Since 2009 the UK's voting record in GEs, EEs and referendums reads Tory, Tory, UKIP, Tory, Brexit, Tory, UKIP. Based on that, I fundamentally doubt the UK's ability to vote in its own self-interests. Or, in other words, I think your country is fundamentally fecked politically. That's why I think Johnson will win the next election. The Labour infighting just heightens the pre-existing sense of woe.
Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)
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Since 2009 the UK's voting record in GEs, EEs and referendums reads Tory, Tory, UKIP, Tory, Brexit, Tory, UKIP. Based on that, I fundamentally doubt the UK's ability to vote in its own self-interests. Or, in other words, I think your country is fundamentally fecked politically. That's why I think Johnson will win the next election. The Labour infighting just heightens the pre-existing sense of woe.
No one is gonna argue with that one.
I think Johnson is considerably worse than May at appealing to the country and I think he has considerably worse problems in his party than May had. I don't think Labour are more disjointed than they were in 2017.
Not sure the optics are great for Labour as such - but it's admittedly a bit silly that Watson's stayed in such a senior role for so long when he's regularly undermining Corbyn. If he had no actual plans of mounting a leadership challenge and no real mechanism to remove Corbyn, it's hard to really see why he was continuing in his role except for the fact that it afforded him convenient power.
If they're simply abolishing the office though, then I don't think that looks good at all. May be a pretty pointless role but simply getting rid of it because the elected guy you don't like happens the hold the post certainly isn't going to give you a good look.
If they're simply abolishing the office though, then I don't think that looks good at all. May be a pretty pointless role but simply getting rid of it because the elected guy you don't like happens the hold the post certainly isn't going to give you a good look.
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It's all very 1917
Between the general electorate not having a taste for Corbyn and the infighting in Labour, yep.
Only way I could see the infighting being a serious issue is if Momentum decide not to bother campaigning for MP's who don't want them in the party and instead focus their efforts on candidates who represent them but I don't see that happening. I think they'll campaign vigorously in every seat that's up for grabs.
No one over the age of 40 liking Corbyn feels more of an issue to me.
That last statement is not exactly true though is it. Not in my personal experience at least.
A man wakes up in The Grand hotel in Brighton to tell us that voting on whether he should keep his position is a 'sectarian attack'.
feck him.
I think there's a lot more people in that boat than Labour realise. Or seemingly even care about.
Lessons are never learned.
Seemingly not!
Preston is a safe Labour seat anyway, so they won't miss my vote. I'll probably vote Greens.
Or maybe I'll just stand as an independent and vote for myself.
If there is another hung Parliament (and I don't see how there won't be) I really hope we have another look at FTPT and ditch it in favour of PR.
It's a tough argument for anyone to make that the party shouldn't get rid of Watson. Never a big deal when the Tories make a change but for Labour it's always a meltdown apparently.
I would like Benn or Cooper brought in to the shadow cabinet role to appease the centrists though. Agree or disagree with their general voting history they've both done good work on brexit. Far more than Watson has done at any point ever.
I would like Benn or Cooper brought in to the shadow cabinet role to appease the centrists though. Agree or disagree with their general voting history they've both done good work on brexit. Far more than Watson has done at any point ever.
21% in the polls, 3rd place behind the Lib Dem’s, and the leader labour wants to remove is..... Tom Watson. You lot deserve the electoral beating that’s coming to you.
I’m fairly sure I’ve seen you bring up “within the margin of error” multiple times when polling doesn’t fit your narrative?
Surely you’re not making a big deal now out of a 1% polling difference between two parties? Would seem a bit hypocritical that.
Hearing this line from multiple journos. Qyite obvious Corbyn has nothing to do with it.
Sure, his chief of staff, his comms director, the leader of Momentum, Unite reps and Diane Abbott all went along with it without Jez hearing the slightest whiff.I'm in a fairly strong Tory seat. Even then, I'm struggling with what to do if we get a GE. I'm far from the only one.
Think it's possible. He would be mental if it was a fight he thought would be good to have right now. I've long called for him to go but I think the people in his team are worse than he is.
Guardian said:
Great, stuck with a cheerleader for a con artist paedophile and man who hasn't turned up to a meeting in months or even uttered a word in the aftermath of the Ben Stokes and Gareth Thomas front pages and the widespread condemnation from elsewhere, despite his brief being the media.
But hey, he'll get plenty of media time today so maybe we'll get that apology for his role in the Carl Beech saga and him doing his fecking job for a change.
But hey, he'll get plenty of media time today so maybe we'll get that apology for his role in the Carl Beech saga and him doing his fecking job for a change.
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Well yes a slide of one percent is within the margin of error fair enough but if you want to defend Labours showing of 22 percent instead be my guest.
So the attempt to oust him brings all the negatives from the press as to the intent and broad church versus narrow Marxist cult. Then they bottle it. Losing all the benefits of getting rid of the noises off message in the coming election and opening up the competence issue which is the real killer against Corbyn.
Well done momentum, well done labour leadership, proving your critics wrong at every turn I see.
Well done momentum, well done labour leadership, proving your critics wrong at every turn I see.
Yet another example of the strength of Momentum in trying to define Labour party policy.
Tom Watson is a moderate thinker and those more proactive Momentum activists must really hate him.
Personally I like him and if he gets kicked out then Labour will be the looser.
So close yet so far away.
He hasn't turned up to NEC meetings in months. Politics aside, Watson is really shit at his job.
Not defending anything. Just pointing out the flip flopping in your logic and reasoning when it suits you. Why only bring up ‘margin of error’ when a poll doesn’t show your preferred outcome... then quote a poll like it’s fact when it shows what you want it to?
Politics aside - but he is a politician.
Even if Watson politics were similar to the Labour Left, there would still be a argument to get rid of him because well he is doing feck all.
Whenever he goes, it will be no loss to the labour party.
That’s within the margin of error with the Lib Dems, a party that was practically dead very recently. Labour are nowhere near the Tories, which is utterly humiliating given the political situation.
And none of that is relevant to my point... but go ahead.
Yeah but Tom Watson is sabotaging the party from within dontyaknow
It is. And this is why I'm going to struggle to vote for them, because in my view they are badly letting us down. The Tories are cnuts, most of us know that, but where exactly is an opposition with a spine?
Because there's a difference between quoting a poll that shows an in-margin change as evidence for an improvement in a partys position, like so many do, and quoting a poll that is evidence of a continuing flat lining of support. Sure Labour falling behind the lib Dems is within the margin of error and doesnt mean much by itself. But the fact Labour is anywhere near the lib Dems at all, this close to an election, shows how abysmally weak they are.
In what sense? Can anyone actually define what they'd be losing with Watson? He's literally spent about four years in the role of deputy leader in a party where he actively doesn't like the leader. Which is baffling - if you want to occupy a senior position like that you should be behind your leader to some extent, and if you don't want to back your leader you should leave for another party. Instead he's coasted along with the benefits that come with being deputy leader and holding a senior office while sabotaging the leadership he's working alongside at every turn. Can anyone point to what he's actually done?
The polling is fairly volatile at the moment. No party is going to be winning a majority if a GE happens in the near future because voters are so torn over Brexit.
Brexit is in fact the only thing giving the Lib Dem’s any relevance whatsoever because by offering to revoke article 50, they know they can hoover up votes from a good number of remainers. Labour are actually now criticised for not taking an extreme position on Brexit which is a slightly odd state of affairs.
The eventual outcome of a GE will largely depend on how well Labour manage to steer the conversation away from Brexit... or whether it will basically be fought as a single issue election which is certainly what the media will be pushing for.
Either way, relying on current polling doesn’t really interest me because as history shows, things can change very quickly.
I mean...on current polling the Tories will.
I think it's fairly fantastical at this point to pretend an election will be about anything other than Brexit. And I'm not sure that's desirable either: it'd be fairly nonsensical for Corbyn and co to try and put forward a platform that basically pretends the biggest issues the country's faced in decades isn't actually a thing and can be ignored. I'm sure they're aware of that by this point.
It will largely be dominated by Brexit and I am not suggesting Labour try and ignore it whatsoever. They would be stupid not to try and push their whole manifesto though because they have a policy platform that is quite popular.
Any party only caring about resolving Brexit as the only issue are making a mistake in my opinion. It’s like seeing a doctor who is only interested in trying to treat the symptoms rather than what actually caused the problem in the first place. Any serious political party should want to fix the sort of societal conditions that caused Brexit.
I don’t agree regarding the Lib Dems. Brexit has made them relevant again (although going full revoke was a high risk position), but in the wider picture they are occupying a very enviable position.
For all the accusations of them being soft Tories, the simple truth is that Britain is a majority soft conservative country. A quick look over the last 40 years of elections tells you that. Now with Labour going hard left and the Tories hard right, the Lib Dems have pretty much free rein to scoop up the centre.
That’s not to say they won’t feck it up in their normal inimitable style of course, and if either of the main parties come back to the centre too quickly then they’ll be in trouble. Right now though they have a brilliant window of opportunity, which is why I personally think their revoke position was politically stupid. The last thing they need right now is to be scaring off moderates.