I doubt this sort of argument would fly with the public. You have to take the emotional and moral issues out of the equation and answer the basic questions in a way that assuages the concerns of all parties involved.
Healthcare
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
I doubt this sort of argument would fly with the public. You have to take the emotional and moral issues out of the equation and answer the basic questions in a way that assuages the concerns of all parties involved.
The companies that benefited all these years will have to pay for it.
they will be Made to pay for it.same with clawbacks of tax cuts.
It is therefore important to gain power. as history has taught us.
with power you can do anything.
If we really want to get cold and practical then put it this way: we have to balance the opportunity cost of ~50,000 preventable deaths and ~530,000 preventable bankruptcies against an unknown but far smaller number of clerical and administrative jobs.
Any practical reality the choice is pretty simple to most people except apparently the entitled ones like our Danny the Einstein of Private Care. The things to consider:
Nurses, doctors and medical specialists obviously won't lose their jobs. Not even every clerical admin will lose their jobs so the job loss is much lower than the fear mongering.
This isn't like flipping a switch. There is going to be transitional phases so its not going to happen all at once (unlike after the Great Recession)
Then:
- Unemployment benefits
- Free state education
- Green new deal jobs
- UBI
- Feck off. You aren't entitled Health Care Admin job at Kaiser at the cost of thousands of preventable deaths hundreds of thousands of preventable bankruptcies. Go apply for work at Trump golf courses if you don't want to work for the Evil Guvment.
Doing "anything" does not necessarily mean that the situation at the end will be better than what you have started with.
And expecting "the companies that benefited" to pay for anything is probably (red) dreams. Companies can just file for bankruptcy and you get a huge mess with millions of people losing benefits and savings (yes, there are millions of investors who are just everyday people with 401 savings etc... not millionaires).
If Government is taking over the health care system then they guarantee things like 401 savings and ensure no one loses anything they paid in. Not really that big a deal to be honest.
Also it can't threaten to collapse the economy, that's the fear mongering. There isn't even remotely close to risk to the whole economy if private health care companies were to be winded down and Pharma profiteering reigned in. There is no risk spread throughout the entire economy with health care as there was with MBS derivatives in 2006-08.
And all of this fails to realize that after 3-5 years the economy will adjust and be far more efficient and companies won't be anchored down with illogical health benefits they have to provide. Entrepreneurship and innovation would actually grow as a lot of income is going to be freed up insane of being sucked into unnecessary privatized pay structures.
Oh and all privatized health care won't be eliminated IMO. The billionaires will ensure they get their special access luxury health care.
That's a good point. How will millions react when they see their 401ks tank as a result of the healthcare stocks/sector collapsing, which would have a ripple effect on the entire market just as when the a drop in WTI tanks the energy sector, which in turn pulls the market down.
People vote on emotion, not logic.
Positively, they vote for the vision of Hope. The possibilities.Or they vote as Trump supporters did...scapegoating others.
those who want/need Health Care will vote for a Universal health Care system whatever it may be called.
There are far more of those who need health care..Now.
Positively, they vote for the vision of Hope. The possibilities.Or they vote as Trump supporters did...scapegoating others.
those who want/need Health Care will vote for a Universal health Care system whatever it may be called.
There are far more of those who need health care..Now.
Its not though. Read my post, that's neither a logical worry nor that powerful emotionally when compared to fear of bankruptcy or dying because of medical complications.
I was asked this.
Heck. There are other investments that will take their place.
Nobody has all their eggs in Health Care industries. There will be a transition by Funds managers. This is not like a switch being turned on.
there will be minimal effect if any on the whole economy.
My daughter who is a doctor has to jump through hoops to give her patients the care they need because of health Insurance companies.
I have heard this from other doctors and nurses.
Hopefully in the future these professionals can actually be allowed to do their jobs.
I have heard this from other doctors and nurses.
Hopefully in the future these professionals can actually be allowed to do their jobs.
none of the objections that vampire has mentioned are worth anything. the minimum requirement for objection to medicare for all is that it has to matter more than 50,000 lives and 500,000 bankruptcies
https://www.investopedia.com/articles/active-trading/111314/top-10-insurance-companies-metrics.asp
a quick google says the market cap of the top 10 insurance companies is $224 billion. lets round that up to $300 billion to cover the remaining smaller companies. thats nothing relative to the numbers we are talking about. we could give every single person invested in these companies their money back and it would be nothing.
these are not good faith objections and anyone who promotes them doesnt actually support medicare for all or hasnt done even a tiny bit of research.
a quick google says the market cap of the top 10 insurance companies is $224 billion. lets round that up to $300 billion to cover the remaining smaller companies. thats nothing relative to the numbers we are talking about. we could give every single person invested in these companies their money back and it would be nothing.
these are not good faith objections and anyone who promotes them doesnt actually support medicare for all or hasnt done even a tiny bit of research.
The market cap of the Health care GIC is closer to 5.5 trillion. That includes biotech, pharma, technology, equipment, tools & services etc. Its the third largest sector in the entire economy behind IT and Financials.
Those things can still exist under Medicare for all. They provide extra value. Insurance companies are just leaches.
The problem is that if some idealists just try to change the whole thing without really knowing anything about the details, we may get something even worse. The posts here give me zero confidence that people understand the complexity of the matter. I have not found any coherent plan from anyone, just wishful thinking. It is great spouting meaningless slogans like "yes, we can", "people first", "the audacity of hope" and so on, but in real life things are not simple. I hope that the democratic party will just kick out the leftist extremists, they are usually as damaging as the trump morons.
And who do you think are the investors in these companies? Perhaps the same "leaches"[sic]?
Which posts are you reading that give you zero confidence, your own? Because all youve done is ask questions that could be easily answered in 3 minutes of googling. Nevertheless people have googled it for you and posted it here and you still havent done anything other than throw out bs objections.
Heres the thing, we dont need to figure this out from scratch. This isnt an untested theory. Dozens of other countries have this already. All that happens by delaying this is ruin million of lives. If you think Medicare for all is a leftist extremist position you are out of touch with the rest of the country and you dont belong in the party. You ought to join the Republicans where you belong.
This is what I mean about not even reading and wasting everyone's time. Just a few minutes ago I said we could give every single investor their money back and it would be a drop in the bucket.
Its not "idealism" Its cold hard pragmatism. The US cannot afford to keep spending far more than other countries to get worse outcomes have tens of thousands die and have hundreds of thousands go bankrupt.
To be blunt, your posts give me zero confidence you understand the matter at all considering you haven't even responded to any of my posts. Wishful thinking is thinking that the US can afford to maintain the status quo for another 20 years without serious plutocratic disaster.
Thinking that this system is a good idea is the actual idealism:
Right. Okay. I don't think that the real world works like this. I also have no idea who is the "you" that will "give back" billions to investors. Good luck with that. I have no money to pay to no investors myself!
your posts demonstrate that you may potentially have an embarrassing lack of knowledge on this subject and and your posts refusal to address the points made by berbatrick and onenil are embarrassing, as posts go. if i had made such embarrassing posts i would consider myself an embarrassment, which is not to say that i think you are embarrassing just that your posts are.
The very concept of people being against free healthcare just blows my mind. I don't really want to live in a world where the well-being of our fellow man is seen as a negative thing.
Even if people manage to pay the premiums and co pays, the Deductibles can load you up with debts.
And where do you think all this money is going?
Straight to the pockets of health Insurance Companies, who in turn finance politicians, both on the Republican and Democratic sides.
And we are supposed to vote for the Democrats cause they are 'not so bad'.
And where do you think all this money is going?
Straight to the pockets of health Insurance Companies, who in turn finance politicians, both on the Republican and Democratic sides.
And we are supposed to vote for the Democrats cause they are 'not so bad'.
Health care will be the deciding issue in this cycle, followed closely by Climate change.
Only two candidates have the stressed that.
Biden is not one of them.
Only two candidates have the stressed that.
Biden is not one of them.
Greatest country in the world.
Anyone who doesnt support Medicare for All is complicit. The human suffering is staggering.
Those stories.. the mind boggles
I hate the US... and so should Americans.
Those stories are disgusting and any Yank comfy with that can go feck themselves.
Unless there are enough voters supporting it, few of the candidates will support free healtcare, even though it would be cheaper on average for state/average american --> less money to certain medicalrelated industries.
General problem in USA is that some of the private industries that should be fixed or regulated (Prisons, drugproducers, weapons, oil) have to much reach and power for a candidate to fight against. And since a number of the politicans are being endorsed by these industries they will not fight pr vote against them, even if this is for the best of the nation.
Democrats: We will only do something if polls shows that a majority of the voters want it. Same with the GOP, but they are even more incluenced by big companies.
So the lifequality of the average american will spiral downwards. And then boom!! serious climate changes hits you. Good luck.
https://www.healthcare-now.org/blog...d-cover-everyone-save-billions-in-first-year/
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...-save-america-trillions-whats-holding-us-back
The National Debt is 22 Trillion. Yet the lie being propagated is that Single payer will cost 32 Trillion.
And this by 'progressive' Nancy Pelosi.
You have to wonder how she and other Democrats sleep at night.
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...-save-america-trillions-whats-holding-us-back
The National Debt is 22 Trillion. Yet the lie being propagated is that Single payer will cost 32 Trillion.
And this by 'progressive' Nancy Pelosi.
You have to wonder how she and other Democrats sleep at night.
Have we got any US-based health workers on the Caf?
I am a physician.
I personally see a single payer health care system as inevitable as this level of expenditure cannot be sustained.
There was an excellent article in TIME magazine about 6 yrs ago on how the whole billing system came about with the inflated bills due to insurances only paying half or less. No hospital for that article showed their chargesheet which is their list of fees for different services/products etc.
Got more of these? One poll with a 1500 sample population(could be skewed, but if done randomly then 1500 should give a relatively low margin for error) beginning, if they do not f*ck Saunders this year as well.
Who among the democratic candidates are openly supporting this? And who among the republicans are not openly against it?