Has political correctness actually gone mad?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Perhaps but if he's openly and actively wishing for people to be able to say anything they want in regards to free speech, which is largely his persona, then it's only fair enough that people are going to sling mud at him as well.
Fair point, especially in the US, where libel laws are not as strong as in the UK.
Freedom of speech is about your freedom to say what you think without the tyranny of either the government or other people silencing you.
If you don't like someone then don't listen to them and their words won't hurt you.
However, if you defame a person then you hurt them even if they cannot hear you say it... there is a quite clear difference that if you think about it objectively should be pretty obvious
Once again the fascist left kick up a storm and only end up making him more mainstream and more wealthy.
Keep trying. Someone might care eventually.
Don't need to try though do I.
If it looks like a duck, thinks like a duck, quacks like a duck etc. I can't be the only one to appreciate the irony.
But how do we determine what comes under freedom of speech and what is defamation, though? Because any decision on which is which is ultimately going to be, to an extent, an opinion. I completely agree that defamation should result in punishment, of course, but Milo's general shtick is the opposite of this...any criticism of offence he causes or anything he says about someone else is brushed off as him exercising his free speech.
If he gets to demand an apology because someone hurt his feelings and called him a white nationalist, do left-wing people get to demand an apology for being called 'precious snowflakes' or people trying to prevent freedom of speech? Where's the line? And wherever that line is, why's it fine for Milo to cross it...but not for people on the other side?
It obviously has nothing to do with his feelings, I'm sure he couldn't care less what some Guardian or CNN journo thinks of him.
The issue is explaining away the violence at Berkeley as justified along the same lines as "it's okay to punch a Nazi". It might be okay to punch a Nazi, but half the MSM conflate punching Nazis with beating college students with metal bars just for attending a college talk by a conservative.
The issue is explaining away the violence at Berkeley as justified along the same lines as "it's okay to punch a Nazi". It might be okay to punch a Nazi, but half the MSM conflate punching Nazis with beating college students with metal bars just for attending a college talk by a conservative.
To state that someone is a white nationalist is to say that they hold particular views which are defined and would discredit them in the eyes of the majority and would harm their reputation so may lead to consequences for the victim beyond hurt feelings.
To say nasty comments about a person or a group of people may hurt their feelings but are unlikely to lead to wider consequences.
If you haven't already, I recommend reading 'On Liberty' by John Stuart Mill. It's pretty much the free-speech bible and explores the harm principle.
@Cheesy
Actually that said, I've just remembered that he did defame Leslie Jones by retweeting fake tweets, and I don't think he ever apologised, so your central point of him being a hypocrite is correct.
Actually that said, I've just remembered that he did defame Leslie Jones by retweeting fake tweets, and I don't think he ever apologised, so your central point of him being a hypocrite is correct.
Aye, as I've said I have no problem with defamation laws and for the most part agree with them fully. But if Milo's general shtick is defending absolutely everything he says as being in the name of free speech, then people calling him all sorts of shite should absolutely be allowed to do the same if we're looking at it from his flawed viewpoint.
Private institutions cancelling prior engagements has little to do with free speech. At least constitutionally. Free speech, as an enshrined ideal, is about the individual's ability to air their views without the threat of criminal prosecution. Dickhead anarchists forcing Berkley to cancel Milo's talk may be undeniably idiotic (not to mention counter productive) but is still the choice of Berkley, and not the state. Milo is still free to air his awful views on any number of public platforms, without threat of arrest or genuine, all compassing censorship. It's technically no different to a pop concert being cancelled. Sadly, the media reaction to it is precisely what the likes of him thrives off, and probably the very reason he scheduled a talk at such a prominently liberal institution in the first place.
cnut.
cnut.
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yes and no. the difference is that Berkeley receives a lot of government funding (imo about 50%), which makes the whole thing a bit more complicated. Anyway. the only reason that an imbecile like Milo can exist is, because people react to him. Why do people bother? I mean, how on earth can someone like him wind up anyone on twitter or any other social media platform? Just ignore or block him. Protesting against someone whose only goal in life is to gain attention is rather mindless as well.
Clearly the person who used the pepper spray it's a massive arsehole but just in terms of personal safety why the feck is she wearing a Trump hat ? You get the feeling with a lot of Trump supporters and people like Milo that they see this as one big joke, a sort of stick prodding exercise.
The reality is the complete opposite.
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Her clothing was asking for it alright
Just winding people up on Twitter is not all Milo does though. He actively galvanises a hateful section of society to harass other people.
What the heck? It's a college campus, why can't you wear clothing to show your political allegiance? The event was organized by the Cal College Republicans so you think some of them might support Trump and want to show it.
The hat also says Make Bitcoins Great Again.
To be honest, that post is a bit of a joke mate. She shouldn't be allowed to express her political views? The hat doesn't even mention Trump but even if it did, she has every right to support him.
I'm trying to decipher your point because it seems like this post was a bit of a troll or stick prodding exercise. Do you think that she shouldn't be allowed to express her political viewpoint? Presumably you will say she should be able to but it was stupid to do it there... so I guess you are agreeing that these rioters are thugs who want to shut down and attack anyone with alternative views?
I don't care much for Milo, and don't care at all for Trump, but that whole Berkely debacle was just a spectacular failure. Trump needs to be restrained and fought with tooth and nail, but this is not the way to go about it. Physically attacking someone because they wear a fecking Trump cap is disgraceful and so is rioting because someone on the other side of the fence is having a speech
Yes, Milo is a professional WUM, it's what he does for a living, but these complete idiots are playing right into his hand and at the same time weakening their own stance. If these progressives think having a shit fit is the appropriate response to fighting Trump then they are fecking morons and will probably only make sure he gets reelected
Sounds more like what the likes of the mainstream media, academia and social justice crusaders are doing when they encourage hateful leftists to meet opinions with violence.
Exactly this. If they stopped reacting to him, the entertainment value of his act would be almost entirely diminished and he would go back to irrelevance.
His act is based on him saying 'prohibited' things and people finding it amusing, particularly when it gets SJW jimmies all a-rustled.
Let him say what he's going to say, don't attend and don't react and the magic will wear off quickly- when it becomes a debate about perspective and ideas the good ideas will eventually win out, the bad ones will die off and the world will keep turning.
Making it into a fist fight just hurts everyone, and leads to escalation. It didn't take long for the violence to turn from being aimed at 'Nazis' to people in red hats- who is next?
That was my point.
Its gone mad
If you'd included coastal elites and ***** you'd have had an alt-right full house.
This, and what happened with debate around Uni campuses anyways? These days it seems it's only speeches and lectures where one (often very biased) person or group present their views to the crowd, what happened with good old debate and discourse?
I'm pretty sure if they had debates instead of this nonsense, keyboard warriors and WUM's like Milo would quickly fade away, as i am pretty sure he would be properly schooled by someone with more knowledge and gravitas. If the left in the US wants to get back in the game, they need to do it the proper way, not throw childish tamper tantrums
Statement by the Uni -
Oh yeah, I bet they genuinely were hardened social justice warriors and absolutely not hired goons.
Heh. What a soft sack of shit. As @daftlimmy said on twitter. The alt-right are full of alpha male chat until they get a smack on the jaw.
Oh yeah, I bet they genuinely were hardened social justice warriors and absolutely not hired goons.
what leads you to believe they were anything other than lefties who wanted the event cancelled?
Oh yeah, I bet they genuinely were hardened social justice warriors and absolutely not hired goons.
They're anarchists. Turning up at flash-points between right and left to stir some shit and crack some heads is their raison d'etre.
Fair enough if that is the case- I thought they were Marxists
I'm presuming tbf but the people who ran amok at the inauguration were definitely anarchists and this lot do seem to be cut from the same cloth.
yeah actually, one of the videos in the link above they were chanting about 'no nations' so they would have to be some pretty confused Marxists to want that!