Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

Mike Smalling said:
Yeah, because Germany in particular are terrified of any criticism of Israel being heard. Did you read the speech he wasn’t allowed to give?
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I saw it on YouTube weeks ago.

A seditious and distinctively antisemitic apology of Hamas, worthy of a ban by German standards.
 
I think its worth revisiting that missile strike on the hospital last year. After all that has happened since then, does anyone on here now actually believe that it was a misfired Hamas rocket?
 
Fergies Gum said:
I think its worth revisiting that missile strike on the hospital last year. After all that has happened since then, does anyone on here now actually believe that it was a misfired Hamas rocket?
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That was the conclusion from many organizations, though the conclusion was not unanimous.
 
e.cantona said:
I said this.

I stand by every word in that. People in here trusting literal monsters, Hamas, is beyond me. They didn't trust the numbers given by one Hamas branch based on lack of id, so they changed it to a different Hamas branch. Why? Because there are no other sources.
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Yes, you said that. You also said a bunch of other things, which I addressed. Do you need me to quote the things you said, have you forgot? You did say things about the estimates, you did say things about what you think the reasons for them are. It makes no sense to put up a performance.

You are not beating the troll allegations when you act like this. I know you probably don't care, because this is how you always act, but sometimes you write things that makes it seem like you want to come across as someone who is not a joke. It's extremely weird behaviour, I don't get why you don't choose one or the other.
 
Pintu said:
You are the only one confused… Israeli officials have told us countless times that their goal was and still is to starve and kill civilians and they’ve shown that as well.

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How they use this kind of dehumanizing language while proclaiming themselves the most humane army in the world is mind-boggling. The irony is off the charts.
 
Super Hans said:
Surprised there is barely any chat here about the Guardian article today. It is quite long but completely insane.
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It's absolutely not surprising for anyone who followed the conflict prior to 10/7.

You also noted how the US administration gave a helping hand (albeit for their own motives) and you can imagine how much pressure Israel and the US are putting on Karim Khan at the moment.

There's a reason why Israel never recognized the ICC and the ICJ. The amount of (well documented) crimes it commited in Gaza and the West Bank are enough to send any PM to prison for a few decades if not for life. This goes for a good number of ministers, IDF commanders, soldiers as well as illegal settlers.

It is a rogue state. Always was. It considers itself above the law, acts like a mafia and has practiced state terrorism for decades. All of it enabled, supported and covered by the US and the EU.
 
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Fergies Gum said:
I think its worth revisiting that missile strike on the hospital last year. After all that has happened since then, does anyone on here now actually believe that it was a misfired Hamas rocket?
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That one is genuinely contentious.

The farce about a few AK-47s placed found behind a scanner as proof of existence of a Khamas Command center beneath the hospital though...
 
Fergies Gum said:
I think its worth revisiting that missile strike on the hospital last year. After all that has happened since then, does anyone on here now actually believe that it was a misfired Hamas rocket?
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Berbatrick summarized it well a few pages ago:

berbatrick said:
When the 1st hospital attack happened, it led to weeks of discourse: "Palestinians can't shoot straight", death toll is actually much lower, accidentally hit fuel storage, etc. When they first raided a hospital, there was a lot of discourse: MRI machine armoury, tunnels underneath, etc. When they first mowed down people surrounding an aid truck, there was tons of dicsourse: Hamas did it, these were terrorists, etc.

Since then they have attacked almost every hospital using both air and ground forces, have massacred people lining up for aid multiple times, and there has been no discourse and no need for a cover story since it becomes an accepted part of this war.
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I assume Israel did it. But hey maybe it was a misfired Hamas rocket, who knows. What I do know is that 1) many insisted that it had to be an accident because Israel would never do something like that, and 2) Israel went and did something like that many times over.
 
Sigh someone here needs to do math. You take out the women and children killed, and you’re left with the exact number of “Hamas” operatives Israel claims to have killed
 
e.cantona said:
I mean...what else do you want to know about me? PM me, we'll have a lengthy conversation


I suspect you know literally feck all about much
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Think this is probably the first time I've ever interacted with you in any way so no more than I already know is more than sufficient.

Just find it funny that someone who is pretending to engage in good faith, won't watch a 3 minute video about the topic they're discussing.

This of course assumes you're engaging in good faith yourself.....
 
africanspur said:
Think this is probably the first time I've ever interacted with you in any way so no more than I already know is more than sufficient.

Just find it funny that someone who is pretending to engage in good faith, won't watch a 3 minute video about the topic they're discussing.

This of course assumes you're engaging in good faith yourself.....
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Yeah, you assume too much, unfortunately
 
Atheist said:
Does the Biden Administration have any leg to stand on when it preaches to other countries about human rights in various avenues when it continues to support these unrelenting attacks by Israel on civilians?
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It does not, although that has been the case with regard to the United States for decades anyways.
 
e.cantona said:
How so many people can be confused on this is beyond me. Hamas targets civilians of Israel. They want to kill civilians. Woman and children. That is their goal. They use their own population, women and children, as human shields. They want their own population to get killed, so it reflects badly on Israel. This is their strategy. The numbers Hamas have provided may be correct or even too low, but UN recently revised it's estimate of women and children killed by about half, based on Hamas not being a reliable source. It is impossible to know what is the correct numbers. People taking Hamas' word regarding this as fact, is ludicrous. One shows oneself to be willing to belive just about anything, on very little evidence.
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The irony would be hilarious if it weren't so utterly evil.
 
That_Bloke said:
There's a reason why Israel never recognized the ICC and the ICJ.
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Israel is by default of being member of the UN is signatory to the ICJ. So they recognise it.

Israel is not signatory to the ICC, but still the ICC warrants are binding to the countries signatory to it, meaning these countries are obliged to arrest Israelis if they land on their soil.
 
Adisa said:
The US have chosen to die on this hill.
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It is a sign of how much influence they have lost. They know that even if they were to follow through, Israel would not listen to them now. They are finding excuses to change their definitions so that they can still appear to have some level of control and for there to be some doubts as to whether they are ignored by or are ignoring Israel.

The last thing they want is to say "stop" and for Israel to go "Nah, thanks - cut your funding, we don't care". The region would explode. Republicans would take advantage of it and block everything. The president would appear weak domestically and internationally. The big question would be what Iran, Russia and China would do about it. Israel is playing with fire, and the US is too weak and fractured to do anything about it.
 
Beachryan said:
There are very serious, well-intentioned people in the Biden administration trying to improve the lives of Gazans. There are people that have lived in that part of the world since October 8th whose only role is to try and limit the suffering.
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Adisa said:
The US have chosen to die on this hill.
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This whole fiasco has just cemented that the West (with the US as the leader) aren't really the good guys of the world. A lot of people like to believe that we have some moral superiority over China and Russia, but when we actively support what's happening in Gaza, I don't really see how we can say that.
 
Giggsyking said:
Israel is by default of being member of the UN is signatory to the ICJ. So they recognise it.

Israel is not signatory to the ICC, but still the ICC warrants are binding to the countries signatory to it, meaning these countries are obliged to arrest Israelis if they land on their soil.
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Ah, I stand corrected.
 
NotThatSoph said:
Yes, you said that. You also said a bunch of other things, which I addressed. Do you need me to quote the things you said, have you forgot? You did say things about the estimates, you did say things about what you think the reasons for them are. It makes no sense to put up a performance.

You are not beating the troll allegations when you act like this. I know you probably don't care, because this is how you always act, but sometimes you write things that makes it seem like you want to come across as someone who is not a joke. It's extremely weird behaviour, I don't get why you don't choose one or the other.
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Yes, please quote what I said

africanspur said:
Think this is probably the first time I've ever interacted with you in any way so no more than I already know is more than sufficient.

Just find it funny that someone who is pretending to engage in good faith, won't watch a 3 minute video about the topic they're discussing.

This of course assumes you're engaging in good faith yourself.....
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Well, I'm not gonna. For obvious reasons. Tell me what it's about

Bebe said:
The irony would be hilarious if it weren't so utterly evil.
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Explain
 
Mike Smalling said:
This whole fiasco has just cemented that the West (with the US as the leader) aren't really the good guys of the world. A lot of people like to believe that we have some moral superiority over China and Russia, but when we actively support what's happening in Gaza, I don't really see how we can say that.
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They never were and never had it. Anyone believing this fairy tale either drank too much kool-aid or is badly informed.

The West, especially the US, has a long history of siding with the worst dictators, overthrowing democratically elected governments, and invading countries that don't play ball and more importantly, can't defend themselves. It still does it to this day. The international rules only apply when it suits them, and the West in many ways is just like, if not worse than China and Russia.

Gaza is just another example of its duplicity. It might've opened some eyes in western countries, but the rest of the world has always seen the West essentially for what it is, a two-faced bully.
 
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e.cantona said:
How so many people can be confused on this is beyond me. Hamas targets civilians of Israel. They want to kill civilians. Woman and children. That is their goal. They use their own population, women and children, as human shields. They want their own population to get killed, so it reflects badly on Israel. This is their strategy. The numbers Hamas have provided may be correct or even too low, but UN recently revised it's estimate of women and children killed by about half, based on Hamas not being a reliable source. It is impossible to know what is the correct numbers. People taking Hamas' word regarding this as fact, is ludicrous. One shows oneself to be willing to belive just about anything, on very little evidence.
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I just sat and watched an interview with a medical nurse that was in Gaza as a volunteer that just recently returned. I will take her word for what she has seen and experienced. Trust me she had some grim stories about what Israel are doing there and how they even targetted her and her colleagues. This is something that has been repeated by many aid workers and even the Secretery General of Doctors Without Borders who testified how he feared Israeli retaliation for speaking the truth in court.

Israel is supposed to be a democracy that abides by international law. Hamas are terrorists. Interestingly, I keep seeing this comparison being made between the two by the people defending this genocide conducted by Israel. And you are right, Israel can only be compared to a terrorist organisation, because they are terrorists themselves. Israel, like Hamas intentionally target civilians and organisations, only difference is that they have the weapons to do it on a mass scale and level cities doing it.

But as long as they have the US having their backs little will change but now the world atleast gets to see what monsters the Israeli truly are and the hypocrisy of the US and it's lap dogs.
 
Laurencio said:
It is a sign of how much influence they have lost. They know that even if they were to follow through, Israel would not listen to them now. They are finding excuses to change their definitions so that they can still appear to have some level of control and for there to be some doubts as to whether they are ignored by or are ignoring Israel.

The last thing they want is to say "stop" and for Israel to go "Nah, thanks - cut your funding, we don't care". The region would explode. Republicans would take advantage of it and block everything. The president would appear weak domestically and internationally. The big question would be what Iran, Russia and China would do about it. Israel is playing with fire, and the US is too weak and fractured to do anything about it.
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The US is not weak. They just dont give a feck about some middle easter Palestinian

You really think there's nothing the US cant do? Sanctions, embargo, blocking arms sale, to the very least a stern talking to Bibi to tone it down. Not even theatrics to at least pretend.

I dont know what the Israel has on the US politicians but they got the by their balls. I hope it's some damning pee video or worse, at this rate they're aiding genocide just for a few chump "campaign donation", that's how much the whole Palestinians worth. Just election fund
 
That_Bloke said:
They never were and never had it. Anyone believing this fairy tale either drank too much kool-aid or is badly informed.

The West, especially the US, has a long history of siding with the worst dictators, overthrowing democratically elected governments and invading countries, all of them being the ones that can't defend themselves. It still does it to this day. The international rules only apply when it suits them, and in many ways it as much as if not worse than China and Russia.

Gaza is just another example of its duplicity. It might've opened some eyes in the West, but the rest of the world has always seen the West essentially for what it is, a two-faced bully.
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I honestly think the majority of people in Western countries believe it. Most people aren't engaged enough to debate a topic like this online - broadly they don't care. They've grown up on Western media diets and also simply want to believe we are better. I think this might be the first big "Are we the baddies?" moment for the West in a long time. Possibly since it became publicly accepted that the Iraq war a complete scam.
 
Mike Smalling said:
I honestly think the majority of people in Western countries believe it. Most people aren't engaged enough to debate a topic like this online - broadly they don't care. They've grown up on Western media diets and also simply want to believe we are better. I think this might be the first big "Are we the baddies?" moment for the West in a long time. Possibly since it became publicly accepted that the Iraq war a complete scam.
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I think in europe most will rationalize it as "well, it's america, they're in charge. if we were in charge it would be different". Our migrant policy shows we probably would be no different.
 
maniak said:
I think in europe most will rationalize it as "well, it's america, they're in charge. if we were in charge it would be different". Our migrant policy shows we probably would be no different.
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At least European elected leaders are a lot more diverse in thought, when it comes to Israel/Palestine. We have both governments that basically take the US line and would probably enact the same policies, but we also do have politicians in power that are willing to stand up and speak out. That does provide a little bit of hope. One big difference between the US and Europe on this topic seems to be that Europe doesn't have anywhere near as much of the religious fundamentalism that leads to dogmatic support of Israel.
 
The U.S. has rarely been the good guy but there's such a thing as plausible deniability.

With some things, it's like your wife is looking through the laundry and she notices there's some red lipstick on the collar of one of your shirts. The lipstick doesn't look like any of the ones she owns. Suspicious.

This Israel/Gaza war is more like your wife is looking through the laundry and finds a tshirt with a big screenprint of you pounding her mother from behind and a caption that says "BEST NIGHT EVER."
 
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