How good was Paul Scholes?
- Thread starter Paxi
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Saw this in some United fan chat big group. Haven't verified its accuracy, but mostly correct I assume.
Thought I should share.
"On this day in 1994, Paul Scholes made his debut for Mancester United.
718 apps
155 goals
11 Premier Leagues
2 Champions Leagues
3 FA Cups
2 League Cups
L E G E N D"
718 apps
155 goals
11 Premier Leagues
2 Champions Leagues
3 FA Cups
2 League Cups
L E G E N D"
Thought I should share.
Medals and trophies don’t make someone world class, just open your eyes and watch him play! His touch, close control, passing, tempo, awareness, positioning, shooting, heading. Use your eyes!
@Stacks having a mare in this thread
Some will have you believe he was the second coming of Cruyff, and yet, despite his longevity, he was never even Man Uniteds player of the year. In fact, his personal honours suggests, that he was pretty far behind Gerrard and Lampard.
FIFA World XI Nominations
Gerrard 8
Lampard 8
Scholes 2
FIFA World Player of the Year
Lampard 2nd
FIFA World XI
Gerrard 3
Lampard 1
Scholes 0
UEFA Team of the Year
Gerrard 3
Lampard 0
Scholes 0
UEFA Player of the year
Gerrard 1
Lampard 0
Scholes 0
Highest Ballon D’or Finish
Lampard 2nd
Gerrard 3rd
PFA Team of the Year
Gerrard 8
Lampard 5
Scholes 2
PFA Player of the Year
Gerrard 1
Lampard 0
Scholes 0
Premier League Player of the Month
Gerrard 6
Lampard 4
Scholes 4
Premier League Young Player of the Year
Gerrard 1
Lampard 0
Scholes 0
Journalists’ and Writers’ Premier League Player of the Year
Gerrard 1
Lampard 1
Scholes 0
Fans Premier League Player of the Year
Gerrard 2
Lampard 1
Scholes 0
England National Team Player of the Year
Gerrard 2
Lampard 2
Scholes 0
UEFA Euro Team of the Tournament
Gerrard 1
Lampard 1
Scholes 0
UEFA Ultimate Team
Gerrard 1
Lampard 0
Scholes 0
FIFA World XI Nominations
Gerrard 8
Lampard 8
Scholes 2
FIFA World Player of the Year
Lampard 2nd
FIFA World XI
Gerrard 3
Lampard 1
Scholes 0
UEFA Team of the Year
Gerrard 3
Lampard 0
Scholes 0
UEFA Player of the year
Gerrard 1
Lampard 0
Scholes 0
Highest Ballon D’or Finish
Lampard 2nd
Gerrard 3rd
PFA Team of the Year
Gerrard 8
Lampard 5
Scholes 2
PFA Player of the Year
Gerrard 1
Lampard 0
Scholes 0
Premier League Player of the Month
Gerrard 6
Lampard 4
Scholes 4
Premier League Young Player of the Year
Gerrard 1
Lampard 0
Scholes 0
Journalists’ and Writers’ Premier League Player of the Year
Gerrard 1
Lampard 1
Scholes 0
Fans Premier League Player of the Year
Gerrard 2
Lampard 1
Scholes 0
England National Team Player of the Year
Gerrard 2
Lampard 2
Scholes 0
UEFA Euro Team of the Tournament
Gerrard 1
Lampard 1
Scholes 0
UEFA Ultimate Team
Gerrard 1
Lampard 0
Scholes 0
And Nigel Martyn has appeared in more Team of the Year's than Peter Schmeichel. It's not the be all and end all.
Overall I agree with you. Zidane was the ultimate big game player. If I were asked to pick a team in a hypothetical life-or-death one-off match, Zidane is first player picked everytime. But to pick a team to perform week in, week out over the course of a season? Zidane's not even in the reckoning.
That's the big difference with Pogba at the moment. Pogba is no better in the big games than he is in the smaller ones. He's capable of being brilliant in either, but equally capable of disappearing entirely.
Rubbish from start to finish. Even Riquelme doesn't think he was as good as Zidane.
Seriously, did he just suggest David Batty out performed him? Wow, just wow, this place.
Scholes might be the greatest midfielder I've ever seen, for me he's up there with Zidane. He was complete.
I know.. And that Schmeichel only was in it once is criminal. My point was to add some perspective. He wasn't regarded as one of the very best when he played, not even among your own, but his reputation has grown among your fans every year since he retired. He is probably underrated by neutrals, and overrated by your own imo.
Last edited:
Your last sentence is probably right. I will say that, while most fans would back their own player, you really did have to watch Scholes live to appreciate how good he was. I've never seen anybody else make football look so easy, and against/among other top players too.
Wat
Scholes was phenomenal player, there is a reason so many of his peers wax lyrical about him and that's because every player wants to play with someone like him who amplifies their own abilities, his speed of thought of thought off set any lack of pace he had, and his one or two touch football was peerless among any other English player.
I'd say what made him so special what not just is range of passing but the technique he used to "ping" his passes rather than float them over, he managed to strike the ball in a way that the ball didn't hang in the air so that the team mate receiving the pass had an extra yard or two of space, which is why so many of our goals came from a quick switch off player that allowed either Giggs or Beckham to grab the assist. His assist statistics don't justify just how much he helped create our chances and why it's naive that people use Gerard and Lampards numbers when trying to argue they're the better players. To use a wrestling anolgoy, Scholes was a player who constantly but other players over.
I'd say what made him so special what not just is range of passing but the technique he used to "ping" his passes rather than float them over, he managed to strike the ball in a way that the ball didn't hang in the air so that the team mate receiving the pass had an extra yard or two of space, which is why so many of our goals came from a quick switch off player that allowed either Giggs or Beckham to grab the assist. His assist statistics don't justify just how much he helped create our chances and why it's naive that people use Gerard and Lampards numbers when trying to argue they're the better players. To use a wrestling anolgoy, Scholes was a player who constantly but other players over.
One thing I don't see in our midfielders these days is them assessing everything before they get the ball.
By the time Scholes received the ball he'd already had 2 or 3 looks around and him and knew exactly how long he'd get on the ball, who was where and which players were about to make runs. Even if he had no options he was great at that little shoulder drop to give himself some room. I miss him.
By the time Scholes received the ball he'd already had 2 or 3 looks around and him and knew exactly how long he'd get on the ball, who was where and which players were about to make runs. Even if he had no options he was great at that little shoulder drop to give himself some room. I miss him.
Individually, Zidane was a more effective player yes. But the influence Scholes had on games and those around him shouldn’t be dismissed!
Read the comments about Scholes from fellow pros and managers that others have posted. If almost every top player and manager of that period says he was the benchmark, how was he possibly not World-class?
Also, Beckham finished 2nd twice in World Player of the Year twice over that period. Does that make him a better player than Scholes? Not a chance!
That award is more about how marketable you are as a player than purely down to ability. Scholes didn’t play ball with the media, so the media weren’t interested.
That goes back to my original point of England not utilising his talent correctly. Xavi and Pirlo were rightly used as the heartbeats of their respective sides. Scholes was always shunted out of position, just because he had the talent to play anywhere. If England had made him the heartbeat of the side, we would have been far more successful.
The year Blackburn won the title was the first season Scholes played in the Premier League. That season (as you’ve already mentioned), he wasn’t playing as an out and out central midfielder. Scholes then contributed significantly (10 goals) to your title win the following season.
And I’m pretty sure SAF would fundamentally disagree with you about how indespensable Scholes was!
Players like Pirlo and Seedorf are rightly lauded as being outstanding in their positions. They both had seasons where they were more effective midfield players than Paul Scholes. But neither of them did it for as long, as consistently as Scholes!
He was injured at the start of the 2007/08 season which is why he didn’t feature until January, after which he featured heavily!
He also played in the 2009 CL final coming on for Giggs.
Come on, at least get your history right!! I’m not even a United supporter.
Zidane and Xavi picked him in their all-time British XI
Pirlo picked him in his all-time World XI
Amazing player but slightly over rated by us United fans and under rated by a large proportion of fans of other teams.
For me he is the 4th best CM in United’s history.
Charlton,
Robson
Keane,
Scholes.
That order for me, which is nothing against Scholes because he was amazing, but the others mentioned were slightly better in my opinion. Except Charlton who was a lot better and the best player in the clubs history so that is not to knock Scholesy.
For me he is the 4th best CM in United’s history.
Charlton,
Robson
Keane,
Scholes.
That order for me, which is nothing against Scholes because he was amazing, but the others mentioned were slightly better in my opinion. Except Charlton who was a lot better and the best player in the clubs history so that is not to knock Scholesy.
What year did you begin watching football by the way? Just curious because that is a bold statement. I love Scholes and he is one of my favourite ever players but some of the over rating in here is OTT.
This. If you watch Paul Scholes and don't consider him world class, then you don't understand football.
Was it SAF that said Scholes saw football like he was watching from the stands? His vision and quick thinking was like nothing I've ever seen before. He knew exactly where all the space and player were instantly and had the technique to pull it all off. Whilst he doesn't come across as particularly charismatic or intelligent in his punditry, the fella is an Einstein level genius on a football pitch.
I think it reflects pretty accurate how the three of them is seen by the average football fan.
Always remember Scholes coming on at half time, I think against Charlton the last game of the season, the year he had his eye problem.
He ran the game, walking ! He looked like a professional who'd agreed to play in a Sunday league game.
I think a lot of opposition fans don't understand what made Scholes great....it was his ability to read the game. He knew where the ball was going before he received it. The game was easier for him than his peers.
Other individuals mentioned got more recognition because they were individuals, particularly Gerrard epitomises to me personal glory over team goals. Got a lot of personal recognition but very little team reward. He wouldn't have got in United treble winning side at any point of his career because he couldn't have replaced any of the players and offered more to the team.
He ran the game, walking ! He looked like a professional who'd agreed to play in a Sunday league game.
I think a lot of opposition fans don't understand what made Scholes great....it was his ability to read the game. He knew where the ball was going before he received it. The game was easier for him than his peers.
Other individuals mentioned got more recognition because they were individuals, particularly Gerrard epitomises to me personal glory over team goals. Got a lot of personal recognition but very little team reward. He wouldn't have got in United treble winning side at any point of his career because he couldn't have replaced any of the players and offered more to the team.
Haha Kovacic mentioning Scholes as a great tackler. Obviously most of Scholes tackles were tactical fouls but he was not a good tackler by any means.
People are putting too much weight on what other footballers have said. I'm not saying that Zidane talks bullshit, but he said exactly the same thing about Gerrard. And when he's being asked about someone, of course he's gonna say good things. And maybe he genuinly thought that Scholes were great, and Scholes was great, but it's not like Zidane watched Manchester United week in and week out. People act like Zidane sat at home analyzing Scholes every move every week, he didn't.
Scholes was a great player. But look at the facts. He never even won player of the year at United, not once. Never made top 50 at ballon do'r (or something like that), if Zidane thought he was that great he could've voted for him. Again, I'm not saying Scholes wasn't great because he was. But especially here, he is a little bit overrated. I think it's because Scholes was really great for his age, at the end of his career. Imo Scholes had his best years from 06-10 or something like that, when he sat deeper.
Oh yeah, there's no way that Kovacic, born in 1994, can give a fair statement on Scholes career.
Scholes was a great player. But look at the facts. He never even won player of the year at United, not once. Never made top 50 at ballon do'r (or something like that), if Zidane thought he was that great he could've voted for him. Again, I'm not saying Scholes wasn't great because he was. But especially here, he is a little bit overrated. I think it's because Scholes was really great for his age, at the end of his career. Imo Scholes had his best years from 06-10 or something like that, when he sat deeper.
Oh yeah, there's no way that Kovacic, born in 1994, can give a fair statement on Scholes career.
Would have been around 96', 97' I think. I was about 10 or 11. Such a golden era for football. I would say Scholes is the best midfielder England have ever produced, if he were Italian, French or Spanish he'd have won World Cups and been played in position.
He was a truly great player. Never really hit the heights with England, but not many England players of his generation did. The only thing he couldn't really do was tackle - his red card tally was a testament to that.
The defintion of a good player: someone who has a positive influence on the pitch for his team. The more positive the influence, the better the player.
Generally speaking, goals are the biggest influence. But there is occasionally that rare kind of player who can run a game on his own. Somebody who it's impossible to stand-off, but also impossible to close-down. Somebody who can set the tempo of his own team and force the opposition to play at the tempo of his choosing Scholes was the best at that.
Alongisde Xavi and Pirlo, he was the biggest influencer I've ever seen in midfield.
But the thing that elevates Scholes above Xavi and Pirlo is the fact that he was equally world class as a goal-scoring #10 and as a box-to-box midfielder. He's the only man I've seen capable of being the most important influence on the pitch in 3 totally different roles.
After Messi and Ronaldo, he's as good as any player in the last 25 years. If you were building a title winning team, you'd pick him before someone like Zidane (who would blow hot and cold during a season).
Generally speaking, goals are the biggest influence. But there is occasionally that rare kind of player who can run a game on his own. Somebody who it's impossible to stand-off, but also impossible to close-down. Somebody who can set the tempo of his own team and force the opposition to play at the tempo of his choosing Scholes was the best at that.
Alongisde Xavi and Pirlo, he was the biggest influencer I've ever seen in midfield.
But the thing that elevates Scholes above Xavi and Pirlo is the fact that he was equally world class as a goal-scoring #10 and as a box-to-box midfielder. He's the only man I've seen capable of being the most important influence on the pitch in 3 totally different roles.
After Messi and Ronaldo, he's as good as any player in the last 25 years. If you were building a title winning team, you'd pick him before someone like Zidane (who would blow hot and cold during a season).
This says it all really. I am in my 30s so saw Scholes week in week out for his career and I felt he played a less important role to United than Beckham. I always say Beckham as our main go to guy.
Beckham looked better to the layperson. Just like Gerrard and Lampard might have done as well.
The influences on the game of Gerrard, Lampard and Beckham are easier to see because those influences are replayed ad infinitum on highlights. By contrast, Scholes' influence has to be appreciated in the moment.
There's a reason why those shared a pitch with Scholes for the both the opposition (Zidane, Xavi, Henry, etc.) and United (Rooney, Ronaldo, RvP, etc.) rated him as the best player on the park.
You couldn't nullify Scholes' influence and it was bloody difficult to eclipse it too. He was rarely anything other than the central cog in the machine, even when there were others getting more slow-mos on MOTD.
Scholes coming out of retirement at 37 years of age and being the best midfielder in the league helping United to win the last title sums up how ridiculously good he was. Not sure how can someone even mention Gerrard in one sentence. He's tier or two below in every aspects of a footballer.
Him being shy and totally out of spotlight compared to the primadonnas like Gerrard or Lampard who were simply too big personas to be benched (by someone as poor as SGE made Paul Scholes play from the flank which would be probably the biggest crime in the football history and only underlines why England didn't win anything) made a lot of people believe they could be on the same level or higher. We all know how stupid people make nominations. I'd rather believe players like Pele, Zidane, Xavi, Riquelme, Ronaldo and many other world class palyers who played with or against him and claim him to be the best midfielder, rather than some daft journos
Him being shy and totally out of spotlight compared to the primadonnas like Gerrard or Lampard who were simply too big personas to be benched (by someone as poor as SGE made Paul Scholes play from the flank which would be probably the biggest crime in the football history and only underlines why England didn't win anything) made a lot of people believe they could be on the same level or higher. We all know how stupid people make nominations. I'd rather believe players like Pele, Zidane, Xavi, Riquelme, Ronaldo and many other world class palyers who played with or against him and claim him to be the best midfielder, rather than some daft journos
A little genius who could control the pace of a game, and spread the ball around the field with perfect precision passes.
Firstly can I just apologise as I do not know how to do partial quotes!
Again sorry for the bold, as I know no other way
Yet SAF bought Veron………...
I used to say to my mate years ago, watch Scholes, it's mostly ever 2 touches with him wherever he is on the pitch.
The first to receive the ball and trap it, the second to ping a pass. There's not many in the world that can do that at top level football.
The first to receive the ball and trap it, the second to ping a pass. There's not many in the world that can do that at top level football.
Scholes was brilliant but I do feel that some of the deification in recent years has been slightly over the top, while also believing that Giggs has been downgraded to close to an absurd level, partly due to the combined antipathy over his personal life and obvious desire to manage Utd.
Zidane being overrated has been mentioned several times in this thread, maybe if you go by stats, which far too many do these days, but you only had to watch him at Madrid surrounded by world class talent in Raul, Figo, Carlos, Ronaldo, Beckham, Makalele, Guti. Great players around hm but he was pretty clearly the best of them all, technically magnificent and a joy to watch before the game became entirely about numbers for attacking players. An artist.
Zidane being overrated has been mentioned several times in this thread, maybe if you go by stats, which far too many do these days, but you only had to watch him at Madrid surrounded by world class talent in Raul, Figo, Carlos, Ronaldo, Beckham, Makalele, Guti. Great players around hm but he was pretty clearly the best of them all, technically magnificent and a joy to watch before the game became entirely about numbers for attacking players. An artist.
Neither have seen all British players play and did Pirlo nominate him whilst he was playing? you have to take the players comments with a pinch of salt. If I show you the superlatives of Gerrard you will have a heart attack. Literally compared to Messi (as more important) by top top players. Its a joke.