Geopolitics

Dewey Clarridge was a bit of a nut. I liken him to being a sort of Erik Prince of the espionage world, given his private intelligence activities after he left the CIA. Not that it changes that the US did actively help Pinochet oust Allende, and then supported Pinochet's government, but just that Clarridge's attitude about it is erm... not the norm.
I thought someone would say that. The only insane thing about his interview there is that he tells you the truth without the usual political filter. I believe it is the norm with one exception: it isn't normally spoken about so honestly.

Nobel Peace Prize Winner Henry Kissinger+Obama said:
In transmitting President Richard Nixon's orders for a "massive" bombing of Cambodia in 1969, Henry Kissinger said, "Anything that flies on everything that moves". As Barack Obama ignites his seventh war against the Muslim world since he was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize, the orchestrated hysteria and lies make one almost nostalgic for Kissinger's murderous honesty. ...

The Americans dropped the equivalent of five Hiroshimas on rural Cambodia during 1969-73. They levelled village after village, returning to bomb the rubble and corpses. The craters left monstrous necklaces of carnage, still visible from the air. The terror was unimaginable. A former Khmer Rouge official described how the survivors "froze up and they would wander around mute for three or four days. Terrified and half-crazy, the people were ready to believe what they were told... That was what made it so easy for the Khmer Rouge to win the people over."

http://johnpilger.com/articles/from-pol-pot-to-isis-anything-that-flies-on-everything-that-moves
 
I thought someone would say that. The only insane thing about his interview there is that he tells you the truth without the usual political filter. I believe it is the norm with one exception: it isn't normally spoken about so honestly.
You will hear no defense from me about the US involvement in SE Asia, nor of their involvement in supporting military dictatorships in Latin America. But, as I said, Dewey Clarridge is not the most normal type of government official.
 
There's a difference between an air-strike that hits a military target but also unintentionally kills some civilians, and the deliberate shooting/execution of civilians.



You're grossly under estimating the crimes conducting by countries in previous wars. Some also actively support and supply countries that are knowingly conducting war crimes in other countries or murdering people in their own.

There should also be consequences when countries to out and hastly order to kill based on flimsy information, latest incident being the US drone that killed a group of kids but what was initially said to be a car of ISIS militants.

There is also clear evidence of torture in Iraq, which is a war crime, that is actually still defended by some people in the US.
 


You're grossly under estimating the crimes conducting by countries in previous wars. Some also actively support and supply countries that are knowingly conducting war crimes in other countries or murdering people in their own.

There should also be consequences when countries to out and hastly order to kill based on flimsy information, latest incident being the US drone that killed a group of kids but what was initially said to be a car of ISIS militants.

There is also clear evidence of torture in Iraq, which is a war crime, that is actually still defended by some people in the US.

Has anyone on here defended My Lai?
 
Has anyone on here defended My Lai?

That wasn't the point though, the post I quoted was responding to someone saying he/she hopes that western countries hold themselves accountable when they bomb other countries the same way they are doing now to Russia.

While My Lai isn't defended, you might still find people who defend US invading Vietnam.
 
That wasn't the point though, the post I quoted was responding to someone saying he/she hopes that western countries hold themselves accountable when they bomb other countries the same way they are doing now to Russia.

While My Lai isn't defended, you might still find people who defend US invading Vietnam.
Cool… but you posting My Lai in response is kinda weird then.
 
Cool… but you posting My Lai in response is kinda weird then.

Why? The poster was saying as if other countries don't do war crimes, or haven't engaged in illegal wars; specifically talking about shooting/executing civilians.
 
It's literally already happened in Russia with Stalin. The change has to come from within and it has to be correctly incentivised and supported from without.

No, it literally didn't. What history books are you reading ffs?

Stalin was not toppled or deposed internally or through a western intervention. Nor did his death lead to a change of regime. He had a haemorrhagic stroke as a result of long standing atherosclerosis and died within four days of it. He was replaced temporarily by Malenkov and eventually by his right hand man, Khrushchev. Khrushchev was a man who supported Joseph Stalin's purges during the latter's reign and approved thousands of arrests. The same one-party rule and the same regime survived until the fall of the USSR under Gorbatchev.
 
No, it literally didn't. What history books are you reading ffs?

Stalin was not toppled or deposed internally or through a western intervention. Nor did his death lead to a change of regime. He had a haemorrhagic stroke as a result of long standing atherosclerosis and died within four days of it. He was replaced temporarily by Malenkov and eventually by his right hand man, Khrushchev. Khrushchev was a man who supported Joseph Stalin's purges during the latter's reign and approved thousands of arrests. The same one-party rule and the same regime survived until the fall of the USSR under Gorbatchev.

Khrushchev's memoir says that Beria did it. Who knows if that's true but it's certainly true that Stalin wasn't treated promptly and correctly, whether because they didn't want him to recover or because they were too scared to make mistakes and incur his wrath. Either way, Khrushchev then goes on to denounce and "de-Stalinise" Russia. That's the sort of outcome you'd be hoping for. And yes it will take years, decades or maybe never to succeed in transforming Russia but it has to be tried. We fecked it up first time round, we need to try not to do the same again.
 
I'm not used to being in a position of wanting the US to be more belligerent, but in this instance even if they had no intention of fighting directly, I do believe that shutting up and letting the threat hang in the air could have had at least a chilling effect on Russian planning.
It has been interesting to see this exact sentiment as many times as I've seen it from folks all around the world.
 
Khrushchev's memoir says that Beria did it. Who knows if that's true but it's certainly true that Stalin wasn't treated promptly and correctly, whether because they didn't want him to recover or because they were too scared to make mistakes and incur his wrath.

No he doesn't. He blames Beria for inaction, the very opposite of "did it". Khrushchev was the one who called Beria after Stalin was found unconscious, a full 19hrs after last seen going to bed. Beria was not even at the Dacha at the time, he couldn't have "done" anything. Khrushchev is as guilty of inaction with regards to not immediately notifying doctors and requesting medical attention, as Beria. But Khrushchev won the power struggle against Beria and the latter was put to death as a result, so of course he blames it on Beria and we only hear that narrative. Both were obviously afraid to act independently without orders.

But regardless, Stalin's death was a naturally caused stroke, not a murder or toppling which is what you've been talking about. No one would dare make a move against Stalin while he still had his faculties.

That's the sort of outcome you'd be hoping for. And yes it will take years, decades or maybe never to succeed in transforming Russia but it has to be tried. We fecked it up first time round, we need to try not to do the same again.

You've gone from privately offering someone in position of power a deal to topple Putin, to waiting for years for old age to do the trick and then hoping another less autocratic leader takes over and gradually transforms the country.

Your arguments are all over the place. I'm tired.
 
No he doesn't. He blames Beria for inaction, the very opposite of "did it". Khrushchev was the one who called Beria after Stalin was found unconscious, a full 19hrs after last seen going to bed. Beria was not even at the Dacha at the time, he couldn't have "done" anything. Khrushchev is as guilty of inaction with regards to not immediately notifying doctors and requesting medical attention, as Beria. But Khrushchev won the power struggle against Beria and the latter was put to death as a result, so of course he blames it on Beria and we only hear that narrative. Both were obviously afraid to act independently without orders.

But regardless, Stalin's death was a naturally caused stroke, not a murder or toppling which is what you've been talking about. No one would dare make a move against Stalin while he still had his faculties.



You've gone from privately offering someone in position of power a deal to topple Putin, to waiting for years for old age to do the trick and then hoping another less autocratic leader takes over and gradually transforms the country.

Your arguments are all over the place. I'm tired.

Yeah I think you need your beauty sleep tbf.
 
Surely Ukraine militarizing would be done with funding from EU countries, this might change their calculus. Being an EU country would likely make giving assistance easier.

No. The EU would never subvention an Israel-like system. We are not accepting Orban's slow march into that authoritarian system of his. Actually, EU has been increasingly trying to pressure Israel into less apartheid. The European Court of Justice vigorously defended the right of BDS to promote a boycott of Israel.

The US is the superpower defending Apartheid in Israel and questions on that have already started to be asked. The US will not support Ukraine in emulating that.

Ali Velshi didn't get canceled and labeled antisemite after this (he would have a few years ago..). There will be many more speaking out against Ukraine if it were to start moving toward that kind of system. I hope Zelenskyy knows that and is keeping it in mind. I'm convinced it is not his intention, but once you've opened the door to the "Military/Police state" you can't know where it actually leads.

 
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And, this means it is almost certain that Sweden will also join NATO in the coming months.

Hopefully, the Danes don't f**k up their EU-defense referendum in June. The first referendum a country holds on EU matters since Brexit.
 
The social democrats in sweden will receive a backlash if they say yes to NATO. Even during this fear surge, support among the population is quite weak. Fortunately looks like a 75% parliament majority will be needed to join NATO.
 
Hilary Clinton (lovely person...) has accused Saudi Arabia of siding with Russia because they haven't (SA)increased oil production. Interesting. Perhaps they'll increase olive oil production instead.
 
The social democrats in sweden will receive a backlash if they say yes to NATO. Even during this fear surge, support among the population is quite weak. Fortunately looks like a 75% parliament majority will be needed to join NATO.

I don't think the social democrats can afford to have NATO membership as one of the Election's big issues. They have nothing to gain from that. Their own base is very divided on it (27 v 31). Only the Greens and the Left have a clear majority against it. Currently, the most important party for S not to anger is C, and as long as C is pro-NATO I can't see the upside for S in holding against it.

This is TV4, 2 weeks ago breaking it out by party-voters.

convert



And more recently this, also ordered by TV4.

https://omni.se/ny-undersokning-svenskarna-allt-mer-natovanliga/a/1O8ooq

35 % support joining vs only 31 % against.
 
The social democrats in sweden will receive a backlash if they say yes to NATO. Even during this fear surge, support among the population is quite weak. Fortunately looks like a 75% parliament majority will be needed to join NATO.
Really hope Sweden follows Finland in joining Nato, will make our Baltic region so much more safer all things considered. Since you don’t want to fully depend on the US given that there’s now always a possibility of another Trump around the corner as Putin’s bot and troll armies will only intensify going forwards. It was really important for Finland to be part of the block, very happy with this news.
 
Why are so many Swedes against joining NATO?

The opposition isn't high. It's only 31 % currently (and a third of them would say yes if Finland was joining). But it used to be around 50 %.. The truth is People aren't educated well enough on defense issues.

Then again I don't think it is a Swedish thing. Finland used to be more opposed to it than us. People don't like big changes generally.

Actually, Ireland and especially Austria have stronger "fake neutrality" no-NATO traditions than us.

But to give you some context. You can go back to this discussion we had earlier on the matter.

I think it is a complicated debate. In 2014 I remember people saying we are protected by our EU membership and that is probably enough (even though without NATO, the EU armies willing to help wouldn't have the guarantee that they could get here through Norway soil). People would also bring up our obligations towards Erdogan's regime if we were to join NATO. Nobody is talking about that now.

In contrast, now we have to remember that the EU is militarily weaker than it was in 2014, especially since the Brexit, and given that the big countries (Italy, Germany and Spain) haven't invested much in their militaries lately I'd guess Putin's regime doesn't see EU alone as a deterrent.

I personally think there is no going back. Finland is about to decide, and if they join we will have no choice but to follow through. Last week 46 % in Sweden supported joinging NATO, and it increases to 54 % if Finland is joining.
 
Swedish people have had a problem with US foreign policy long before Trump. The school debates were often quite heated when someone started to troll the more left oriented. I used to be right wing nato supporter when I was younger but that was a long time ago.
 
Swedish people have had a problem with US foreign policy long before Trump. The school debates were often quite heated when someone started to troll the more left oriented. I used to be right wing nato supporter when I was younger but that was a long time ago.

That's a misconception though. I do have issues with many US foreign policies, but I'd rather see us join NATO. We have to distinguish the 2. NATO is not a tool of US foreign policy. NATO is a strictly defensive alliance. And having the US in it is what makes it a real deterrent.

Germany and France (2 of NATO's biggest countries) opposed the American invasion of Iraq and NATO stayed out of it.
 
Even if we belived NATO was purely defensive, how can we think it's disconnected from US foreign policy when they are waving their dick around the entire planet? In the 60's they supported mass killings of perhaps millions in indonesia only on suspicion someone might be a "leftie". I would probably have been slaughtered for being a union activist. So yeah I think sweden should rather mediate between military blocs than be part of one.
 
Even if we belived NATO was purely defensive, how can we think it's disconnected from US foreign policy when they are waving their dick around the entire planet? In the 60's they supported mass killings of perhaps millions in indonesia only on suspicion someone might be a "leftie". I would probably have been slaughtered for being a union activist.

We need look no further than the Russia/Ukraine crisis to see whether it is defensive. We have a tangible, real life example transpiring before our eyes in the present that demonstrates why NATO not only should have existed post Cold War, but that it should have expanded aggressively to balance against an authoritarian lunatic with nukes threatening Europe.
 
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It’s easy for people to fall for the imperialistic crap at the moment as they don’t lose anything personally — at least they haven’t yet realized just how fecked they are by the consequences of the invasion & sanctions. It’s a propaganda bubble that can be burst and most likely will in the future.

The support for the war is real but it’s not based on reality and the more the latter creeps in (and I’m not only talking about economics, I’m talking about the military disaster that it turned out to be), the less popular that support will end up being.

I know that I’m clutching at straws here and Putin’s regime has enough raw power to suppress any opposition for years, but he’s really fecked in historical perspective.

That's the ultimate question. Does he have that kind of power?

History tells us that dictators usually have a shelf life and when it all starts to fall apart, it does so quickly. He's surrounded himself with "yes men" but these are not political hardliners tied to an ideology - they're thieves and chancers who (along with their wives, mistresses and children) want to live a western lifestyle and spend their billions.

He's a near 70 year old man, possibly ill and he isn't the future. Are they going to sit by while he burns Russia's economy to the ground? Possible, but I suspect there's numerous people around him (known and perhaps, more who are unknown) who would put a bullet in him if push comes to shove.

Russia is a big country. Their military is demonstrably much weaker than the world thought and there are separatist groups all over the Country - possible soon to be covertly backed by the wet, who could cause a lot of trouble at home. By surrounding himself by the people he has he's done a great job of gaslighting himself into thinking he's invincible.

Big issue will be whether sanctions are rolled back when this is over, or whether Europe can wean itself off Russian oil and gas but even that won't save the economy.
 
That's a misconception though. I do have issues with many US foreign policies, but I'd rather see us join NATO. We have to distinguish the 2. NATO is not a tool of US foreign policy. NATO is a strictly defensive alliance. And having the US in it is what makes it a real deterrent.

Germany and France (2 of NATO's biggest countries) opposed the American invasion of Iraq and NATO stayed out of it.

Two very debatable points, all things considered. But probably also best left for the geopolitics thread.
 
At the end of the day it's a conflict between freedom and democracy vs tyranny and oppression. This struggle is global.
Simply isn't true. We're on the side of freedom and democracy in Yemen, are we? Thought so.
 
Simply isn't true. We're on the side of freedom and democracy in Yemen, are we? Thought so.

Personally, I am 100% with freedom and democracy everywhere, but I don't think that any of the two sides in Yemen represent "freedom and democracy".