Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)

Fingeredmouse said:
Yes indeed. A party of government who are also meant to be of the left.

Apparently it is ok to have right wing parties of govt, but not of the left?
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Party of government = able to win elections = able to attract people that have voted Tory. Which you forbade in your previous post.
 
Red Dreams said:
indeed. what is the point of winning a GE and doing feck all for ordinary people?

I see Labour governing in a coalition which would be far better.
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Fingeredmouse said:
Yes indeed. A party of government who are also meant to be of the left.

Apparently it is ok to have right wing parties of govt, but not of the left?
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They are 'of the left' ffs...

Do you think the last Labour government did nothing for ordinary people? Are you for or against the minimum wage, the living wage?

Do you think Corbyn's Labour Party can get elected?

Do you think it's worth the risk of putting a 'hard' left candidate forward (JC) and seeing if the public will take to that form of argument, or do you think that it's too big a risk to take, considering the likely loss of the North of England to UKIP?
 
ThierryHenry said:
They are 'of the left' ffs...

Do you think the last Labour government did nothing for ordinary people? Are you for or against the minimum wage, the living wage?

Do you think Corbyn's Labour Party can get elected?

Do you think it's worth the risk of putting a 'hard' left candidate forward (JC) and seeing if the public will take to that form of argument, or do you think that it's too big a risk to take, considering the likely loss of the North of England to UKIP?
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by going to the center we have lost core Labour. Labour can only govern now in a coalition. What is the point of appealing to Tory voters when we have to betray Labour values?
 
ThierryHenry said:
What does core Labour mean to you?
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not Tory light for sure.

I want a govrnment that is willing to invest in people whose jobs have left the country so they can be retrained. Leave the Tories to talk about austerity.

We are where we are after Brexit. This is the time to pull together and work with parties like SNP that are not coming back. Keep the Tories out. Not become them.
 
Red Dreams said:
indeed. what is the point of winning a GE and doing feck all for ordinary people?

I see Labour governing in a coalition which would be far better.
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Same line of reasoning was used by the Lib Dems, where did it get them.. where did it get us? parties of protest can have just as much influence out of power than as a bit party in a coalition. I am sure some of Osbornes plans on tax credits were pulled back because there was public outrage led by the Labour Party under Corbyn.
 
Raees said:
Same line of reasoning was used by the Lib Dems, where did it get them.. where did it get us? parties of protest can have just as much influence out of power than as a bit party in a coalition. I am sure some of Osbornes plans on tax credits were pulled back because there was public outrage led by the Labour Party under Corbyn.
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Tax credit cuts were stopped mainly by the Labour lords team, who have basically declared independence from Corbyn. Ditto attempts by the Tories to weaken the unions.
 
Want to see who the Tory lite bunch here are going to blame if we do get a Blairite leader that ends up getting annihilated at a GE.

What happens then? Do we just keep shifting to the right until we trick Conservative voters into thinking we're the Tory party?
 
The country is very splintered. The Brexit vote proved that. The pie is getting smaller. The hate parties will grow. The key is to put forward policies that appeal to the ordinary voter.

Corbyn does not inspire confidence because of the way he carries himself. I prefer to look at substance.

Having said that I am aware that a GE is about image too.

But to move center/right is not the solution.
 
Ubik said:
Tax credit cuts were stopped mainly by the Labour lords team, who have basically declared independence from Corbyn. Ditto attempts by the Tories to weaken the unions.
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Would you say that they would have diverged from Corbyn's views on that issue regardless?
 
Raees said:
Would you say that they would have diverged from Corbyn's views on that issue regardless?
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Not sure what you mean. Point is that they were able to stop it because they had the parliamentary numbers in the Lords chamber to do so - it wasn't a party of protest forcing the government to change, it was parliamentary democracy stopping them.
 
Kaos said:
Want to see who the Tory lite bunch here are going to blame if we do get a Blairite leader that ends up getting annihilated at a GE.

What happens then? Do we just keep shifting to the right until we trick Conservative voters into thinking we're the Tory party?
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It'll just be the leaders fault and they'll go again.

There's no moving away from the fact that it's very hard to get back into power. It's not just about being inoffensive to the masses, you need to offer something different. Until the tories tank the economy (could be soon) it'll take a wildcard like Corbyn to get in.

Now if Leadsom takes over the tories then any puppet will do but in no world will Eagle beat May.
 
Ubik said:
Not sure what you mean. Point is that they were able to stop it because they had the parliamentary numbers in the Lords chamber to do so - it wasn't a party of protest forcing the government to change, it was parliamentary democracy stopping them.
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I get that based on your explanation of what actually happened. I mean hypothetically, a large party of protest i.e. Labour which was united (not splintered like the current Labour Party) could wield alot of influence on decision-making by the party in power.
 
Angela Eagle seems to have taken the Liz Kendall mantle. Except Angela as no problems with policy but more with Jeremy. And she refused to say that Jeremy should automatically be on the ballot.Think some dirty tricks may be in play here.
 
So ironically then the centrists in the Labour party are going to be responsible for the split in the party as they seek to block Corbyn's name from the leadership ballot?

For a coup carried out in the name of unity and competence, Eagle has been awfully incompetent and divisive.
 
Drifter said:
Angela Eagle seems to have taken the Liz Kendall mantle. Except Angela as no problems with policy but more with Jeremy. And she refused to say that Jeremy should automatically be on the ballot.Think some dirty tricks may be in play here.
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They are going to see if it is legally required for Corbyn to need the backing of 51 MPs to be on the ballot.
 
At least from this Corbyn doesn't need any backing from MPs



Although by the sounds of it they are going to try to keep Corbyn off(Which if it happens would spilt the party)
 
Will trust the party's lawyers over a Green party member journalist.
 



(Obviously he means June 27th there)

Corbyn said he had no idea when Smith got that idea from. One is lying.
 
NinjaFletch said:
So ironically then the centrists in the Labour party are going to be responsible for the split in the party as they seek to block Corbyn's name from the leadership ballot?

For a coup carried out in the name of unity and competence, Eagle has been awfully incompetent and divisive.
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If they block his name from the ballot I'm done and I know a good few members (who joined well before Corbyn) who are of the same opinion.

How anyone could be okay with it I beyond me. Pathetic behaviour
 
Ubik said:
I knew it was them, even when it was the bears I knew it was them.
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Angela Eagles voting record



The people who are backing her



Smores said:
If they block his name from the ballot I'm done and I know a good few members (who joined well before Corbyn) who are of the same opinion.

How anyone could be okay with it I beyond me. Pathetic behaviour
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Same here.
 
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Sweet Square said:
Angela Eagles voting record



The people who are backing her




Same here.
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Indeed, she voted with the rest of the party on most issues.

Of course, if Corbyn resigned we could have a proper leadership contest with multiple candidates standing.
 
You get the feeling Eagles is being thrown under a bus by someone, or at best commuting a calculated professional foul - Taking out her man and bearing the public brunt, allowing someone else to step in when the dust has settled. The man after the man after Fergie, etc.

She can't possibly believe she'd win a GE. If she does, she's as simple as her haircut.
 
Ubik said:
Indeed, she voted with the rest of the party on most issues.

Of course, if Corbyn resigned we could have a proper leadership contest with multiple candidates standing.
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Why aren't said candidates declaring their interest now?
 
Ubik said:
Indeed, she voted with the rest of the party on most issues.

Of course, if Corbyn resigned we could have a proper leadership contest with multiple candidates standing.
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If Corbyn is ousted and the hard left split from a position of opposition do you think that the Unions will abandon ship as well, their standing must be at its lowest ebb in history anyway, would they risk complete insignificance or be more pragmatic?
 
Mockney said:
You get the feeling Eagles is being thrown under a bus by someone, or at best commuting a calculated professional foul - Taking out her man and bearing the public brunt, allowing someone else to step in when the dust has settled. The man after the man after Fergie, etc.

She can't possibly believe she'd win a GE. If she does, she's as simple as her haircut.
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You might be overestimating the current Labour party. I think it's possible that they're just this incompetent.
 
Cheesy said:
Why aren't said candidates declaring their interest now?
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Because it's widely agreed that if Corbyn's on the ballot, there needs to be only a single challenger, otherwise the chances of beating him dwindle.
Classical Mechanic said:
If Corbyn is ousted and the hard left split from a position of opposition do you think that the Unions will abandon ship as well, their standing must be at its lowest ebb in history anyway, would they risk complete insignificance or be more pragmatic?
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Most unions recognise that the party has to be in power in order to help their members. If the hard left split away, hard to imagine the unions following. Not sure what would happen if Corbyn wins and a new SDP is formed.
 
Is it all the unions still backing Corbyn, or just McCluskey seemingly speaking on behalf of a huge number of different groups? It annoys me how he seems to be the sole union voice the news has been airing during this story.
 
So in Eagle's latest interview she refused to state any of Corbyn's policies she disagrees with and said this was just about unifying the party. Oh and she won't agree to the motion being proposed that Tony Blair misled MPs.

So the candidate claiming it's about unifying the party had to try and get Corbyn to resign as she couldn't win a vote. Very unified that Angela.

We elect the leader and we elect the MPs. Do your fecking job.
 
ThierryHenry said:
Is it all the unions still backing Corbyn, or just McCluskey seemingly speaking on behalf of a huge number of different groups? It annoys me how he seems to be the sole union voice the news has been airing during this story.
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The position they've seemingly agreed on is to say that if he's going to be challenged it has to be through a ballot, whether they'd put their backing behind him in said ballot (particularly Unison and GMB) remains to be seen. Have seen suggestions that Tim Roache (GMB) isn't quite as complimentary about Corbyn in private as he is in public.

McCluskey's worried about his re-election prospects, plus he's good friends with Karie Murphy, one of Corbyn's key aides, who was also incidentally the person that kicked off the whole Falkirk debacle a couple of years back that lead to the election system in place now.
 
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