Is Sir Alex preparing our number 10 for a future in midfield?

ArmchairCritic said:
I personally think SAF's holding Pogba back too much, he'd have thrived on the space Sunderland afforded Rooney.
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What do you think it would do for Pogba's development if he was thrown in and had a bad game and took the rap in the press for the following week?

It amazes me that today especially, 25 years in, people still think they know better than Ferguson.


Armchaircritic indeed.
 
Pexbo said:
What do you think it would do for Pogba's development if he was thrown in and had a bad game and took the rap in the press for the following week?

It amazes me that today especially, 25 years in, people still think they know better than Ferguson.


Armchaircritic indeed.
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I never said I knew better than SAF at all, I was just stating an opinion. You can't assume Pogba would have a bad game either, you can't hold someone back in the fear of them having a bad game. SAF will know his mental buildup much better than any of us and judge his time right, I just feel with the space they afforded to Rooney today Pogba would have been suited to the game today, at home with loads space is as good a chance Pogba is going get to express himself and show his abilities.
 
ArmchairCritic said:
I never said I knew better than SAF at all, I was just stating an opinion.
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You can't assume Pogba would have a bad game either, you can't hold someone back in the fear of them having a bad game.
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I didn't say he definately would, it's just a huge risk throwing a youngster into a team that isn't already settled itself.

SAF will know his mental buildup much better than any of us and judge his time right
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Exactly, so why do you think he's holding him back? He's not even had any sort of competetive game time in the Championship let alone being thrown into competetive Premier League games.


I just feel with the space they afforded to Rooney today Pogba would have been suited to the game today.
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Now you're talking crazy. I thought you meant instead of Rooney, but instead of Fletcher? Rather than use our only fit and experience midfielder you thought it a good idea to throw an inexperienced youngster into midfield next to a Striker?


at home with loads space is as good a chance Pogba is going get to express himself and show his abilities.
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That's right but not in any of the circumstances we're in right now. Our team is slowly repairing it's confidence and missing key players. Pogba is too good for the reserves but that has never been an indicator that a player is ready to be thrown into the first team. The difference in quality between the two levels is astronomical.
 
kouroux said:
It'd be a terrible waste of his abilities if that was the case.I think it's more about not having good players in CM than preparing Rooney to play in a position where his talent would be waste
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I think fans like you making these kind of remarks are plainly lacking vision and talent (in understanding how to make good use of players' abilities). For example, if Ole is a talented striker (amazing goal scoring either as a start or from the bench), which he is, people like yourself would have never considered him going on the wings as SAF had properly deployed him and he had skillfully and duly delivered on numerous occasions.
 
Pexbo said:
I didn't say he definately would, it's just a huge risk throwing a youngster into a team that isn't already settled itself.
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Sometimes you have to take a risk. Fletcher was fine today and the team in general was much more settled we just lacked any direction from the middle of the park in the first half.

Exactly, so why do you think he's holding him back? He's not even had any sort of competetive game time in the Championship let alone being thrown into competetive Premier League games.
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I can only base my opinion on what I see. Pogba to me is outgrowing reserves football, he's getting better with each game. Just because I don't work with Pogba doesn't mean I can't have an opinion on his development.

Now you're talking crazy. I thought you meant instead of Rooney, but instead of Fletcher? Rather than use our only fit and experience midfielder you thought it a good idea to throw an inexperienced youngster into midfield next to a Striker?
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No you're just making stuff up, not once have I intimated who Pogba would have replaced. All I have mentioned is how much space Rooney had and how Pogba would have thrived on such space, so if you're going to assume anything from that surely you'd assume I mean he'd be playing where Rooney was to have such freedom.

That's right but not in any of the circumstances we're in right now. Our team is slowly repairing it's confidence and missing key players. Pogba is too good for the reserves but that has never been an indicator that a player is ready to be thrown into the first team. The difference in quality between the two levels is astronomical.
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Well I don't think it's a tangible difference from reserve football to first team football, it's all on the player for me. He was up against Barkley from Everton on Thursday who has played quite a bit of first team football this year in comparison and looked good at times. Pogba however was much better. The musing that we could have played Pogba was based on two things, one that his presence would have at least meant we had a balanced midfield and two that he wouldn't have struggled as much as he may done judging by the space Rooney was afforded. Once our midfield is fully fit then you won't see me calling for Pogba ahead of the likes of Cleverley just yet.
 
I don't understand why everyone is so negative about Rooney playing in CM. The fact is, he's played two games there on the trot now and put in two MOM performances; what more can you ask?

I'm think Rooney has shown over the years that he has everything you need and more to play CM, and of SAF persists with him in that position then he'll only improve and those around him will improve also as they get used to the change.

That's the thing with Rooney, he's a constantly improving player, constantly up an upwards curve ever closer and closer to becoming the perfect player. This stint in midfield is just the latest example of the lad's genius; you get the feeling that if he was stuck in goal he'd be an absolute natural after a bit of practice.

So why the negativity? I think it's much easier, particularly so for SAF, to find a match-winning striker than it is to find a CM equivalent, so if Rooney can become the elusive world class CM that his performances suggest may be possible, then why not make the most of such an opportunity?

I've always thought that strikers are replaceable; not quite disposable, but much more easily interchanged and juggled - they're much more dependent on individual performance than that of the team as a whole. CM however is a very difficult role to find the perfect match for, as your CM has to compliment the abilities of every other player on the pitch; Rooney has the intelligence, vision, adaptability, aggression, composure, touch, speed, fitness, drive and workrate to make the perfect CM for all occasions, so why not utilise this extremely rare skill-set combination in the position that SAF has notoriously always found difficult to fill?

SAF can pluck world class strikers out of his arse, I don't think it's any great loss if Rooney is played in CM on the sacrifice of his position as striker.
 
I wasn't crazy about the idea of re-schooling Rooney, but he's looking better and better in this role and he effortlessly made the step up from Utelul Galeti to a Premiership tie.

He's got such vision and passing technique, as well as general awareness that it's almost wasting if you don't give it a go to have him take the reins in midfield. And towards the end today he even did a classic little shimmy away from the defenders to start a run that sort of turned back the years in terms of what we've seen from Rooney in later years.

The longe range switches, the deft little touches to ease pressure, the runs on the ball and his work-rate... If he learns quickly this might turn out to be a genius move :)

Not saying I'm sure it'll pay off in the end, mind... if it is indeed what is being attempted.
 
redevil2 said:
I think fans like you making these kind of remarks are plainly lacking vision and talent (in understanding how to make good use of players' abilities). For example, if Ole is a talented striker (amazing goal scoring either as a start or from the bench), which he is, people like yourself would have never considered him going on the wings as SAF had properly deployed him and he had skillfully and duly delivered on numerous occasions.
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wtf :lol:
Don't assume what I would think about a situation based on a comment on one situation.
It's clear to me and to many others obviously that Rooney would be wasted as a CM not necessarily because he'd be bad at it but mainly because he's just so much better when playing behind the main striker.He's far too good when playing in an advanced role.His game is about explosiveness and creativity, his best football has come from playing in the whole.
I used to think that up top on his own was his best position (specially after the season where he scored so many goals) but I realized that his best position is a position with the most freedom.
 
ciderman9000000 said:
I don't understand why everyone is so negative about Rooney playing in CM. The fact is, he's played two games there on the trot now and put in two MOM performances; what more can you ask?

I'm think Rooney has shown over the years that he has everything you need and more to play CM, and of SAF persists with him in that position then he'll only improve and those around him will improve also as they get used to the change.

That's the thing with Rooney, he's a constantly improving player, constantly up an upwards curve ever closer and closer to becoming the perfect player. This stint in midfield is just the latest example of the lad's genius; you get the feeling that if he was stuck in goal he'd be an absolute natural after a bit of practice.

So why the negativity? I think it's much easier, particularly so for SAF, to find a match-winning striker than it is to find a CM equivalent, so if Rooney can become the elusive world class CM that his performances suggest may be possible, then why not make the most of such an opportunity?

I've always thought that strikers are replaceable; not quite disposable, but much more easily interchanged and juggled - they're much more dependent on individual performance than that of the team as a whole. CM however is a very difficult role to find the perfect match for, as your CM has to compliment the abilities of every other player on the pitch; Rooney has the intelligence, vision, adaptability, aggression, composure, touch, speed, fitness, drive and workrate to make the perfect CM for all occasions, so why not utilise this extremely rare skill-set combination in the position that SAF has notoriously always found difficult to fill?

SAF can pluck world class strikers out of his arse, I don't think it's any great loss if Rooney is played in CM on the sacrifice of his position as striker.
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I don't think it's negativity but I think it's more of a case of people preferring him to play in the role he plays best, just behind Chicharito. That role in itself can have a fair amount of defensive duties and make us stronger in the middle, Rooney's a good midfielder but an even better attacking midfielder. I don't think it's a coincidence that Hernandez hasn't really got in behind as much in the last 2 games since Rooney's dropped deeper. Our frontline is good without Rooney but it's a much better oiled machine when he's in it.
 
I'm firmly in the "this is a good idea" camp. He's got the passing range, the (football) brain and the work rate to play at cm. Frankly anything that gets Rooney on the ball as often as possible is going to be a positive.
 
evra said:
I'm firmly in the "this is a good idea" camp. He's got the passing range, the (football) brain and the work rate to play at cm. Frankly anything that gets Rooney on the ball as often as possible is going to be a positive.
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I'm firmly in the "this is a terrible idea" camp, I think we have players as good as Rooney in CM but non are as good as him in his real position. If it turns out to be a success than we'd be even more desperate for a player to fill his old role than we are now for a CM.

Let's see Carrick & Cleverley after the break please, and some more of that Anderson/Clev partnership wouldn't go amiss either. Rooney back in the hole behind Hernandez!

Imo we'd have won today's game by more had Carrick played in Rooney's position and Rooney in Welbeck's, and that's what's most important here.
 
Didn't Scholes begin playing as a midfielder for us when he was about 24 and Keane had some injury problems

Rooney has the quality to be a top attacking midfielder and maybe this move has even come a little late as he should have been moved to a midfielder role a couple of years ago to learn some positional discipline.
 
Rooney is good enough to win games [basically] on his own from the front, so I don't think it's the permanent solution. But if it's a step on the road to Rooney playing as a false 9 and Chicharito and Welbeck playing as inverted wingers, then I'm all for it.
 
Sharky7 said:
Imo we'd have won today's game by more had Carrick played in Rooney's position and Rooney in Welbeck's, and that's what's most important here.
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There is winning football games and then there is winning championships - the likes of Maradona, Platini or Zidane may have also done a better job than their support strikers in their positions too and scored a lot more goals.

If anyone thinks we can build a truly world class side with Carrick/Fletcher in midfield, they need to have the heads examined.

If a team were to have just one truly great player, rather have an attacking midfielder than a striker.
 
Instant Karma said:
There is winning football games and then there is winning championships - the likes of Maradona, Platini or Zidane may have also done a better job than their support strikers in their positions too and scored a lot more goals.

If anyone thinks we can build a truly world class side with Carrick/Fletcher in midfield, they need to have the heads examined.
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Maradona and Zidane didn't play CM like Rooney did today, and if you think they did, "you need to have your head examined".

Although I do agree with your second statement.
 
Playing Rooney in central mid is not a testament to Fergies prowess at management, it is the paucity of options in the centre that forces his hand. We are dire in the middle and the boss is forced to play our best attacker in that position because he's better playing out of position in the middle than our midfield specialists, which tells us everything we need to know about the current state of our midfield players.

But everyone with a brain has known this for ages.
 
Rooney has to be the most adaptable player on earth.

Not only is he adaptable but he is talented and hard-working.

Ya I know he was an ass last year and made the team and Fergie look stupid but an immensely talented player that consistently performers in numerous positions without complaining is really amazing.
 
kouroux said:
wtf :lol:
Don't assume what I would think about a situation based on a comment on one situation.
It's clear to me and to many others obviously that Rooney would be wasted as a CM not necessarily because he'd be bad at it but mainly because he's just so much better when playing behind the main striker.He's far too good when playing in an advanced role.His game is about explosiveness and creativity, his best football has come from playing in the whole.
I used to think that up top on his own was his best position (specially after the season where he scored so many goals) but I realized that his best position is a position with the most freedom.
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Luckily for all of us, you're just a football fan sitting on the armchair behind the computer critiquing the best manager in the world's decision and playing expert on an Internet forum. Thank god!
 
redevil2 said:
Luckily for all of us, you're just a football fan sitting on the armchair behind the computer critiquing the best manager in the world's decision and playing expert on an Internet forum. Thank god!
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Do feck off with your holier than thou attitude.
By your dumb logic, any Man United forums should be locked because what's the point of discussing SAF's decisions ? You're an idiot and I sincerely mean it
 
Rooney would be wasted at CM if he plays as deep as he was today. He'l still do well, he is just too complete a footballer not to, but wasted still.

Imo, a midfield of carrick and cleverley with carrick playing deep and rooney just ahead of them would be fantastic. that'd be brilliantly balanced in all respects. Good passers of the ball, lots of creativity and all 3 that dont mind busting the gut and helping out indefence. That'd be my 1st choice midfield 3 atm.
 
We need him up top soon because we are finding it a little hard to score goals. We have only scored 7 in the last 6 league games.
 
2Bullish said:
Playing Rooney in central mid is not a testament to Fergies prowess at management, it is the paucity of options in the centre that forces his hand. We are dire in the middle and the boss is forced to play our best attacker in that position because he's better playing out of position in the middle than our midfield specialists, which tells us everything we need to know about the current state of our midfield players.

But everyone with a brain has known this for ages.
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Anderson, Giggs and Cleverley injured. Carrick not fully fit.. who else we have on the bench?
 
Instant Karma said:
Didn't Scholes begin playing as a midfielder for us when he was about 24 and Keane had some injury problems

Rooney has the quality to be a top attacking midfielder and maybe this move has even come a little late as he should have been moved to a midfielder role a couple of years ago to learn some positional discipline.
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Truth be told for the past 2 season's Rooney's positional discipline has been excellent.
 
Rooney can play as a central midfielder but he's wasted there. Unlike Scholes whose physical frame was too small to lead United's line, Rooney can do that magnificently and he had proved that in countless occasions. No one would dare moving players like Van Basten or Pele in CM. Same line of thought should be used at United with Rooney.

If United wants to solve their CM problems and they feel that they don't have the in house talent to do that, then they should sign a quality midfielder. Im sick of seeing defenders (Jones), wingers (Park and Giggs) and strikers (Rooney) covering that role because our current CM are too inconsistent to do the job well week in week out.
 
Wan said:
Anderson, Giggs and Cleverley injured. Carrick not fully fit.. who else we have on the bench?
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Anderson has been inconsistent for years, same as Carrick and Fletch. Giggs is growing old and Cleverley is our best bet at the moment. What many fear is that if Rooney does better in CM then all of them (not a difficult task considering Roon's talent and the consistency shown by these players in the past years) then he's there to stay. Its a waste since Rooney is one of the finest strikers around
 
devilish said:
Rooney can play as a central midfielder but he's wasted there. Unlike Scholes whose physical frame was too small to lead United's line, Rooney can do that magnificently and he had proved that in countless occasions. No one would dare moving players like Van Basten or Pele in CM. Same line of thought should be used at United with Rooney.

If United wants to solve their CM problems and they feel that they don't have the in house talent to do that, then they should sign a quality midfielder. Im sick of seeing defenders (Jones), wingers (Park and Giggs) and strikers (Rooney) covering that role because our current CM are too inconsistent to do the job well week in week out.
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This is it, for me. You could say the same for Messi now, or you could apply it to playing Ronaldo as a central striker - you don't move them about just because they can, you move them because it's beneficial. Like Messi moving into that central position. And long-term I don't think this is. Just because Rooney can play there, and of course he can, doesn't mean that we should stick him there for the rest of his career. If we're going to do this a lot during the season then we did miss out on Sneijder really, given he doesn't really offer anything less than Rooney in the position in terms of suitability or defensive qualities. I hope we don't.

Although Giggs, Jones and likely Park all would have played there regardless seeing as they've all played there very effectively in the past, it may well be Giggs' and Park's first choice position now.

As for Rooney having more influence there, I don't agree at all. The advanced playmaker, the #10, the player in the hole, whatever you want to call it generally has the most influence on the game...I reckon. It's also where many of the best players to play the game have played, for good reason too. He can still control the play and do the damage, and he doesn't have to spend as much time focussing on his defensive duties or just simply moving the ball about, we want him to be threading through those final passes not picking the ball up off the centre backs. That doesn't mean he can't play those 'killer' passes from centre mid, but even Scholesy for all his passing brilliance was lucky to do that a couple of times again from that deep position. Nor does it mean that he'll constantly be playing those passes, but you want him in the areas where he can do the most danger, and that's in behind the opposition midfield not in front of it, IMO. Rooney for the best part of a year hasn't been played as a striker, he's been played in the same position that Silva has for City for example - this type of player's far from dispensable.

There's no need to have Rooney there now we've got Carrick and Cleverley back so I'd be shocked to see him there again while we have enough fit midfielders.
 
Yeah, I don't expect it to be anything other than stopgap. His ability around the box, both as a creator and a goalscorer, is too good for us to regularly keep him in a less advanced role. While I can accept changing his potision for emergency circumstances with something like four midfielders out, it shouldn't be anything other than that. We know Rooney's best position, playing him there is beneficial for the team. Should be quite simple.
 
ciderman9000000 said:
I don't understand why everyone is so negative about Rooney playing in CM. The fact is, he's played two games there on the trot now and put in two MOM performances; what more can you ask?

I'm think Rooney has shown over the years that he has everything you need and more to play CM, and of SAF persists with him in that position then he'll only improve and those around him will improve also as they get used to the change.

That's the thing with Rooney, he's a constantly improving player, constantly up an upwards curve ever closer and closer to becoming the perfect player. This stint in midfield is just the latest example of the lad's genius; you get the feeling that if he was stuck in goal he'd be an absolute natural after a bit of practice.

So why the negativity? I think it's much easier, particularly so for SAF, to find a match-winning striker than it is to find a CM equivalent, so if Rooney can become the elusive world class CM that his performances suggest may be possible, then why not make the most of such an opportunity?

I've always thought that strikers are replaceable; not quite disposable, but much more easily interchanged and juggled - they're much more dependent on individual performance than that of the team as a whole. CM however is a very difficult role to find the perfect match for, as your CM has to compliment the abilities of every other player on the pitch; Rooney has the intelligence, vision, adaptability, aggression, composure, touch, speed, fitness, drive and workrate to make the perfect CM for all occasions, so why not utilise this extremely rare skill-set combination in the position that SAF has notoriously always found difficult to fill?

SAF can pluck world class strikers out of his arse, I don't think it's any great loss if Rooney is played in CM on the sacrifice of his position as striker.
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I agree with Cider.
 
It has been a temporary solution; one that hasn't punished us too much. When we have Cleverley and Carrick back he'll be moved into a more advanced role again.

Or so I hope...
 
I'm excited that he could become our midfield talisman. Setting up and scoring goals, dictating play and taking the free kicks as he's better than Nani. Mabey captain to boot, him with Cleverly or ahead of Carrick and Cleverly would be great.
 
- Plays too deep
- Loses the ball too easily
- Plays too many bad Hollywood passes

The latter two will go largely unnoticed against teams like Sunderland, but we'll be punished against better teams. He's a forward and an excellent footballer who's still very good in the middle of the pitch, but he doesn't have the right mindset or positioning for a midfielder yet.
 
RK said:
- Plays too deep
- Loses the ball too easily
- Plays too many bad Hollywood passes

The latter two will go largely unnoticed against teams like Sunderland, but we'll be punished against better teams. He's a forward and an excellent footballer who's still very good in the middle of the pitch, but he doesn't have the right mindset or positioning for a midfielder yet.
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Those things will come though surely. He's more than just a goalscorer, he's a complete player and suits the AM role more.
 
giggs-beckham said:
Those things will come though surely. He's more than just a goalscorer, he's a complete player and suits the AM role more.
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I don't think so myself, he lacked the awareness too many times and just ran into opposition players. There were a few times where he just smashed the ball against their player about 4 yards away too. He'd get destroyed by a good midfield.

The thing is, if we played him there then we'd have to go out and buy a top class striker to replac him, but there'd be better midfielders out there than him. It just wouldn't make sense.
 
pocco said:
I don't think so myself, he lacked the awareness too many times and just ran into opposition players. There were a few times where he just smashed the ball against their player about 4 yards away too. He'd get destroyed by a good midfield.

The thing is, if we played him there then we'd have to go out and buy a top class striker to replac him, but there'd be better midfielders out there than him. It just wouldn't make sense.
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He made a few mistakes sure but he's new to the role and in time he along with Cleverly could distroy most midfields.
 
giggs-beckham said:
Chicharito, Berbatov, Welbeck, Owen and Macheda is hardly scraping the barrel is it?
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Berbatov would have to start all the big games and that is a huge problem in itself. Welbeck and Hernandez aren't ready to lead the line yet, as they would otherwise have to.

Rooney upfront > Berbatov
A decent mdfielder > Rooney in midfield.

We'd be better off spending £10-15 million on a Tiote or someone like that.
 
pocco said:
Berbatov would have to start all the big games and that is a huge problem in itself. Welbeck and Hernandez aren't ready to lead the line yet, as they would otherwise have to.

Rooney upfront > Berbatov
A decent mdfielder > Rooney in midfield.

We'd be better off spending £10-15 million on a Tiote or someone like that.
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Exactly, this is it in a nutshell.

We can go out and buy MANY better CM than Rooney.

We can't buy any better forward.

Simples really.
 
Rooney would be great in midfield in the near future. It's not his best position as of today, but if that solves our current midfield problems, who cares about what his best position actually is.
We've got plenty of options up front. Someone had to play "out" of position. He's not the first one and won't be the last. It might actually prove to be a genius move by the gaffer
 
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