anto 1. Puskas 2. Neeskens 3. Bozsik 4. Czibor 5. Ghiggia 6. Junior
Gio. 1. Eusebio 2. Figueroa 3. Laudrup 4. Xavi 5. Keane 6. Da Guia
Cutch 1. Müller 2. Facchetti 3. Cafu 4. Santamaría 5. Cubillas 6. Bergomi
TITO 1. Charlton 2. Baresi 3. Zanetti 4. Schnellinger 5. Tardelli 6. Paolo Rossi

 

[Annahnomoss]

Finally me

 

[Annahnomoss]

Vicente Lucas, part of the team of the tournament in 1966, won every single game he played in that WC and many consider the injury that kept him out of the game against England to be the reason that England won the World Cup that year.

1966 he faced Pele, the best player of all time in his prime. Portugal lined up with a risky 3 man defense with Vicente as a DM against the likes of Pele/Jairzinho. Vicente who was equally superb both as a centre-back and a destroyer defensive midfielder was told his mission for the day was to do the impossible - to man mark Pele out of the game. Portugal dominated the game and won conclusive after Pele had one, if not the most quiet evenings in his international career.

Pele described him as "The only defender to have shut me down without resorting to dirty play" and prior to playing Bobby Moore said he was the best defender he had ever played.

The other players of the '66 world-cup weren't as fond of beating Pele fair and square and resorted to very physical play which in the end of the match had him limping.

 

[antohan]

The other players of the '66 world-cup weren't as fond of beating Pele fair and square and resorted to very physical play which in the end of the match had him limping.

He played just two games and got the shit kicked out of him in both. Morais spent the entire game doing a hatchet job on him.

 

[Annahnomoss]

He played just two games and got the shit kicked out of him in both. Morais spent the entire game doing a hatchet job on him.

It is why I wrote that they resorted to "very physical play". It wasn't solely Morais but the majority of players used brute force in those days - and in that WC in particular.

 

[antohan]

It is why I wrote that they resorted to "very physical play". It wasn't solely Morais but the majority of players used brute force in those days - and in that WC in particular.

My point is you can hardly claim he man-marked Pelé to the point of making him quiet when the rest of his team mates were kicking lumps out of him. He went into the game on one leg already, so if that is his entire case I'd say it is a rather poor one.

Just saying, with him not being a Benfica player I have no recollection of ever seeing him play at all. What I've seen of that game between Brazil and Portugal never indicated to me there was someone on the pitch doing a particularly good/outstanding job on Pelé. All I remember is carnage.

 

[Annahnomoss]

My point is you can hardly claim he man-marked Pelé to the point of making him quiet when the rest of his team mates were kicking lumps out of him. He went into the game on one leg already, so if that is his entire case I'd say it is a rather poor one.

Just saying, with him not being a Benfica player I have no recollection of ever seeing him play at all. What I've seen of that game between Brazil and Portugal never indicated to me there was someone on the pitch doing a particularly good/outstanding job on Pelé. All I remember is carnage.

I think it is impossible to watch that World Cup and not primarily remember the brutality of it? I re-watched the games when I read Pele's quotes on it and it is certainly a very impressive tournament.

Of course Pele was faced with brute force almost every game and handled it so well he is named the best player in the history. Vicente was of course also chosen as the team of the tournament because his performances were more important than those of the brutes.

If the brutality was what won them their games - Vicence would be the least likely defender to be picked. Being up against Pele/Jairzinho with just a 3 man defense behind you is always a nightmare and Pele alone was of course not the only danger of that Brazilian team.

Any player who man-marks another will get help from his teammates. Phil Jones wasn't the only one to cancel out Ronaldo in our leg against Madrid - but still he had him quiet. It doesn't mean he was the only reason that Ronaldo was quiet, he had an entire team helping him as well.

The impressive feat is in someone man-marking Pele efficiently as it was tried in pretty much every game. Pele had no assist or goal that night, which is extremely rare for being Pele no matter how brutal you were.

 

[antohan]

I think it is impossible to watch that World Cup and not primarily remember the brutality of it? I re-watched the games when I read Pele's quotes on it and it is certainly a very impressive tournament.

Of course Pele was faced with brute force almost every game and handled it so well he is named the best player in the history. Vicente was of course also chosen as the team of the tournament because his performances were more important than those of the brutes.

If the brutality was what won them their games - Vicence would be the least likely defender to be picked. Being up against Pele/Jairzinho with just a 3 man defense behind you is always a nightmare and Pele alone was of course not the only danger of that Brazilian team.

Any player who man-marks another will get help from his teammates. Phil Jones wasn't the only one to cancel out Ronaldo in our leg against Madrid - but still he had him quiet. It doesn't mean he was the only reason that Ronaldo was quiet, he had an entire team helping him as well.

The impressive feat is in someone man-marking Pele efficiently as it was tried in pretty much every game.

Agree, absolutely, it's not exactly my favourite WC. Refereeing was a joke as well. I'm not particularly impressed with the Pelé-link though as he clearly wasn't fit (and Pelé has called a load of people all sorts of great things, yet hasn't included him in his 100, not that it is a guide to anything!). The Jones example is different because you didn't have an unfit Ronaldo, let alone one hacked constantly with no repercussions.

Point is, I'm not about to go watch all of Portugal's games to focus on the performance from someone else's pick! Help me out here with some further details/description. What sort of defender was he? Strengths, weaknesses, traits, etc.

You say he was also a midfield destroyer, which doesn't sound very compatible with him being the only Portuguese chap not kicking Pelé around. What do you mean by 3-man defence behind you? Was he playing in midfield in that game?

 

[Annahnomoss]

Agree, absolutely, it's not exactly my favourite WC. Refereeing was a joke as well. I'm not particularly impressed with the Pelé-link though as he clearly wasn't fit (and Pelé has called a load of people all sorts of great things, yet hasn't included him in his 100, not that it is a guide to anything!). The Jones example is different because you didn't have an unfit Ronaldo, let alone one hacked constantly with no repercussions.

Point is, I'm not about to go watch all of Portugal's games to focus on the performance from someone else's pick! Help me out here with some further details/description. What sort of defender was he? Strengths, weaknesses, traits, etc.

You say he was also a midfield destroyer, which doesn't sound very compatible with him being the only Portuguese chap not kicking Pelé around. What do you mean by 3-man defence behind you? Was he playing in midfield in that game?

I actually quite like that WC because of the physicality of it. Of course, it is the least funny one to watch for beautiful football and watching all the tournament in a marathon is dreadful.

I will try to describe him but keep in mind that it always sounds a bit like bigging a player up to name their strengths. He is remembered for his performance against Pele and being the second best central defender of that WC.

His greatest asset was his tactical intelligence which allowed him to intercept passes at the right moments but also knew when to drop back and cancel out a run behind the defense. Like any defender who also played as a midfielder he had very good technique but his defining abilities was in the defense.

Portugal played that match with a 3 man defense with Vicente just in front in the hole as a defensive midfielder.

I think the most similar modern player I can think of is Lahm when he plays as a DM for Bayern. For a midfielder, certainly not world-class passing - but solid enough for short passing to more creative players and keep tempo up. But really shines defensively by using his vision/interceptions/tackles/pace/stamina to shut down the opponents offense.

 

[Cal?]

Figo is by no means a bad as Ronaldo but still should not be viewed as the Figo we know from club level.

You can name plenty of other players who've made team of the tournament yet not been pick because their names not gonna win votes from casual voters.

Ronaldo was going to win the young player of the tournament in 06 if it wasn't for the furore over the wink incident with the English press.

 

[Annahnomoss]

Ronaldo was going to win the young player of the tournament in 06 if it wasn't for the furore over the wink incident with the Englumish press.

Ronaldo also won 3 consecutive man of the match awards.

 

[antohan]

I actually quite like that WC because of the physicality of it. Of course, it is the least funny one to watch for beautiful football and watching all the tournament in a marathon is dreadful.

I will try to describe him but keep in mind that it always sounds a bit like bigging a player up to name their strengths. He is remembered for his performance against Pele and being the second best central defender of that WC.

His greatest asset was his tactical intelligence which allowed him to intercept passes at the right moments but also knew when to drop back and cancel out a run behind the defense. Like any defender who also played as a midfielder he had very good technique but his defining abilities was in the defense.

Portugal played that match with a 3 man defense with Vicente just in front in the hole as a defensive midfielder.

I think the most similar modern player I can think of is Lahm when he plays as a DM for Bayern. For a midfielder, certainly not world-class passing - but solid enough for short passing to more creative players and keep tempo up. But really shines defensively by using his vision/interceptions/tackles/pace/stamina to shut down the opponents offense.

Thanks. Sounds more like a Makelele to me TBH.