of course there's an assumption. a natural response based on the assumption that a western government should ban political cartoons involving mohammed in a manner "offensive" to muslims. absurd.
Imams Back Call for Danish Boycott
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
They have a right to respond that way... it doesn't matter that it's absurd, pointless and futile.
who said they didn't have a right? it just makes them look like twats and fascists for trying to get governments involved. we have a right to do plenty of things we shouldn't do, like walking down sunset blvd dressed like hitler. plenty legal, but still twat-like and fascist.
Kevrockcity said:
By you're analogy the paper has done plenty legal, but as you say still twat-like and fascist...
Exactly my point, act responsibly is the moral of the story.
you're right. the paper acted like twats and these cartoon (like most cartoons) were pretty simplistic and insensitive.
but regardless of their feelings on islam, they did not request that the government ban speech critical of or offensive to newspaper editors. so less twat-ish and fascist, certainly.
does the government have a role in making people speak responsibly? and if so, what is that role?
now that we've agreed on the newspaper's twat-ish and fascist qualities, can we agree that the muslim groups are twats and fascists?
but regardless of their feelings on islam, they did not request that the government ban speech critical of or offensive to newspaper editors. so less twat-ish and fascist, certainly.
does the government have a role in making people speak responsibly? and if so, what is that role?
now that we've agreed on the newspaper's twat-ish and fascist qualities, can we agree that the muslim groups are twats and fascists?
Kevrockcity said:
Excuse me Kev, someone 'fingers your arse' (excuse my language) and you are not suppose to react or even say 'ouch'. Oh it’s 'freedom of expression', if you do the same, you will be called all names.
I'm truly sorry I had to read this from you, Sultan. Claiming wisdom, you engage in a foolish arguement with language a fourth-grader would envy?Sultan said:
What wisdom or education has this achieved? I've always kind of looked at you as one of the few who really "get it" around here.
fecking hellWellesley said:I'm truly sorry I had to read this from you, Sultan. Claiming wisdom, you engage in a foolish arguement with language a fourth-grader would envy?
What wisdom or education has this achieved? I've always kind of looked at you as one of the few who really "get it" around here.
By the way, people here in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia are really serious about the boycott (mostly for milk products like cheese which is heavily consumed here) and now even supermarkets are taking all Danish products off their shelves.I think the Danish government should distance itself from these cartoons as the Norwegians did.Text messages are flying in the Muslim world for the boycott to be observed.
Sultan said:
The caricaturs where daft and uneccessary
The over reaction among SOME muslims is even more stupid
Sultan said:
Do you think the reaction of of death threats, muslim groups encouraging muslims to "hit targets" in Denmark and Norway etc are reasonable reactions?
A spokesman for Pakistanis in Norway said that because a tiny publication that a few thousand people in Norway reads had published this, we had asked for it all. Typical over reaction.
Wellesley said:I'm truly sorry I had to read this from you, Sultan. Claiming wisdom, you engage in a foolish arguement with language a fourth-grader would envy?
What wisdom or education has this achieved? I've always kind of looked at you as one of the few who really "get it" around here.
You're right Wellesley, the language I used was harsh (Arse) for me, for that I apologise, overeaction on my part for being labelled a terrorist as with rest of the Muslim World.
Sultan said:
NO ONE has labelled you a terrorist.
The editor of a Danish newspaper which printed blasphemous cartoons of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) has apologized, as anger spread throughout the Muslim world, threatening trade and security repercussions for Nordic countries.
"These cartoons were not in violation of Danish law but have irrefutably offended many Muslims, and for that we apologize," wrote Jyllands-Posten daily editor-in-chief Carsten Juste Monday, January 30, in a letter to the Petra news agency in Jordan.
Published last September, the 12 cartoons included portrayals of the Prophet wearing a time-bomb shaped turban and showed him as a knife-wielding nomad flanked by shrouded women.
Initially passing with little comment, they were later reprinted in a Norwegian magazine, prompting an international uproar and calls for an apology from leading Muslim scholars and politicians alike.
"Deeply Hurting"
"These cartoons were not in violation of Danish law but have irrefutably offended many Muslims, and for that we apologize," said Juste.
Danish Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen, who has refused to apologize on behalf of the Danish people, was quick to welcome the editor's contrition as protests continued against Danish interests in the Middle East, reported Agence France-Presse (AFP).
"We must note that what happened was something that really made spirits boil, deeply hurting many people who felt their religion had been violated," he said on DR1 public television
"These cartoons were not in violation of Danish law but have irrefutably offended many Muslims, and for that we apologize," wrote Jyllands-Posten daily editor-in-chief Carsten Juste Monday, January 30, in a letter to the Petra news agency in Jordan.
Published last September, the 12 cartoons included portrayals of the Prophet wearing a time-bomb shaped turban and showed him as a knife-wielding nomad flanked by shrouded women.
Initially passing with little comment, they were later reprinted in a Norwegian magazine, prompting an international uproar and calls for an apology from leading Muslim scholars and politicians alike.
"Deeply Hurting"
"These cartoons were not in violation of Danish law but have irrefutably offended many Muslims, and for that we apologize," said Juste.
Danish Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen, who has refused to apologize on behalf of the Danish people, was quick to welcome the editor's contrition as protests continued against Danish interests in the Middle East, reported Agence France-Presse (AFP).
"We must note that what happened was something that really made spirits boil, deeply hurting many people who felt their religion had been violated," he said on DR1 public television
An Extremely Boring Man said:
AEBM; with respect if you were aware of the structure of our religion, I have been labelled a terrorist. Has has the rest of the 1.5 Billion Muslims.
Sultan said:
That's just absurd, and not rational or logical at all.
You are an individual person, and can not or should not be held responsible for a whole religion.
I think this merely shows what the events of 9/11 (and before), 7/7 etc etc have lead to. There has been a huge rise in anti-Mulsim feeling in the "West" and not just amongst the far right nutbag population.
To be fair when you label us "Aussie sheep shaggers" there is at least a hint that you might be including me despite my dislike for the Welsh.
The more polarised views become the more inclusive stereotyping becomes and the further moderate members of the sterotyped group are likely to be pushed topwards that stereotype. Almost a self fulfilling prophecy.
The more polarised views become the more inclusive stereotyping becomes and the further moderate members of the sterotyped group are likely to be pushed topwards that stereotype. Almost a self fulfilling prophecy.
Wibble said:
Of course there has been.
And cases like this does not help build any bridges between different cultures, religions and people.
As I said above, publications do have a responisbility, and in this case has to carry much of the blame. On the other hand, in this case Muslims also have a responsibility. Just because a tiny Norwegian right-wing Christian publication publish something the muslims find offensive, they cannot defend death threats and encouragement of terror actions against a whole nation.
These publications are guilty of lack of common sense, lack of sensitivity, and provocation.
The muslims are guilty of overreaction.
The countries in question - and the people of these countries, Norway and Denmark, are guilty of nothing in this case.
An Extremely Boring Man said:
I knew you would come back with that answer-Prophet Muhammad ( SAW ) is believed by Muslims to be the role model for their lives as individuals and communities-when that role model is depicted as being a terrorist the finger is automatically pointing towards us as Muslims.
Wibble said:
Absolutely Wibbs...
Sultan said:
1) Do muslims not understand caricaturs?
2) Are non-muslims not allowed to question your prophets?
3) Do these actions warrant the reactions of some muslims, including death threats and encouragement of terror?
4) Am I responsible for the actions of a publication, just because that publication happens to be based in the same country as me?
Arla’s sales in the Middle East come to a standstill
Production for the area seriously threatened
The boycott of Danish products in the Middle East is now almost total. All Arla’s customers in the region have cancelled their orders and sales have come to a standstill in almost all markets. Arla’s warehouses are full, and further products sent before the boycott started are on their way from Denmark. Within the next few days, Arla will decide whether to suspend production for the Middle East. This is primarily centred at Bislev and Holstebro dairies and Akafa.
“Once sales in the Middle East have come to a standstill, this inevitably has consequences for the production,” says Jens Refslund, Director of Arla’s Production Division. “A decision about what we do next will be taken within the next few days. After that, staff will be informed.”
As at 11am on Sunday, the situation, according to Arla’s staff in the Middle East, was as follows:
Saudi Arabia: The boycott of Danish products is the main story in the Saudi media. The key topic is a Danish survey which shows that 79% of the Danish population believe that no apology for the cartoons in Jyllands-Posten is due. There are also calls for clarification from the Danish Government. Arla’s importers have cancelled all orders. Arla’s dairy in Saudi Arabia, Danya, is trying to establish contact with retailers, but sales have come to a complete standstill.
Kuwait: The matter has been given wide coverage in the Sunday newspapers. Arla’s sales have ceased completely and it is believed that products have been removed from shelves in around 33% of stores.
Qatar: The issue occupies many column inches. Danish products have been removed from the shelves in almost all supermarkets. Sales have come to a standstill.
Bahrain: The issue has reached Bahrain, where four or five supermarkets have removed Danish products from their shelves. Sales have stopped.
The Emirates: The issue is taking up much media space, particularly the survey which shows that 79% of Danes believe that no apology is due. Danish products have been removed from the shelves in at least six supermarket chains and it is expected that Arla’s products will be removed everywhere within a relatively short time.
Production for the area seriously threatened
The boycott of Danish products in the Middle East is now almost total. All Arla’s customers in the region have cancelled their orders and sales have come to a standstill in almost all markets. Arla’s warehouses are full, and further products sent before the boycott started are on their way from Denmark. Within the next few days, Arla will decide whether to suspend production for the Middle East. This is primarily centred at Bislev and Holstebro dairies and Akafa.
“Once sales in the Middle East have come to a standstill, this inevitably has consequences for the production,” says Jens Refslund, Director of Arla’s Production Division. “A decision about what we do next will be taken within the next few days. After that, staff will be informed.”
As at 11am on Sunday, the situation, according to Arla’s staff in the Middle East, was as follows:
Saudi Arabia: The boycott of Danish products is the main story in the Saudi media. The key topic is a Danish survey which shows that 79% of the Danish population believe that no apology for the cartoons in Jyllands-Posten is due. There are also calls for clarification from the Danish Government. Arla’s importers have cancelled all orders. Arla’s dairy in Saudi Arabia, Danya, is trying to establish contact with retailers, but sales have come to a complete standstill.
Kuwait: The matter has been given wide coverage in the Sunday newspapers. Arla’s sales have ceased completely and it is believed that products have been removed from shelves in around 33% of stores.
Qatar: The issue occupies many column inches. Danish products have been removed from the shelves in almost all supermarkets. Sales have come to a standstill.
Bahrain: The issue has reached Bahrain, where four or five supermarkets have removed Danish products from their shelves. Sales have stopped.
The Emirates: The issue is taking up much media space, particularly the survey which shows that 79% of Danes believe that no apology is due. Danish products have been removed from the shelves in at least six supermarket chains and it is expected that Arla’s products will be removed everywhere within a relatively short time.
An Extremely Boring Man said:
Sultan said:
I understand that is the case. But muslims must understand, and have a responsibility to understand, that although it is taboo in your world, it is not taboo in other cultures, and cartoons have been used in the western world for ages - often in a very provocative fashion.
Sultan said:
Then muslims must also accept that in non-muslim countries it might be presented in ways that are not acceptable in muslim countries
Sultan said:
Exactly. Does this mean you are against these reactions we see in the Arab world now?
Sultan said:
Good. Hopefully all this is now being put to rest then.
I believe that media people must be alert of risks that may arise as a result of their actions. Sometimes your freedom ends where others freedom begins,its a freedom if a muslim respects his prophet and is angry of what has been portrayed
An Extremely Boring Man said:
OK, truce it is
Now go and harass some dipper
crappycraperson said:
I am not talking about 'nations' as in 'government'. If I wanted to say 'government' then I would have used the word 'government'.
When I used the word 'nation' I meant 'country'. Learn to comprehend a message.
Maybe YOU need to 'fecking grow up'?
Hassan said:
Being angry is one thing, speaking up about it is good.
But being threatening is quite another thing.
032Devil said:
But it wasn't a "country" who published this, it was a publication.
An Extremely Boring Man said:
I agree.
Kevrockcity said:
It's racist.
I wonder what the reaction would have been if the Danish cartoons were eg joking and criticising Moses and the Jewish way of life.
There would be world-wide outrage and condemnation.
032Devil said:
Doubt it
And there would be no threats about terrorism
An Extremely Boring Man said:
Agreed again.
Muslims really need to learn that they can't treat none-Muslims like they treat Muslims in their own land.
The WISE and the MATURE thing to do is for Muslim people to learn not to be wound up by idiotic things like this. After a while the whole thing would have blown over. Eventually, history would have shown the cartoons for what they are: shameful and racist of the generation it was produced in.
An Extremely Boring Man said:
That was my message in my original post when I used the words 'national publication'.
032Devil said:
You're confusing me now
032Devil said:
I agree.
No matter what one thinks of Islam, or any other faith for that matter, to ridicule it's central character in such a steroetypical manner, is stepping over the mark.
Fearless said:
Some think it is, some don't
Personally, I don't think so - whether iot is God, Allah, Jehova, Jesus, Mohammed or Eric Cantona - or whoever
An Extremely Boring Man said:
Typical reaction of someone who is an inhabitant of British society.
The ordinary person in Britian doesn't give a damn about "God, Allah, Jehova, Jesus, Mohammed..."
I don't know about about Eric Cantona. Let some Scousers slag off Eric after a game and tribal warface would result.
British society doesn't get wound up about 'Jesus' but does get wound up about 'road-rage' or other such things.
In the West we like to think we are much more sophisticated, intelligent and compassionate than 'these Middle Age Muslims'. We're not. It just that the things that make us mad are different.
032Devil said:
You are guilty of stereotyping here now.
For a start, I am not an inhabitant of the British society, not am I person in Britain.
You are wrong about ordinary people in Britain not giving a damn about religion and religious figures. Plenty do, including my own wife and her family, who are devoted Christians. However, they do not overract like when someone is poking fun of their God etc.
"British society" reacts in different ways to different things, because "British society" is a collection of individuals, who all react in different ways.
I am not saying people in the west are much more sophisticated, intelligent and compassionate than 'these Middle Age Muslims'. Again, you can't generalise like that. People are individuals, and you have all sorts everywhere. I can only speak for myself - nothing makes me mad enough to take to streets, encouraging terrorism etc.