How good was Paul Scholes?

The defintion of a good player: someone who has a positive influence on the pitch for his team. The more positive the influence, the better the player.

Generally speaking, goals are the biggest influence. But there is occasionally that rare kind of player who can run a game on his own. Somebody who it's impossible to stand-off, but also impossible to close-down. Somebody who can set the tempo of his own team and force the opposition to play at the tempo of his choosing Scholes was the best at that.

Alongisde Xavi and Pirlo, he was the biggest influencer I've ever seen in midfield.

But the thing that elevates Scholes above Xavi and Pirlo is the fact that he was equally world class as a goal-scoring #10 and as a box-to-box midfielder. He's the only man I've seen capable of being the most important influence on the pitch in 3 totally different roles.

After Messi and Ronaldo, he's as good as any player in the last 25 years. If you were building a title winning team, you'd pick him before someone like Zidane (who would blow hot and cold during a season).
Modric? I don't think you can compare Scholes and Xavi because whoever has Xavi on their team, WILL dominate the midfield and the opposition has to simply surrender possession and even go 2 banks of 4 behind the ball.
Scholes was not world class as a 10 as he did little on the world stage in that role. A very good EPL season isn't enough. Gotta do at on the greater stage. As a B2B he was regularly outshined by Vieira and Keane in England
 
Some will have you believe he was the second coming of Cruyff, and yet, despite his longevity, he was never even Man Uniteds player of the year. In fact, his personal honours suggests, that he was pretty far behind Gerrard and Lampard.

FIFA World XI Nominations
Gerrard 8
Lampard 8
Scholes 2

FIFA World Player of the Year
Lampard 2nd

FIFA World XI
Gerrard 3
Lampard 1
Scholes 0

UEFA Team of the Year
Gerrard 3
Lampard 0
Scholes 0

UEFA Player of the year
Gerrard 1
Lampard 0
Scholes 0

Highest Ballon D’or Finish
Lampard 2nd
Gerrard 3rd

PFA Team of the Year
Gerrard 8
Lampard 5
Scholes 2

PFA Player of the Year
Gerrard 1
Lampard 0
Scholes 0

Premier League Player of the Month
Gerrard 6
Lampard 4
Scholes 4

Premier League Young Player of the Year
Gerrard 1
Lampard 0
Scholes 0

Journalists’ and Writers’ Premier League Player of the Year
Gerrard 1
Lampard 1
Scholes 0

Fans Premier League Player of the Year
Gerrard 2
Lampard 1
Scholes 0

England National Team Player of the Year
Gerrard 2
Lampard 2
Scholes 0

UEFA Euro Team of the Tournament
Gerrard 1
Lampard 1
Scholes 0

UEFA Ultimate Team
Gerrard 1
Lampard 0
Scholes 0
Scholes was too old school for that shit.

I'm not even a United fan, but him and SAF are among the select few people that I'd always admire and respect, whom I'd love to meet one day, they're among the fundamental reasons that I love this sport, and I miss them dearly, to some it might look like something that one would say to look good, something that Pep would say for example... but I'm being really honest here.
 
Yet SAF bought Veron………...
:lol:

At the time that Veron was signed, it was Beckham whose spot was considered under threat, not Scholes!

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/2213524/veron-paraded-as-uniteds-record-signing
"Of course David Beckham's position is safe. Veron will be wearing number four next year."

Also, don't forget that Fergie was the master of squad rotation. He wanted world class options on the bench in those days. FWIW, Scholes played more than Veron, Keane, Beckham and Giggs in that season.
 
I think the gist I am getting from this thread is people claim Scholes is Xavi when he plays CM, Lampard and Gerrard as Attacking B2B and Baggio as a 10.This would be the greatest player in history. The reality is he is the highest level versatile player in that he can play the most roles to a higher standard without being the best or top 3 in any one position when he was playing. This isn't me underrating him, it's just I have been very fixed from day one, what my idea of world class is. His high technique with striking and passing is a big feature in his versatility, as with his off the ball movement and 1st touch.
 
:lol:

At the time that Veron was signed, it was Beckham whose spot was considered under threat, not Scholes!

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/2213524/veron-paraded-as-uniteds-record-signing


Also, don't forget that Fergie was the master of squad rotation. He wanted world class options on the bench in those days. FWIW, Scholes played more than Veron, Keane, Beckham and Giggs in that season.
Not by SAF which is the most relevant. He said Veron will be wearing 4, thus will be playing CM. Thus Scholes' position was under threat and got shoved forward to a different position to accommodate Veron. Scholes even went on strike at one point as he was being left out of games for Seba. he even admitted this. Long term he had an outstanding season at 10 so it worked out in 2003 as Scholsey was on fire.
 
Scholes coming out of retirement at 37 years of age and being the best midfielder in the league helping United to win the last title sums up how ridiculously good he was. Not sure how can someone even mention Gerrard in one sentence. He's tier or two below in every aspects of a footballer.

Him being shy and totally out of spotlight compared to the primadonnas like Gerrard or Lampard who were simply too big personas to be benched (by someone as poor as SGE made Paul Scholes play from the flank which would be probably the biggest crime in the football history and only underlines why England didn't win anything) made a lot of people believe they could be on the same level or higher. We all know how stupid people make nominations. I'd rather believe players like Pele, Zidane, Xavi, Riquelme, Ronaldo and many other world class palyers who played with or against him and claim him to be the best midfielder, rather than some daft journos
FFS

Zidane: "Is he the best in the world? He might not get the attention of (Lionel) Messi and Ronaldo but yes, I think he just might be.If you don't have a player like Steven Gerrard, who is the engine room, it can affect the whole team. When we were winning league titles and European Cups at Real, I always said Claude Makelele was our most important player. There is no way myself, (Luis) Figo or Raul would have been able to do what we did without Claude and the same goes for Liverpool and Gerrard. He has great passing ability, can tackle and scores goals, but most importantly he gives the players around him confidence and belief. You can't learn that -- players like him are just born with that presence."

Zidane again: "Alex Ferguson is obviously one of the most successful coaches the game has ever had. But I did find his comments about Steven Gerrard very strange. To say he is not a top player is wrong. For two or three years, Steven Gerrard was the best midfield player in the world.

Messi: “Personally, I think Gerrard is England’s greatest ever player."

Ronaldinho: "Cristiano is a great player. But Steven Gerrard is, for me, one of the very best in the world. For the job he performs, for me, he is one of the greatest."

Henry: "I find it a disgrace that he didn’t win European Footballer of the Year in 2005 after Istanbul. For me, he is one of the best ever. Whenever you play Liverpool you know you have to get him out of the game. If not, it’s all over for you. “He’s a midfielder and if you look at all the important goals he’s scored - well I can’t even think of a striker in the world who has scored as many important goals, never mind a midfielder. How many times has he done it in the dying seconds of a game? I am trying to think of a striker now who does it - there aren’t any. Think about it."

Totti: "I'd put Gerrard in the top three, not just in England but in the world because he's a complete player."

Bryan Robson: "For me Gerrard can do everything and that's the reason I'd say he was the best of the three if I had to split them ahead of Scholes and Lampard in that order. They are all top professionals and each brought different attributes and strengths but Gerrard can tackle, defend, score goals, head it, make a telling precision pass, dictate the tempo and is a powerful runner. He has a bit more to his game."

Pele: "The fans, they look only for forwards, always a forward," Pele told Sky Sports News. "Somebody who scores. "Sometimes you have a player like Gerrard. "For me, for the last five years Gerrard has been the best player in the world. "He is a midfielder, he plays very good. People didn't mention Gerrard, now they mention Ronaldinho, Ronaldo, Messi because they are forwards."
 
Scholes coming out of retirement at 37 years of age and being the best midfielder in the league helping United to win the last title sums up how ridiculously good he was. Not sure how can someone even mention Gerrard in one sentence. He's tier or two below in every aspects of a footballer.

Him being shy and totally out of spotlight compared to the primadonnas like Gerrard or Lampard who were simply too big personas to be benched (by someone as poor as SGE made Paul Scholes play from the flank which would be probably the biggest crime in the football history and only underlines why England didn't win anything) made a lot of people believe they could be on the same level or higher. We all know how stupid people make nominations. I'd rather believe players like Pele, Zidane, Xavi, Riquelme, Ronaldo and many other world class palyers who played with or against him and claim him to be the best midfielder, rather than some daft journos

Come on now, those are the type of statements that are unrealistic. He only started 8 league games during the 12/13 season, and very few of them were during the meat of the season when the title was being won. To suggest that he was the best midfielder in the league after his come back from retirement is simply not true, it was a nice story, it enriches his legacy but you are massively overstating his impact in that season.
 
For me he is the 4th best CM in United’s history.

Charlton,
Robson
Keane,
Scholes.

That order for me, which is nothing against Scholes because he was amazing, but the others mentioned were slightly better in my opinion. Except Charlton who was a lot better and the best player in the clubs history so that is not to knock Scholesy.
I'd probably agree with this, even though he's one of the two of my all-time favourite United players alongside Cantona.
Charlton is in a tier of his own, considering both his peak and longevity, and Keane with Robson were a better all-rounders, as well as vocal captains and, perhaps, the more obvious match-winners on their own (Juve '99, Barca '84 come to mind first).
 
Top class midfielder (defending, attacking, passing, pacing, you name it) and long-range shooter.

Complicated personality (maybe because of issues with height/gingerisms?), one of SAF's protegées, one-man club, bleeds Man Utd.
 
Would have been around 96', 97' I think. I was about 10 or 11. Such a golden era for football. I would say Scholes is the best midfielder England have ever produced, if he were Italian, French or Spanish he'd have won World Cups and been played in position.

So you have witnessed Xavi and Zidane but then say Scholes is the best CM you have ever seen. He is not on their level. Great player but not that great.

Best midfielder England ever produced is the over statement of the century. That accolade goes to Bobby Charlton. Brian Robson was better.

From none United fans Gerrard and Lampard tend to be rated higher, Scholes is better in my opinion but if he was a lot better than them two then not even none United fans would debate who was better.

Scholes was wonderful but he was never as great as people on here remember.

I'd probably agree with this, even though he's one the two of my all-time favourite United players alongside Cantona.
Charlton is in a tier of his own, considering both his peak and longevity, and Keane with Robson were a better all-rounders, as well as vocal captains and, perhaps, the more obvious match-winners on their own (Juve '99, Barca '84 come to mind first).

Couldn't agree more.
 
FFS

Zidane: "Is he the best in the world? He might not get the attention of (Lionel) Messi and Ronaldo but yes, I think he just might be.If you don't have a player like Steven Gerrard, who is the engine room, it can affect the whole team. When we were winning league titles and European Cups at Real, I always said Claude Makelele was our most important player. There is no way myself, (Luis) Figo or Raul would have been able to do what we did without Claude and the same goes for Liverpool and Gerrard. He has great passing ability, can tackle and scores goals, but most importantly he gives the players around him confidence and belief. You can't learn that -- players like him are just born with that presence."

Zidane again: "Alex Ferguson is obviously one of the most successful coaches the game has ever had. But I did find his comments about Steven Gerrard very strange. To say he is not a top player is wrong. For two or three years, Steven Gerrard was the best midfield player in the world.

Messi: “Personally, I think Gerrard is England’s greatest ever player."

Ronaldinho: "Cristiano is a great player. But Steven Gerrard is, for me, one of the very best in the world. For the job he performs, for me, he is one of the greatest."

Henry: "I find it a disgrace that he didn’t win European Footballer of the Year in 2005 after Istanbul. For me, he is one of the best ever. Whenever you play Liverpool you know you have to get him out of the game. If not, it’s all over for you. “He’s a midfielder and if you look at all the important goals he’s scored - well I can’t even think of a striker in the world who has scored as many important goals, never mind a midfielder. How many times has he done it in the dying seconds of a game? I am trying to think of a striker now who does it - there aren’t any. Think about it."

Totti: "I'd put Gerrard in the top three, not just in England but in the world because he's a complete player."

Bryan Robson: "For me Gerrard can do everything and that's the reason I'd say he was the best of the three if I had to split them ahead of Scholes and Lampard in that order. They are all top professionals and each brought different attributes and strengths but Gerrard can tackle, defend, score goals, head it, make a telling precision pass, dictate the tempo and is a powerful runner. He has a bit more to his game."

Pele: "The fans, they look only for forwards, always a forward," Pele told Sky Sports News. "Somebody who scores. "Sometimes you have a player like Gerrard. "For me, for the last five years Gerrard has been the best player in the world. "He is a midfielder, he plays very good. People didn't mention Gerrard, now they mention Ronaldinho, Ronaldo, Messi because they are forwards."
okay fair enough for the quotes but the difference in quality between the two is still obvious
 
Way better than the current version of Pogba.

But If Pogba gets rid of his agent, He'll be closer. :angel:
 
Come on now, those are the type of statements that are unrealistic. He only started 8 league games during the 12/13 season, and very few of them were during the meat of the season when the title was being won. To suggest that he was the best midfielder in the league after his come back from retirement is simply not true, it was a nice story, it enriches his legacy but you are massively overstating his impact in that season.
did he? I remember him bossing it everytime he got on the pitch and few pundits mentioning him up top with the best midfielders in the league, surely it was a team effort to win it but he was a big part of it
 
Way better than the current version of Pogba.

But If Pogba gets rid of his agent, He'll be closer. :angel:

Gerrard is actually a better comparison for Pogba than Scholes. Still imperfect but Gerrard was a fantastic talent, highly dynamic and athletically gifted, with wonderful range of passing/shooting, a big game player as well. Lacked discipline and it was only really very late in his career that he showed that he understood how to play a more orthodox midfield role. Scholes was more intelligent player than both, perhaps forced to be because of his lower athletic talent.
 
did he? I remember him bossing it everytime he got on the pitch and few pundits mentioning him up top with the best midfielders in the league, surely it was a team effort to win it but he was a big part of it

You are probably remembering the previous season of his comeback. Narratives matter though, Scholes coming back was a great story, and for those 3/4 months he was at times very good. The next season though he had little left to give, which he even acknowledged himself when talking to BT about it. Too lazy to search for the Vid but I can recall him stating that he should have retired for good as soon as the those few months were up.
 
Personally I'd compare

Zidane > Lampard
Scholes = Iniesta
Sneijder = Fàbregas
Gerrard < Xavi/Pirlo
Gattuso = Busquets

all of them the best midfielders from 1998 to 2012 (until the emergence of Modric, Kroos, Pogba, etc.)
 
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You are probably remembering the previous season of his comeback. Narratives matter though, Scholes coming back was a great story, and for those 3/4 months he was at times very good. The next season though he had little left to give, which he even acknowledged himself when talking to BT about it. Too lazy to search for the Vid but I can recall him stating that he should have retired for good as soon as the those few months were up.
oh yeah, that's the season before then. I think you are correct on this, he wasn't that influential in the last half-season, he was phased out sort of
 
Personally I'd compare

Zidane > Lampard
Scholes = Iniesta
Gerrard < Xavi/Pirlo
Gattuso = Busquets

all of them the best midfielders from 1998 to 2012 (until the emergence of Modric, Kroos, Pogba, etc.)

Gattuso does not belong on that list, certainly not over the likes of Seedorf, Ballack, Davids, Vieria.
 
okay fair enough for the quotes but the difference in quality between the two is still obvious
to who though? very few people in football say this except United fans I am not trying to be diplomatic. I would argue that most in the football community see Gerrard as the greater player, and pretty much demonstrated this by giving him all the recognition whilst he was active.
 
Gattuso does not belong on that list, certainly not over the likes of Seedorf, Ballack, Davids, Vieria.

I'd be interesting to establish who was the best of these 4 (vieira, keane, seedorf, david2s) but Ballack??? Michael Feckin Ballack???:lol: But Effenberg...now that's something
 
I'd be interesting to establish who was the better of these 4 (vieira, keane, seedorf, davids) but Ballack??? Michael Feckin Ballack???:lol:

Ballack was a brilliant player, but if you only remember him from his Chelsea days when he had to forgo some of his strengths to allow Lampard the freedom to attack I could understand him being underrated. Fantastic for Leverkusen and Bayern where he was allowed to be primarily a goalscoring midfielder. His record for Germany is phenomenal, 42 goals in 98 games. At that level(international) he was easily better than Lampard, Scholes or Gerrard.
 
Dont understand the massive revisionism this player has had since retirement. Was never close to winning a top individual award during his playing career yet people are placing him with the likes of zidane iniesta xavi etc.
Did he ever win poty for Man Utd during his career ? A consitently top player like giggs for years but his ceiling has been massively overrated since he hung up his boots.
 
This says it all really. I am in my 30s so saw Scholes week in week out for his career and I felt he played a less important role to United than Beckham. I always say Beckham as our main go to guy.

Beckham main go to guy? You realise he left and we didn’t exactly suffer from it even though we replaced him with an 18 year old kid. Albeit, a kid who would turn out to be one of the GOAT, admittedly, but nevertheless — still a frustrating, prancing show pony.

If we took Scholes out we’d have been fecked.
 
Beckham main go to guy? You realise he left and we didn’t exactly suffer from it even though we replaced him with an 18 year old kid. Albeit, a kid who would turn out to be one of the GOAT, admittedly, but nevertheless — still a frustrating, prancing show pony.

If we took Scholes out we’d have been fecked.
You kind of answered yourself. Replaced him with a GOAT. For 3 seasons since Beckham's departure United had their worst league run since the EPL started until Beckham's replacement mutured into the best player in the world. This does not mean become was not our "go to guy" in any way, shape or form, it means we found a unique talent. And for the record, United still won a league title with Butt and Keane, when Scholes didn't feature because of injury.
 
Personally I'd compare

Zidane > Lampard
Scholes = Iniesta
Sneijder = Fàbregas
Gerrard < Xavi/Pirlo
Gattuso = Busquets

all of them the best midfielders from 1998 to 2012 (until the emergence of Modric, Kroos, Pogba, etc.)
Interesting that you, as a Barcelona supporter, equalled Gattuso, whose only world class attribute was his engine, to Busquets, who is the best defensive midfielder of his generation. And as much as I love Scholes, Iniesta is also significantly better — if only for of his impeccable dribbling ability and big game mentality.
 
Interesting that you, as a Barcelona supporter, equalled Gattuso, whose only world class attribute was his engine, to Busquets, who is the best defensive midfielder of his generation. And as much as I love Scholes, Iniesta is also significantly better — if only for of his impeccable dribbling ability and big game mentality.

Gattuso is one of the most overrated players of all time imo. You could compare Busquets to the likes of Makalele, Keane, Vieria, different styles but similar levels, but Gattuso? I am not even sure he was as good as the likes of Jens Jeremies, Van Bommel, Emerson.
 
Staggering England hasn't produced a similar player in midfield with technical skill and supreme vision.

I guess pace and power and dead ball skills are still over valued at grass roots level.
 
Modric? I don't think you can compare Scholes and Xavi because whoever has Xavi on their team, WILL dominate the midfield and the opposition has to simply surrender possession and even go 2 banks of 4 behind the ball.
Scholes was not world class as a 10 as he did little on the world stage in that role. A very good EPL season isn't enough. Gotta do at on the greater stage. As a B2B he was regularly outshined by Vieira and Keane in England
He will be first to admit it he isn't a box to box player because he couldn't get up and down the pitch.
 
Maybe just goes to show Scholes was one of a kind?

That he most certainly was.
To me the most relevant judgement of a player is to be judged by his peers and numerous top level players have stated that Paul Scholes was one of/the best midfielder of his age.

I am old enough to remember watching Sir Bobby Charlton. He moved around the pitch with such balance and grace and the way Scholes played reminded me of him. That and the way he struck the ball so cleanly.
 
An interesting debate, and Scholes is a great player.

But if you take him out of UTD’s team and put Gerrard in, you’re either as good, if not stronger.

Take Gerrard out of Liverpool, and put Scholes in, you get no Istanbul or the FA Cup win the year later.

Whilst Scholes was a great player, he never won Player of the Year, nor the Writers Player of the year. We can think what we will, but ultimately that says at any given time, in a dominant, winning all before them team, he was never seen by the wider public as the best midfielder in the league, or amongst his peers of course.

He wasn’t even the best midfielder at UTD, so let’s get things in to perspective.

Comparing him to Iniesta, as some have on here, is frankly amusing.

This doesn’t mean Scholes was not a great player, because he was.
 
Scholes will be a pub league player by the time oppo posters have finished their increasingly amusing assessments.
 
My God, we are talking about what Gerrard "could" have done, but didn't. He won a CL with Liverpool. Good. I don't need to recite what Scholes actually won because he did his talking on the pitch and has a trophy cabinet to show for it during the most dominant period one team has had in Englsih football history.
 
An interesting debate, and Scholes is a great player.

But if you take him out of UTD’s team and put Gerrard in, you’re either as good, if not stronger.

Take Gerrard out of Liverpool, and put Scholes in, you get no Istanbul or the FA Cup win the year later.

Whilst Scholes was a great player, he never won Player of the Year, nor the Writers Player of the year. We can think what we will, but ultimately that says at any given time, in a dominant, winning all before them team, he was never seen by the wider public as the best midfielder in the league, or amongst his peers of course.


Gerrard was Liverpool's leader. That was his role. But we're not comparing leadership abilities. While that shouldn't be ignored, when we're comparing football week in week out I'll take Scholes in his prime all day.